B.A.N.D Vs B.A.D.
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Isaacasaurus

Uttoxeter, UK

#1 Jan 21, 2012
Birds are not dinsoaurs Vs birds are dinosaurs. This is a very complex question.
There are many species of birds and there is speculation whether any of these species can be traced back to archaeopteryx and it's ilk. Whether any species can be crossed linked to a suspected decendant species of the dinosaur era, is also not conclusively proven.
All present day species of birds could have evovled after the dinosaur era, and have no link to archaeopteryx and its possible cousins Microraptor, and anchiornis, etc, whos decendants became extinct during or shortly after the dinosaur era.

Any genus of animal, plant, etc, that evolves in a similar environment will develop similar traits.
Consider the American Road runner,( no not Wile E Coyote's mate) whos behavioural patterns are particularly akin to a T'rex, velociraptor type. They hunt mammals, reptiles, and insects, and attack large prey like snakes together. They kill larger prey with a blow from the beak, and also by lifting their prey and smashing them against rocks. But just because they behave in a similar manner to these dinosaurs is not to say they are related.
So, Band or Bad?, it might be better to say that 'All birds are not dinosaurs, if any',= Abandia?

“DoubleTheClaw, DoubleThePain”

Since: Aug 11

Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

#2 Jan 21, 2012
I think the birds are descended from dinosaurs but not dinosaurs by definition because that's like saying we(and any vertebrae) are fish.
Tyrannosaurus Rex

Waltham, MA

#3 Jan 21, 2012
I think they may have evolved from Dinosaurs, Dinosaurs like Microraptor were VERY close related to birds. I think B.A.D
Isaacasaurus

Uttoxeter, UK

#4 Jan 21, 2012
Balaur wrote:
I think the birds are descended from dinosaurs but not dinosaurs by definition because that's like saying we(and any vertebrae) are fish.
That's a good analogy, going down this route we are all related to at least the Dino era.

“DoubleTheClaw, DoubleThePain”

Since: Aug 11

Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

#5 Jan 21, 2012
Isaacasaurus wrote:
<quoted text>
That's a good analogy, going down this route we are all related to at least the Dino era.
Yeah,all animals are related if not closely then distant.But I mean B.A.D but by definition,we don't call birds Dinosaurs,birds are birds
Tyrannosaurus Rex

Waltham, MA

#6 Jan 21, 2012
Technically, birds are Dinosaurs though.
Isaacasaurus

UK

#7 Jan 21, 2012
Tyrannosaurus Rex wrote:
Technically, birds are Dinosaurs though.
Not necessarily that's the whole point of this thread!

“DoubleTheClaw, DoubleThePain”

Since: Aug 11

Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

#8 Jan 21, 2012
Well,for evidence,it's 10:30 PM here is I'm already sleepy and lazy to post any evidence,could somebody do the honors,I'll post some tomorow

Since: Feb 11

Brandon, Canada

#9 Jan 21, 2012
Kind of like what Balaur said earlier, birds are dinosaurs but not non-avian dinosaurs. Saying birds are dinosaurs is like saying marsupials and Monotremes are the same, they are both mammals but of a different group.

Since: Feb 11

Brandon, Canada

#10 Jan 21, 2012
Isaacasaurus wrote:
<quoted text>
Not necessarily that's the whole point of this thread!
Birds and dinosaurs share almost every basic trait with each other, birds have even been added to a clade of dinosaurs called Maniraptora.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maniraptora

“Yours truly....”

Since: May 11

Perryville, Missouri

#11 Jan 21, 2012
I second what Mattking and Balaur said.
Tyrannosaurus Rex

Waltham, MA

#12 Jan 21, 2012
Wut?

“Yours truly....”

