Dinosaurs In The Paleocene!?!?

[Paleoworld-101]

The idea that some dinosaurs survived the K-T extinction event (technically now the K-P extinction event)interests me greatly. Fossils HAVE been found of dinosaurs ABOVE the layer that represents the extinction event (some isolated bones). Most have dismissed them as re-worked fossils, but i think it is possible they could be genuine Paleocene dinosaurs.

Oh and, technically, when did the Paleocene begin? The moment the Asteroid hit the earth? The moment earth started to recover from the cataclysm, years after the impact? Because if it began the moment the Asteroid hit the ground, then there WERE Paleocene dinosaurs for at least a few weeks.

Also, some dinosaurs were adapted to cold and dark conditions for long periods of time (such as the polar dinosaurs found in Australia, featured in the 5th episode of "Walking With Dinosaurs"). Is it possible they could have survived the extinction slightly longer than other dinosaurs around the world? Long enough to be in the Paleocene? Australia it seems could be a promising place to find Paleocene dinosaurs, yay!

I really hope however that more substantial evidence is found to show they lived into the Paleocene. A whole, articulated skeleton would be undeniable proof. Imagine that, Dinosaurs could have existed in 4 periods! The Triassic, Jurassic, Cretaceous and Paleogene!

What do you guys think???????? Do you beleive in Paleogene/Paleocene dinosaurs??????????

[mapusaurus rex 1]

yes i do, they found a hadrosaurid bone 700000 years after the K-T boundary. being such a successful group, i believe that it is likely that non-avian dinosaurs might have survived in to the Paleogene, but would not b as large. perhaps Gastornis is actually a bird-like theropod. the PETM may have wiped the last non- avian dinosaurs from the earth. as the plant eating dinosaurs died off in the PETM and/or out competition from mammals. the terror birds would have survived and were top predators in south america for another 55 million years.

[Edaphosaurus]

They also found some triceratops teeth dated 64 million years ago. Many scientists flag this off as an accident and a movement in sediment but I hope they are wrong.

[Illiterate Scholar]

The 700,000 year thing could be a mistake in the way the method works. I don't completely trust it. That said, animals have survived long after their so dinosaurs surviving an extra 700,000 really isn't that unbelievable.

[mapusaurus rex 1]

the last non-avian dinosaurs may have died off in the PETM.

[Nitrox]

There were test of a hadrosaur bone and it proved to be only 2 dozen or less thousand years old.

[Paleoworld-101]

Nitrox wrote:

There were test of a hadrosaur bone and it proved to be only 2 dozen or less thousand years old.

Less than 24 000 years old? That's obviously wrong.

[Paleoworld-101]

mapusaurus rex 1 wrote:

yes i do, they found a hadrosaurid bone 700000 years after the K-T boundary. being such a successful group, i believe that it is likely that non-avian dinosaurs might have survived in to the Paleogene, but would not b as large. perhaps Gastornis is actually a bird-like theropod. the PETM may have wiped the last non- avian dinosaurs from the earth. as the plant eating dinosaurs died off in the PETM and/or out competition from mammals. the terror birds would have survived and were top predators in south america for another 55 million years.

Why would the dinosaurs have died off in the PETM? They liked hot/tropical climates. Oh and technically Gastornis is a dinosaur anyway.

[Tyranna2]

We have covered this before, but here we go...

More than 60% of life on Earth was destroyed after the Chicxulub impact, we are not talking about extinction so much as a switch of, of life, in only hours of impact.
This comet, was a rock, or ice ball, its cross section would match the city of San Francisco.
If it rested on the surface of the Earth it would actually be taller than Mt Everest, and it's volume would be the same as all the buildings in the entire United States.
It hit the earth at something like 150 times faster than a Jet plane.

Environmental disasters ensued, tremendous shockwaves shook the planet, along with Super huricane winds.
Then followed mountain high sunami's, thousands of miles across engulfing continents, and clashing with each other.
The massive explosion, blasted out through the atmosphere, vaporized impactor and debris, falling back to Earth all around the globe.
Continental wild fires, darkness and cold, caused by world wide cloud cover, ensued.

Forest fires, and massive earth quakes, polluted the atmosphere.
Not for weeks, months or even years but for centuries!
The earth still has a wobble of its axis,(the procession of the equinoxes) which takes 26.000 years to complete.

The time span this event took place, the strike and the consequences, was measured in hours. And so were the lives of the Dinosaurs. Etc.
This event devastated the whole planet.

Ref/links: Luis + Walter Alvarez, Dr. R. Muller, Emmanuel Velikovsky, to name but a few!

If any Dinosaurs survived this, they would have lasted only days, months at the most.

No there were no Paleocene Dinosaurs.
Those who believe so do not comprehend the enormity of this one impact.
Which btw was accompanied by other impacts before and after the event, in a couple of million year time period, but not as devastating.

.

[Paleoworld-101]

Tyranna2 wrote:

If any Dinosaurs survived this, they would have lasted only days, months at the most.
No there were no Paleocene Dinosaurs.
Those who believe so do not comprehend the enormity of this one impact.
Which btw was accompanied by other impacts before and after the event, in a couple of million year time period, but not as devastating.
.

Certainly puts things into perspective BUT another of my questions was when exactly did the Paleocene start? Saying the Cretaceous ended 65.5 mya and the Paleocene started 65.5 mya doesn't give an exact moment. If it started the exact moment the asteroid hit the ground then dinosaurs would have lived in the first few days/months of the Paleocene. If it began once the cataclysym totally ended (as you said, smaller bombardments after the major one) and the skies cleared some thousand or so years later then yes dinosaurs wouldn't have made it to the Paleocene. I still think Australian polar dinosaurs adaptations to cold climates may have kept them alive slightly longer, assuming the land they lived in wasn't taken out by a tidal wave or firestorm.

[Tyranna2]

Paleoworld-101 wrote:

<quoted text>
Certainly puts things into perspective BUT another of my questions was when exactly did the Paleocene start? Saying the Cretaceous ended 65.5 mya and the Paleocene started 65.5 mya doesn't give an exact moment. If it started the exact moment the asteroid hit the ground then dinosaurs would have lived in the first few days/months of the Paleocene. If it began once the cataclysym totally ended (as you said, smaller bombardments after the major one) and the skies cleared some thousand or so years later then yes dinosaurs wouldn't have made it to the Paleocene. I still think Australian polar dinosaurs adaptations to cold climates may have kept them alive slightly longer, assuming the land they lived in wasn't taken out by a tidal wave or firestorm.

An instant mass extinction like this draws a definitive line, where one era ends and another begins.
But still there is a time of translation from one era to the next.
Technically I would say that once the change was complete, was the beginning of the next era. Defining the very moment is impossible, it depends on what factors you choose to calculate.
Climate, life forms, plant life etc.
IMO one of these factors would be when all the Dino's died.