Intelligent Design: Coming To A State Legislature Near You

[Tinka]

PoKay1kaDuB wrote:

<quoted text>That'll work too. Maybe that's the only thing that will work

Alright...something very strange..
DO I question everything no I do not..because if I were to question everything I would surely have to go out of my mind..that is why my faith lies in the un-known..it is a soothing comfort..It gives me great hope that something great is around the corner..
I had noticed my spelling error of grow ....and surely could have sworn I changed it...
Maybe my mind's work is in another dimension..or it ought to be...

[Easter Bunny]

PoKay1kaDuB wrote:

<quoted text>Uh, sorry but this is NO explanation of the existence or the "coming to be" of the universe. Time may disappear mathematically, but it is a man made idea, and it doesn't explain in reality whether the universe "always was" or whether it had a beginning. There is NO rational explanation and you know it, don't try to act like there is. Even if this disappearance of time showed that the universe never had a beginning, which seems the more probable idea, it doesn't mean we can as humans understand the reality of it. What MichiganGel is saying is that we cannot begin to understand the beginning or the "ever was" of the universe, so there is no reason to TOTALLY exclude a higher power. The origin of the universe is quite out of physical reach and physical explanation, at least in the predictable future.

Okay, so I've heard all you ID-ers talking about how we cannot know about things like pre-Bang and before time, etc. You speak of this stuff as unknowable, then you come back later with likes that come off like this:

Let me share with you all my knowledge about the (WAIT......FOR...IT) unknowable.

[Tinka]

Yes, it must be so..
I'll have to come up with my own formulars I believe..

[Easter Bunny]

Kong_ wrote:

<quoted text>
As a guy, I cant get pregnant.
But I AM a carrier!

Okay dude, what ya sayin'?

[PoKay1kaDuB]

MichiganGEL wrote:

<quoted text>
Good to hear from a "soulmate"!
Since you have experience in polymer chemistry, I have to ask if you're familiar with Gerald Schroeder's "Latent Library" hypothesis (cf his book The Science of God), wherein all the DNA required for *all* subsequent life forms was included in the first single-celled life form.
Also, what about the wonder expressed by the development of a nylon-eating "bug"... Does that "prove" evolution?

Chemically, I fail to see how abiogenesis could work, and I fail to see how further complexity could continue after that. So at first I would actually think this theory might be at least interesting. IF it were true, it still gives no real insight into answering our dilema, because as you said it just moves the question of origin back a notch, but the question remains. The same questions of directed vs random would apply. This would it seems be an arguement for Design I would think, because in the reference of the age of the universe, the information would be complete, and deep time wouldn't have been available to randomly develop it. Then of course they will argue that somehow this random organization was a result of the big bang somehow or something equally as rediculous. There is however one arguement against such a theory, and that would be if the universe "always was", then this could be a sign of random engineering. But of course, the universe can best be explained by an "always was" state, but it seems a far stretch to assume that the expansion of matter will EVER reverse itself. So "always was" is not a very concrete assumption at all. Just good guesses, all of them
AS far as nylon eating proving evolution, my answer is no way. These are all examples of microevolution in my book. But I'm not a biologist

[Easter Bunny]

TheGavin wrote:

Tinka wrote:

<quoted text>
Well if you say so it must be true..

A good bet.

[Nettiebelle]

PoKay1kaDuB wrote:

<quoted text>Hey Nettie, hope you're doin alright
these evolutionists are really starting to rub off on you, you are talking like them now.
That would be fine with me as long as they take abiogenesis and the theory of evolution from a first lifeform to complex life with them. Look at it this way. A religious viewpoint is more like, "a creator called Yahweh created the universe in six days and then sent down these ten commandments, and then sent down the words of the Bible for you to live your life by". Mosquitos, salmon, monkeys, or any other animal don't need commandments to know what to do to survive. ID is not any more religious than abiogenesis, when you mention abiogenesis you mention ID, simple as that. That's all that is asked. ID is not telling anyone about commandments, it is just a specific way of admitting we don't have a physical explanation for the universe.

Adrian, what I have learned is that the theory of evolution does not prove or deny Creation, it is concerned with what happened after. I am speaking as both a parent and grandparent, Adrian, there are plenty of people who really would prefer to teach their own beliefs to their own kids, and to me, ID is referring to religion.

[Tinka]

Easter Bunny wrote:

<quoted text>
Okay, so I've heard all you ID-ers talking about how we cannot know about things like pre-Bang and before time, etc. You speak of this stuff as unknowable, then you come back later with likes that come off like this:
Let me share with you all my knowledge about the (WAIT......FOR...IT) unknowable.

