Science, religion and the problem of evil

In the interview and in his latest book, Darwin’s Gift to Science and Religion, Ayala correctly points out that one of the many problems with the idea of Intelligent Design is that there is plenty of evidence that the universe isn’t well designed at all (this, of course, is not a new observation: both David Hume and Charles Darwin based their critique of the design argument on it).

[Cash]

The problem of 'evil' is a conundrum for both sides, of course. In evolution people who are evil - or exploiters - should either overwhelm altruists or be eliminated. Instead we have a middle ground a way of trying to explain it - but no real answers.

[truthist]

I had swept that NYT interview of Ayala under the rug of the physical world, when I read it. Of course, there's an assumption on my part that the man's words were well-represented in front of us.

I would think honesty is the best policy at all times.

[Rizbold]

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I think your kinda right there Cash, I've often wondered if the process of evolving into different aouror's in life weather it be with humans or single celled living things or if weve been created or not is due to the brain wave power that is created, we know it must cause our dna to evolve and change but we as humans do create energy and therefor a mental energy is transposed too. Along with those actions it has to cause a reaction in any species it comes into contact with and nuetrally but still recognized by who or what it effected. I think when it happens we evolve continously amd if that mentall energy is poor or not present we evolve poorly or not at all and so do the other things around us.

[practicing human]

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Cash wrote:

The problem of 'evil' is a conundrum for both sides, of course. In evolution people who are evil - or exploiters - should either overwhelm altruists or be eliminated. Instead we have a middle ground a way of trying to explain it - but no real answers.

...but the "idea" of evil is relative...one humans evil may be another's salvation depending on whose side of the conflict you are on....we humans can only interpret what we think we see...the actions of the nature around us are what they are independent of how we categorize the observance...perhaps there are no real answers for the simple reason that the real answers lie outside the vocabulary of out thought processes....this does not stop the real answers from existing...just because we can't see them doesn’t stop them from being....
I love the statement about the universe not being very well designed at all...sounds like the world has gone "flat" again....oh well...
religion and science have a lot in common...they both attempt to answer questions outside their capabilities....while I see both as very rigid..I think science at least is less so...remember the many many things that science of its day said could not exist....but did...and of course with religions ...well closing your eyes has never been an effective learning tool
...

[lightish]

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Order can be seen when one honestly seeks the truth.

One might accuse the skeptic for 'not seeing the forest for the trees'.

Check out:
"Darwin's Blac Box", by Michael Behe
"The Battle for Truth", by David Noebel
"Total Truth", by Nancy Pearcey

Truth can "set you free" Jn 8:31

[BEAN]

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Its all BS..we ,us, in this short time frame of existence, dream up something called good..evil.no such thing in nature or in the universe.
A snake goes in a nest of fledging birds and swallows them down alive...thats evil.A steer is slaughtered for "Porter House Steaks" and thats good!

A guy gets hung for stealing bread,he is evil,the people who hang him, they are good..

Throw in religion and it gets confused.In the name of some Yaahoo! go do good! or is it evil??

Currently we have rules,mans rules.Subject to change and interruption.

Our Constitution trys to establish these rules. If left alone it may work,and it has.

Others have rules too...like "Barbie dolls" are evil!!...they believe that as surly as we believe in our concept of good or evil

Its a matter of which side of your brain your using! LOL!! some people believe that to.They are called "NUTS"..ask Da preacher,our side of the brain is evil,their side of the brain is good!!LOL!!!

Like the Straw Man in the Wizard of OZ..."If I only had A brain"..he was better off without one!

[lightish]

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ninetailedfox wrote:

Tibetian Buddhism and science go hand in hand. Christianity and science usually conflict.

It depends upon who's science and who's Christianity.(and who's interpretting the interaction)

[JEANNIE]

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There was nothing. Then there was a Big Bang and a universe came into being, complete with everything needed for everything that is. Where did the empty space come from, into which the universe is expanding?
Explain.

[menachem nachshon]

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it's a good thing water figured out that it should float when it begins to freeze or we wouldn't be here having this conversation. wonder how long it took and how many times did it fail before getting it right? also, since it was a group of people in a desert that wrote the Bible, how did they come up with the indications of certain animals being permissible to eat? there are 4 named that have 1 or the other signs so i find it interesting that since the Bible was written about 3500 years ago, the people who wrote it guessed pretty good considering they knew nothing about the other continents. how is it that man has never found a 5th animal with 1 or the other signs?

[lightish]

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Please!

Everything gets confused when we blame all Chritianity for the failings of a few. I could no more truthfully make statement covering what all Darwin-ists, Marxists, Atheists believe.

Qualify whom you wish to impugn.

In it's most basic form christianity is about a personal relationship between an individual and their Creator. It's mankind's religions that make most of the rules and judgements.

