"The Bakkerian Conspiracy"-WTF Cau?

"The Bakkerian Conspiracy"-WTF Cau?

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“C'mon bro, I got TIGER BLOOD”

Since: Apr 09

IN UPENDI!

#1 Aug 7, 2011
I was perusing Theropoda when I came across this article: http://translate.google.com/translate... |en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8

and then I was like "...what."

Now it may be the poor translator, but what I got from that post was Cau saying that Bakker and Paul abused their scientific "authority" and turned the public's view of dinosaurs to better suit their "vision". They did this through writing several popular books and (after being asked to do so) advising on the Jurassic Park films.

So yeah.

Its an ingenious idea. But the example he specifically cites (pack hunting theropods) was invented by Ostrom (one that is still debatable, given what we know of crocodile behavior), and in Bakker's books only mentioned in passing pack hunting. I cannot say for Paul's books, since I have never found a copy.

All of Bakker's propositions were perfectly fine for that time (in an ambiguous sort of way), and much of what they said has been proven right. To cite a few examples which were only partially wrong (ceratopsian leg posture and Tyrannosaurus speed) is kinda... stupid.

BUT that's not the heart of the problem. What Cau proposes here is essentially a conspiracy theory. Bakker was asked to advise (not as a main advisor, that was Horner's job) on JP, and he vocalized his opinions and theories (this was back when he was actually publishing, mind you) in "The Dinosaur Heresies". This does not equate to mastermind plot to force his vision of the dinosauria on the public.

And Michael Crichton based much of his specualtion off of Horner ( Dr. Grant is in fact based on Horner. If you're familiar with the 2nd book you'll see the jab Crichton took at the scavenger hypothesis). He also looked at William Stout's wonderfully illustrated "The Dinosaurs" (now "The New Dinosaurs") for inspiration. Good lord, has the conspiracy expanded? IS ALL OF PALEONTOLOGY BASED ON LIES. DOES THE CONSPIRACY GO ALL THE WAY BACK TO COPE AND MARSH?! MY GOD.

(this one's for you Al :D !

“Taste my purging steel”

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#2 Aug 7, 2011
Stygimoloch wrote:
I was perusing Theropoda when I came across this article: http://translate.google.com/translate... |en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8

and then I was like "...what."

Now it may be the poor translator, but what I got from that post was Cau saying that Bakker and Paul abused their scientific "authority" and turned the public's view of dinosaurs to better suit their "vision". They did this through writing several popular books and (after being asked to do so) advising on the Jurassic Park films.

So yeah.

Its an ingenious idea. But the example he specifically cites (pack hunting theropods) was invented by Ostrom (one that is still debatable, given what we know of crocodile behavior), and in Bakker's books only mentioned in passing pack hunting. I cannot say for Paul's books, since I have never found a copy.

All of Bakker's propositions were perfectly fine for that time (in an ambiguous sort of way), and much of what they said has been proven right. To cite a few examples which were only partially wrong (ceratopsian leg posture and Tyrannosaurus speed) is kinda... stupid.

BUT that's not the heart of the problem. What Cau proposes here is essentially a conspiracy theory. Bakker was asked to advise (not as a main advisor, that was Horner's job) on JP, and he vocalized his opinions and theories (this was back when he was actually publishing, mind you) in "The Dinosaur Heresies". This does not equate to mastermind plot to force his vision of the dinosauria on the public.

And Michael Crichton based much of his specualtion off of Horner ( Dr. Grant is in fact based on Horner. If you're familiar with the 2nd book you'll see the jab Crichton took at the scavenger hypothesis). He also looked at William Stout's wonderfully illustrated "The Dinosaurs" (now "The New Dinosaurs") for inspiration. Good lord, has the conspiracy expanded? IS ALL OF PALEONTOLOGY BASED ON LIES. DOES THE CONSPIRACY GO ALL THE WAY BACK TO COPE AND MARSH?! MY GOD.

(this one's for you Al :D !
Interesting story. Truth is some palentologists like The greatest of all Marsh, Cope, Sternberg and Ostrom made true theorys and facts. Then some tried to make fame by listing crod stuff to make fame. But people should always remember its really all about the ancient leviathans and wonderfull creatures that palentology is ment to be for, not fame.

“Taste my purging steel”

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#3 Aug 7, 2011
Giganotosaurus wrote:
<quoted text>Interesting story. Truth is some palentologists like The greatest of all Marsh, Cope, Sternberg and Ostrom made true theorys and facts. Then some tried to make fame by listing crod stuff to make fame. But people should always remember its really all about the ancient leviathans and wonderfull creatures that palentology is ment to be for, not fame.
Sorry instead of make fame 2 times the second is try to make them seem wrong.

“1337-9001”

Since: Jul 11

Just south of the South Pole

#4 Aug 7, 2011
I'm too lazy 2 read it.
3-headed Elvis clone

Fremont, CA

#5 Aug 7, 2011
But Cau PWNS EVERYTHING!

“1337-9001”

Since: Jul 11

Just south of the South Pole

#6 Aug 7, 2011
Oh yeah. He was the guy who gave me evidence of a spinosaurus killing a carcharodontosaurus.