I am not going to speak of my experiences again..I don't think..
But, I didn't need a formular for it..I didn't need to sit and go over who knows how many variables in order to have come to the knowledge that I aquired...
To many it's an untrue event..it can't be explained so..therefor it must not be...it can't be true...only because the believe is not there...that's my oppinion...

[Tinka]

Opinion...man it's like an onion..with a pi in the middle....

[shinningelectr0n]

chipfle wrote:

<quoted text>Another creIDiot fundy runaway.

And another peanut from the gallery. Close your mechanical fabric joiner and sit down, boy.

[PoKay1kaDuB]

MichiganGEL wrote:

<quoted text>
Do you think that somewhere in that "junk DNA" a "Latent Library" could be hiding (as per Gerald Schroeder)?
If it is in the universe's nature to create a few freaks, why not go whole hog and include enough information/DNA to have all the basic life forms appear at the right time - as conditions warrant?
...Or even at subsea sulfur vents!!

This I think a group like Ventor, could figure out at some point. They have so many millions of "sequences" in stock that you would think it would be relatively easy for them to interperet the junk DNA. Perhaps this accessible information will never be made public because it will allow ID an entrance.

[Tinka]

Easter Bunny wrote:

TheGavin wrote:
<quoted text>
A good bet.

I think if we indeed used all of our brain...I surely could and would be a pro in the field of math..
No doubt about it..
I think in general we either already would be living in paradise..or surely would have on the other hand accomplished a more advanced science...There still is just too much guessing trial and error...

[Tinka]

PoKay1kaDuB wrote:

<quoted text>Chemically, I fail to see how abiogenesis could work, and I fail to see how further complexity could continue after that. So at first I would actually think this theory might be at least interesting. IF it were true, it still gives no real insight into answering our dilema, because as you said it just moves the question of origin back a notch, but the question remains. The same questions of directed vs random would apply. This would it seems be an arguement for Design I would think, because in the reference of the age of the universe, the information would be complete, and deep time wouldn't have been available to randomly develop it. Then of course they will argue that somehow this random organization was a result of the big bang somehow or something equally as rediculous. There is however one arguement against such a theory, and that would be if the universe "always was", then this could be a sign of random engineering. But of course, the universe can best be explained by an "always was" state, but it seems a far stretch to assume that the expansion of matter will EVER reverse itself. So "always was" is not a very concrete assumption at all. Just good guesses, all of them
AS far as nylon eating proving evolution, my answer is no way. These are all examples of microevolution in my book. But I'm not a biologist

Time that's how far I read and it started ticking..tick tack tick tack..
Now my head is swaying...oh no..now to a beat...
tick tack tick tackkkky tee tack......

Pretty much all we live by are inventions, man made rules...
Even time...time has no real meaning other to clock in and clock out...
The clocking out is what I have issues with..not that it seems scary..but I think it just seems people shouldn't have to just because some Genius invented time..

[Tinka]

If time would have never been an issue to begin with...
It could have really already been mastered...for it never had to become an obstacle...we could have worked on everything without time...
Just think the time we could have saved????

Just goofing...

[Tinka]

Tinka wrote:

Opinion...man it's like an onion..with a pi in the middle....

My personal input to this onion...IS...
It's early but I guess my napping left me a little dingy headed....

[Tinka]

Well I am stepping out I guess...
Night

[Easter Bunny]

Tinka wrote:

<quoted text>
I think if we indeed used all of our brain...I surely could and would be a pro in the field of math..
No doubt about it..
I think in general we either already would be living in paradise..or surely would have on the other hand accomplished a more advanced science...There still is just too much guessing trial and error...

As far as I can tell, the only way we're NOT using all of our brains is that we're letting rationality get restricted by religion. In that sense, I agree that the world could be almost nirvana-like if we could remove that barrier.

[Tinka]

Oooooo, stepping out of the cyberworld....staring at my screen...I think one of theeee geratest inventions yet...

[Easter Bunny]

Speaking of nightmares, last night I had a dream about Microsoft Excel. I started out in macro-bliss, but I ended in DLL-Hell.

[Easter Bunny]

I asked my therapist to help me explain my dream. First, I was dreaming that I was a pup-tent. Then, it changed and I was a tee-pee. Then it went back to a pup-tent. I kept going back and forth.

Then the therapist replied: "Oh that's easy. Your too tense!"

(from Dr. Katz)