Intelligent Design: Coming To A State Legislature Near You

[Easter Bunny]

MichiganGEL wrote:

<quoted text>
No one denies the importance of the continued advancement of genetic science in medical research. But how would that science suffer if it should turn out that an Intelligent Designer was involved in abiogenesis, say?
Does that research depend on a belief in "goo-to-you" evolution?
No, because it is only what can be produced, observed and replicated in the lab or field that results in new cancer treatments, etc.
Like Newton, I don't see any danger in positing a creator behind it all. If anything, it brings new respect for life and its preservation!

It only brings respect if it is true. Otherwise, it's about the most extreme disrespect one could offer.

[Easter Bunny]

LWsciencejunkie wrote:

<quoted text>
Oh, yeah...My dad and I are both insomniac's insomniacs, but have never had a weight problem. We both have (no $hit-its in the DSM) "nightmare disorder". Bigtime, and none of our dreams ever have anything to do with past trauma.

Sounds familiar. If I could take a pill and never have another dream, I'd take it. On balance, they're waaay past not-worth-it.

[LWsciencejunkie]

C Hamilton wrote:

<quoted text>Ok, as PM's live-in girlfriend I can tell you that I have no problem with his crush on LW. HOWEVER, I draw the line at him starting relationships with other men. Sorry 'bout that. I'm just not that kinky. LMAO!!!

And to think I was developing a crush on you!

[over-eazy-under- pressure]

The Dude wrote:

So nobody still has come up with a testable scientific "theory" for ID yet? No?
Shocked I say. Shocked.

ID, wasn't ever DESIGNED to be a "TESTABLE scientific theory"....It is DESIGNED to deceive the masses into "believing" that God is an extended and certified NWO Wizard who occasionally hang-out with "fellow, ALL-CARING and HEROIC, galactic aliens".

And to also, erase the word, "God", from the lexicon of our conscious & subconscious.

"I could WRONG, but, I don't think so."

[LWsciencejunkie]

Katydid wrote:

<quoted text>
Genetic science would not suffer at all, because it is based on biological evolution, not abiogenesis. If you believe that the Creator or Intelligent Designer was involved in abiogenesis that is your right. Right now there are several very plausible hypotheses of abiogenesis.
Again though abiogenesis has nothing to do with the facts and theory of evolution.
Believing in something is not using the scientific method and therefore has no place in a high school bio, honors bio or AP bio class.
I judge the science fair about every other year, looking at the research that has made it to the state level. These kids are in 9-12 grade and fortunately, or unfortunately, depending upon your perspective, understand the scientific method more thoroughly than many of the posters on TOPIX that will not accept the ToE.
<quoted text>
Our research depends on biological evolution, yes.
<quoted text>
Unlike ID, the mutations that drive biological evolution employ mechanisms that we are able to observe. One is the mechanism of transposons, another is retroelements.
Once a mutation is established in DNA it is perpetuated each time the DNA molecule replicates, so the mutation is passed from generation to generation.
When transposable elements slip into the gene it will cause a mutation and usually eliminate the gene’s function, when this element slips back out the gene’s original function is restored. This transposable element can now go and insert itself into another gene and if it does, it will cause a new mutation there. So you can have stable mutations and mutations caused by transposable elements.
Transposons are cut-and-paste transposable elements and retroelements are copy-and-paste transposable elements (makes a RNA copy of itself, the RNA copy is then “recopied” back into DNA and the DNA copy then inserts itself at a new position).

I love judging the science fairs! I do about 3 to 5 every year. I don't even mind being social for once. The problem is that I think all the projects are either cool or the kids are so adorable and earnest that I fail to be very judgmental.

[LWsciencejunkie]

Primewonk wrote:

<quoted text>
Damn! I can see why LW swoons over you. I'm a straight guy, and I think I'd date you! Very well stated and eloquent. Thanks for keeping it simple for us laymen!

Hey...HEY! BACK OFF...he's mine, Mine, MINE...oh, yeah..and the divine Ms.C, Goddess of Justice...never mind. We can't compete with her, fuggettaboutit.

[polymath257]

C Hamilton wrote:

<quoted text>Ok, as PM's live-in girlfriend I can tell you that I have no problem with his crush on LW. HOWEVER, I draw the line at him starting relationships with other men. Sorry 'bout that. I'm just not that kinky. LMAO!!!

No, you just don't want the competition.*smootch*

[polymath257]

LWsciencejunkie wrote:

<quoted text>
Hey...HEY! BACK OFF...he's mine, Mine, MINE...oh, yeah..and the divine Ms.C, Goddess of Justice...never mind. We can't compete with her, fuggettaboutit.

Anyone who can't share gets nothing....It's not a competition, it's an adventure!

[Tinka]

over-eazy-under-pressure wrote:

<quoted text>
ID, wasn't ever DESIGNED to be a "TESTABLE scientific theory"....It is DESIGNED to deceive the masses into "believing" that God is an extended and certified NWO Wizard who occasionally hang-out with "fellow, ALL-CARING and HEROIC, galactic aliens".
And to also, erase the word, "God", from the lexicon of our conscious & subconscious.
"I could WRONG, but, I don't think so."

Well God just is very connected through Religion..and we know what they have mastered...
Many just mad a total mess of it..
But to give up the ..A believe of an all knowing...I can't personally do that..
I don't think humans would have been able to be where we are at...if not for some greater knowledge that has a purpose....
Curiousity in itself is amazing...for people wanting to find answers...
I just don't think that our brains will evolve all too much more....I think maybe a few more answers to some un-resolved issues....but then...not sure..