[benny]

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That Ayala doesn't want to come right out and side with the atheist point of view, I can understand. I always been of the opinion that many religious priests and other have probably evenually realized that there is no there there, but what are going to do change careers at 50 or 60?

[BibleThumper]

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To fully comprehend, or vaguely understand as to 'see through a mirror darkly, one must accept the premise that sin exists.

It is this sin that is carried by every person that corrupts the perfect creation and causes man to accept evil as good. Anything that is anti God (anti Christ) is evil.

Given that the Creator has limited Himself to being only acceptable of the perfect, He causes life to end at a preset time, some more some less, and provides a method of escape from the eternal death to which he prescribes the one convicted of sin.

This perfect sacrifice is no other than the perfect creator who takes upon Himself the total punishment of sin and asks only that we, you, have faith to receive his pardon.

I submit that all that is good and perfect comes from Jesus and all that is corrupt and imperfect is caused by Satan, but praise God even us imperfect persons can receive his goodness.

To the wise of this world, the foolishness of preaching is garbage. To the perfect Creator, the wisdom of this world is garbage ("filthy rags"):.

It's yours, ours, to choose!

Lord forgive me for my lack of Bible Thumpin', but all that I am comes from you and your word.

[regis]

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Thew Universe, life, how we got here, etc. can't be explained by Darwinism eihter. There has not been enough time for things to have come to pass as they presently are. Even Darwin acknowlegded a Creator. Unfortunatley that was edited out of his "Origin of Species" by modernists of the time. You know the modernists. Marx, Lenin, Freud, Jung, Meade, Darwin, etc. Those 19th century anti-Christian socialists and communists of a hundred years ago... most of whom have been discredited long ago. Yet our post-modern acadames and politicians cling to their outdated, out-moded world views, thinking that if we just try again we can get it right this time.

[formally abducted]

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WE humans are an evolutionary work in progress,I wonder what humans three million years from now will say when they read our archives about intelligent design and evil as they measure our skulls and study our belief systems and come across the most intelligent little known theory of our time,written by nine tail fox 'the theory of stupid design'. thank you nine tail,you have restored my sanity.

[Daniel]

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Let's Face It.......You either Look toward Man or you Look toward GOD! You Look toward Man, you get Corruption and Death. You Look toward GOD, you get Salvation and Life......Your Choice!

[bloodyvisigoths]

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JEANNIE wrote:

There was nothing. Then there was a Big Bang and a universe came into being, complete with everything needed for everything that is. Where did the empty space come from, into which the universe is expanding?
Explain.

First, there was Darkness. And then the Goddess tore through the darkness, and looked around to see nothing. And She was lonely. So She gave birth to Her Consort, Her Lover, Her Partner. Together, they copulated and achieved the Grand Cosmic Orgasm (the Big Bang--get it?) and from this Cosmic Orgasm sprang life and existence and everything else, all throughout the entire Universe.

And the next morning, hung over after a night of booze and sex, the Goddess and Her Consort looked at each other and asked in dismay, "Holy crap, what have we done?"

Because with the advent of organized religion, it's been goin' downhill ever since.

[workerbeedrone]

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JEANNIE wrote:

There was nothing. Then there was a Big Bang and a universe came into being, complete with everything needed for everything that is. Where did the empty space come from, into which the universe is expanding?
Explain.

Who knows? But you have to start somewhere. I'm guessing you're suggesting God must have made the universe? Then who made God?
Explain.

[cobra]

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*** Google(www.ufodigest.com ):
- Enigmatic Fossils - Darwin on Trial
- Journey to the Centre of the Earth
- Astronauts of Antiquity
- Talking to the Gods
- The Bible and the Invisible UFOs, etc.
*** Details in the book "Planet Eris and the Global Warming" (can be found at Amazon)
*** http://www.australia.to/story/0,25197,2304046...

[my left foot]

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JEANNIE wrote:

There was nothing. Then there was a Big Bang and a universe came into being, complete with everything needed for everything that is. Where did the empty space come from, into which the universe is expanding?
Explain.

Try to pick the right science . Evolution is not concerned with the origins of being or the origins of the universe . Evolution is concerned only with how we've evolved since it all came about and because of it we are starting to flourish in the study. We are on the right track, because religion is hocus pocus. God's , ghosts , angels and the like can't be seen so in reality, at least the one I live in, they are not there....They represent supernatural majick!!

[my left foot]

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workerbeedrone wrote:

<quoted text>
Who knows? But you have to start somewhere. I'm guessing you're suggesting God must have made the universe? Then who made God?
Explain.

The overly inflated ego's of men make up god(s) by the score . They would like to be looked upon as the ultimate intelligence of life and not just another DNA/RNA sample. That is why , on these boards, they are quick to point out that they are not descendants of chimpanzee's . When I agree with them and offer them the real Darwin explanation many of them disappear or change there m.o. because once understood they realize that their embarrassment overwhelms them.