“Taste my purging steel”

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#7 Aug 7, 2011
Nitrox wrote:
Oh yeah. He was the guy who gave me evidence of a spinosaurus killing a carcharodontosaurus.
Where, and fo you have a link to this??? How would he know if we have just about no fossils of spino??
3-headed Elvis clone

San Francisco, CA

#8 Aug 7, 2011
?
CAU PWNS EVERYTHING

Nerviano, Italy

#9 Aug 8, 2011
Stygimoloch wrote:
I was perusing Theropoda when I came across this article: http://translate.google.com/translate... |en&tbb=1&ie=UTF-8
and then I was like "...what."
Now it may be the poor translator, but what I got from that post was Cau saying that Bakker and Paul abused their scientific "authority" and turned the public's view of dinosaurs to better suit their "vision". They did this through writing several popular books and (after being asked to do so) advising on the Jurassic Park films.
So yeah.
Its an ingenious idea. But the example he specifically cites (pack hunting theropods) was invented by Ostrom (one that is still debatable, given what we know of crocodile behavior), and in Bakker's books only mentioned in passing pack hunting. I cannot say for Paul's books, since I have never found a copy.
All of Bakker's propositions were perfectly fine for that time (in an ambiguous sort of way), and much of what they said has been proven right. To cite a few examples which were only partially wrong (ceratopsian leg posture and Tyrannosaurus speed) is kinda... stupid.
BUT that's not the heart of the problem. What Cau proposes here is essentially a conspiracy theory. Bakker was asked to advise (not as a main advisor, that was Horner's job) on JP, and he vocalized his opinions and theories (this was back when he was actually publishing, mind you) in "The Dinosaur Heresies". This does not equate to mastermind plot to force his vision of the dinosauria on the public.
And Michael Crichton based much of his specualtion off of Horner ( Dr. Grant is in fact based on Horner. If you're familiar with the 2nd book you'll see the jab Crichton took at the scavenger hypothesis). He also looked at William Stout's wonderfully illustrated "The Dinosaurs" (now "The New Dinosaurs") for inspiration. Good lord, has the conspiracy expanded? IS ALL OF PALEONTOLOGY BASED ON LIES. DOES THE CONSPIRACY GO ALL THE WAY BACK TO COPE AND MARSH?! MY GOD.
(this one's for you Al :D !
I actually dont care much bout JP n everythin havin 2 do wif it...

JP is just a trash of time, like almost every fantasy movie

“1337-9001”

Since: Jul 11

Just south of the South Pole

#10 Aug 8, 2011
JP is also one of the most accurate non-documentary dinosaur film.
3-headed Elvis clone

San Francisco, CA

#11 Aug 8, 2011
Nitrox wrote:
JP is also one of the most inaccurate non-documentary dinosaur film.
Fix'd.

“1337-9001”

Since: Jul 11

Just south of the South Pole

#12 Aug 8, 2011
So, The Land Before Time was more accurate?

“Yours truly....”

Since: May 11

Perryville, Missouri

#13 Aug 8, 2011
we all know JP isnt excactly the most accurate movie out there but that doesnt mean it cant be a good movie...besides compared to 100 million years B.C., raptor island, all of the carnivore movies, and countless others the JP movies are very accurate

“1337-9001”

Since: Jul 11

Just south of the South Pole

#14 Aug 8, 2011
Exactly.

Since: Feb 11

Winnipeg, Canada

#15 Aug 8, 2011
Nitrox wrote:
So, The Land Before Time was more accurate?
Yeah cause the dinosaurs could talk :P

So much more accurate :P
3-headed Elvis clone

Palo Alto, CA

#16 Aug 8, 2011
Nitrox wrote:
So, The Land Before Time was more accurate?
Obviously, that's the only other dinosaur movie!

..........Right.

“C'mon bro, I got TIGER BLOOD”

Since: Apr 09

IN UPENDI!

#17 Aug 9, 2011
CAU PWNS EVERYTHING wrote:
<quoted text>I actually dont care much bout JP n everythin havin 2 do wif it...

JP is just a trash of time, like almost every fantasy movie
... Missed the point. Shame Al. Shame.

“1337-9001”

Since: Jul 11

Just south of the South Pole

#18 Aug 9, 2011
3-headed Elvis clone wrote:
<quoted text>
Obviously, that's the only other dinosaur movie!
..........Right.
Name one.

“Taste my purging steel”

Since: May 11

Location hidden

#19 Aug 9, 2011
CAU PWNS EVERYTHING wrote:
<quoted text>I actually dont care much bout JP n everythin havin 2 do wif it...

JP is just a trash of time, like almost every fantasy movie
Jp was a great movie, from a normal and dino fan stand point. Inaccuracies???? It was ment for intertanment, not a documentry. Dino movies is dominated by JP and docs by WWD.

“1337-9001”

Since: Jul 11

Just south of the South Pole

#20 Aug 9, 2011
I liked JP a lot. But they made t rex run way too fast in the lost world.

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