Rich, poor spar at climate talks

Nov 27, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: WTOP-FM Washington

The first signs of tensions emerged at the U.N. climate talks on Tuesday as delegates from island and African nations chided rich countries for refusing to offer up new emissions cuts over the next eight years which could help stem global warming The debate mostly swirled around the Kyoto Protocol _ a legally-binding emissions cap that expires this ... (more)

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1 - 7 of 7 Comments Last updated Nov 28, 2012
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

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#1
Nov 27, 2012
 
The bureaucratic red tape issue is dead. i.e Kyoto.

Time to get a REAL comprehensive and fair solution. A 'carbon tax' with a $/Ton set by international agreement based on the effect on emissions, with each country collecting and redistributing the tax according to their own specific needs. Perhaps a rebate on income tax, or a 'per capita' rebate, etc. Maximum flexibility, doesn't penalize growing economies (as they use less fuel to begin with), fair as everyone is treated the same, and effective because it uses the markets to optimize where the maximum savings can be found.
Northie

Spokane, WA

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#2
Nov 27, 2012
 

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LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
The bureaucratic red tape issue is dead. i.e Kyoto.
Time to get a REAL comprehensive and fair solution. A 'carbon tax' with a $/Ton set by international agreement based on the effect on emissions, with each country collecting and redistributing the tax according to their own specific needs. Perhaps a rebate on income tax, or a 'per capita' rebate, etc. Maximum flexibility, doesn't penalize growing economies (as they use less fuel to begin with), fair as everyone is treated the same, and effective because it uses the markets to optimize where the maximum savings can be found.
So how do you get China and India to go along with a global carbon tax? They burn vast amounts of coal, they have enormous poverty, unstable politics, and they blame us for filling the atmosphere with carbon for 150 years. Worse, their conservative nutjobs hate the idea of world government just as much as ours do.

Not that it's a bad idea, but I'm just asking.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

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#3
Nov 27, 2012
 

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Northie wrote:
<quoted text>
So how do you get China and India to go along with a global carbon tax?
You ask them, while also getting all the other countries on board. Show me ONE piece of evidence that China will balk at a carbon tax! They already have large incentives to reduce their emissions (Remember the Olympic Games and how they shut down Beijing to keep the air clear enough to hold them?)

Plus, as a totalitarian oligarchy, they just have to order it. They don't have to contend with dissenting factionalism.
Northie wrote:
<quoted text>
They burn vast amounts of coal, they have enormous poverty, unstable politics, and they blame us for filling the atmosphere with carbon for 150 years.
But they would be charged the same 'price' as any other country so it would be 'fair'. The poor also use almost no fossil fuel power, so they would not be penalized much if any. It would boost their already sizeable lead in Solar energy for the many poorest villages (last time they had a blackout in India, the poor villages still had power from solar while the 'big towns' were dark!.

And no. Tney don't 'blame' anyone. They just want a fair balance given the the west has already emitted most of the current levels in developing THEIR economies, so they should not be penalized by suddenly clamping on fixed targets that stifle development of their economies. This would not do that.
Northie wrote:
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Worse, their conservative nutjobs hate the idea of world government just as much as ours do.
And why are you bringing up 'world government'?? Cannot get a handle on 'international agreements' or just like red herrings?
Northie wrote:
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Not that it's a bad idea, but I'm just asking.
No. You are mocking and not doing a good job of it. Must be because it isn't easy to mock good ideas effectively.

But at LEAST you must agree that it is the only possible mechanism. Complex regulatory agreements like Kyoto with fixed targets just will not work. Too many different viewpoints on regulation and too many different regulatory frameworks.
PHD

Springfield, MO

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#4
Nov 27, 2012
 
No it's the rich making the middle class poor.
litesong

Everett, WA

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#5
Nov 27, 2012
 
Northie wrote:
..... their conservative nutjobs hate the idea of world government just as much as ours do.
Not that it's a bad idea, but I'm just asking.
Yeah,,keep all the dictators in one spot..... in the U.N. AND NO, you weren't asking about world gov't.
litesong

Everett, WA

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#6
Nov 27, 2012
 
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
Show me ONE piece of evidence that China will balk at a carbon tax! They already have large incentives to reduce their emissions (Remember the Olympic Games and how they shut down Beijing to keep the air clear enough to hold them?)
Plus, as a totalitarian oligarchy, they just have to order it. They don't have to contend with dissenting factionalism.
Second-guessing totalitarian dictatorships has always been a losing battle..... especially to citizens. One hundred million murdered, tortured & starved Chinese citizens litter the history of communist chinese.......... oh, I was going to say, history books, but chinese communist history books make no mention of one hundred million murdered, tortured & starved Chinese citizens.
PHD

Bertram, TX

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#7
Nov 28, 2012
 
So how do you know they were starved and tortured.

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