Since: May 11

Perryville, Missouri

#13 Jan 21, 2012
I agree with Mattking and Balaur
Tyrannosaurus Rex

Waltham, MA

#14 Jan 21, 2012
I see, possibly me too.
Isaacasaurus

UK

#15 Jan 22, 2012
Mattking rex wrote:
<quoted text>
Birds and dinosaurs share almost every basic trait with each other, birds have even been added to a clade of dinosaurs called Maniraptora.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maniraptora
I covered this in the initial posting,
Quote: Any genus of animal, plant, etc, that evolves in a similar environment will develop similar traits.

This does not necessarily mean they evolved from.
And it is only speculation that, Quote: birds have even been added to a clade of dinosaurs called Maniraptora.
mattking

Brandon, Canada

#16 Jan 22, 2012
Isaacasaurus wrote:
<quoted text>
I covered this in the initial posting,
Quote: Any genus of animal, plant, etc, that evolves in a similar environment will develop similar traits.
This does not necessarily mean they evolved from.
And it is only speculation that, Quote: birds have even been added to a clade of dinosaurs called Maniraptora.
Birds have not evolved any trait that suggest they should be give their own class. Birds do have there own distinct group, yes, however there basic structure shows no difference other then evolving to fly.
Perhaps the relation with birds and dinosaurs isn't as direct as some suggest. Perhaps birds are just as much dinosaurs as mammals are still synapsids. Early avians still showed unquie characteristics making them different from modern birds. Perhaps birds like Iberomesornis were similar to how Adelobasileus is a proto-mammal; its not quite a mammal but its part of the overall group "Synapsids".
Conclusion: Birds are dinosaurs but not non-avian dinosaurs. kind of like mammals are synapsids but not non-mammalian synapsids like Therapsids, etc.
Isaacasaurus

UK

#17 Jan 22, 2012
mattking wrote:
<quoted text>
Birds have not evolved any trait that suggest they should be give their own class. Birds do have there own distinct group, yes, however there basic structure shows no difference other then evolving to fly.
Perhaps the relation with birds and dinosaurs isn't as direct as some suggest. Perhaps birds are just as much dinosaurs as mammals are still synapsids. Early avians still showed unquie characteristics making them different from modern birds. Perhaps birds like Iberomesornis were similar to how Adelobasileus is a proto-mammal; its not quite a mammal but its part of the overall group "Synapsids".
Conclusion: Birds are dinosaurs but not non-avian dinosaurs. kind of like mammals are synapsids but not non-mammalian synapsids like Therapsids, etc.
There is excellent logic in you're analysis, and I freely admit that present day scientific opinion does shine its light on a link between present day birds and these 'avian dinosaurs'.
But the crux is the evidence of this link, and as it stands today, it is not definitive.
The second part of you conclusion draws a very good theory and it is to be argued as to what level it can be held. If it gains strength it could conclude a link, but if it loses strength it would refute it.
I am still not convinced of a nexus with present day birds beyond the fact that everything in to days world has drawn its existence from the past.
Crazy Chicken

Cockermouth, UK

#18 Jan 23, 2012
birds are dinosaurs, period.
the house sparrow is part of the definition of dinosauria
its not like us being called fish at all, but like us and fish being called animals, or being called invertabrates.
Isaacasaurus

UK

#19 Jan 23, 2012
Crazy Chicken wrote:
birds are dinosaurs, period.
the house sparrow is part of the definition of dinosauria
its not like us being called fish at all, but like us and fish being called animals, or being called invertabrates.
Basically there are 'gaps' in fossil records, and the only evidence to bridge these 'gaps' is based on the overall origins of flight, and the familiarity of todays birds with certain types of Dino's,
In the first instance,(flight) can obviously develop where ever the need arises, as it can equally regress. As in the Kiwi, Emu, and perhaps the Penguin.
In the second instance familiarity is not definitive. A creature that lives in a similar environment and follows a similar behavioral pattern of survival is not conclusive proof of a link.
Tyrannosaurus Rex

Waltham, MA

#20 Jan 23, 2012
I agree with Mattking and Isaacasaurus.

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