I mean I could study all the math that's available...to the last formular...but with it I don't think I could find out more than what's already been made known...

SO...I think...at some point it's going to stop...maybe we will make blind people see..people can be made to hear...people will be able to walk etc...but at some point it will be pretty much just come to an end...if not due to nature man will come to a hault...

LOL...I am secretly hoping that there will be some math that can be explained...that's way esier and I too can grasp it..

Chinese food it's on it's way..and it came to a surprise...
It's the little things that matter so much...and that people take for granted..

[LWsciencejunkie]

Cvvl wrote:

<quoted text>
Now I see why LW has a crush on you.

I hate to say this, but in the interest of authenticity...it isn't his, er...intellect. I mean, it's that too...of course, but...never mind.

[Tinka]

I mean I know we are working on all of it...I am just saying it will get to the point..that it is going to be like taking a pill..Or some simple procedure...
So then what???

Why are humans only using so little of the brain???

If there isn't a 100% usage the answer might never be made known..LOL

Anyways...I like my soul and my spirit is one of young...and I am keeping it that way..

Even if it means I am stupid for the remainder of what else there is to come..

[Tinka]

Is on it's way...yikes...(I wish I had the little red reminder line)

Rumble....true...love keeps people young...something that is for free as well...

[Tinka]

Night all you brainiacs....

[over-eazy-under- pressure]

Tinka wrote:

I mean I know we are working on all of it...I am just saying it will get to the point..that it is going to be like taking a pill..Or some simple procedure...
So then what???
Why are humans only using so little of the brain???
If there isn't a 100% usage the answer might never be made known..LOL
Anyways...I like my soul and my spirit is one of young...and I am keeping it that way..
Even if it means I am stupid for the remainder of what else there is to come..

YOU ASKED:
(Why are humans only using so little of the brain???
If there isn't a 100% usage the answer might never be made known..LOL")

YOU ANSWERED:
("I like MY soul and MY spirit is one of young...and I am KEEPING IT THAT WAY..
Even if it means I am STUPID for the remainder of what else there is to come.")

"IS THAT, YOUR FINAL ANSWER?"

[MichiganGEL]

Primewonk wrote:

<quoted text>
And even stranger, at least in cats, if one is in Slow Wave Sleep we can sample the CSF and isolate a Delta Sleep Inducing Peptide. Place that peptide into the CSF of another cat and it will go into SWS.

Googling turned up a good introduction to sleep in the November 8, 2005 NYTimes:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/11/08/science/08s...
- Steven Lima, biologist at Indiana State.
- Dr. Giulio Tononi, psychiatrist, and Dr. Chiara Cirelli, at the University of Wisconsin.
- Jerome Siegel, sleep expert at the University of California, Los Angeles

Sleeping "with one eye open" also discussed:
"Niels Rattenborg, a colleague of Dr. Lima's, now at the Max Planck Institute for Ornithology in Germany.'The ducks on the interior slept more with both eyes closed, and the ducks on the edge slept with one eye open. And they used the eye that was facing away from the other birds.'

To give each side of the brain enough rest, the ducks at the ends of the row would stand up from time to time, turn around and sit down again. This allowed them to switch eyes and let the waking half of the brain go to sleep."
... Cool!!!

[TheGavin]

Tinka wrote:

I mean I know we are working on all of it...I am just saying it will get to the point..that it is going to be like taking a pill..Or some simple procedure...
So then what???
Why are humans only using so little of the brain???
If there isn't a 100% usage the answer might never be made known..LOL
Anyways...I like my soul and my spirit is one of young...and I am keeping it that way..
Even if it means I am stupid for the remainder of what else there is to come..

Actually, regarding the brain, that's a fallicy concering it...if I understand you correctly.

If you're not using 100%, you are impaired.

I know the old urban myth that started (I think in the 70's?, 80's?) said something to the effect of..."Man, imagine if we could use 100% of our brains capacity/potential!...currentl y we only use 10 to 12%!"

If you only used 10 or 12 percent, you'd be in the same state as Terry Schiavo was.

We actually do use 100% of our brains capacity...otherwise...with each 5 or 10% non-use...we'd become further and further debilitated.

[Cvvl]

LWsciencejunkie wrote:

<quoted text>
I hate to say this, but in the interest of authenticity...it isn't his, er...intellect. I mean, it's that too...of course, but...never mind.

LOL

The only reply to that which is safe and family-friendly...
"Good night all, even those I disagree with (and those who disagree with me). If we don't see each other again this weekend, then I hope it's because you're being enriched. And if we do meet, then may our wits be sharpened and our knowledge increased."

[LWsciencejunkie]

TheGavin wrote:

<quoted text>
Actually, regarding the brain, that's a fallicy concering it...if I understand you correctly.
If you're not using 100%, you are impaired.
I know the old urban myth that started (I think in the 70's?, 80's?) said something to the effect of..."Man, imagine if we could use 100% of our brains capacity/potential!...currentl y we only use 10 to 12%!"
If you only used 10 or 12 percent, you'd be in the same state as Terry Schiavo was.
We actually do use 100% of our brains capacity...otherwise...with each 5 or 10% non-use...we'd become further and further debilitated.

You have it all wrong. We have all those redundant brain cells so we can drink. Cheers.

I'm going to take this opportunity to let you know that your posts just about blow me away every time. Absolutely fabulous. Thank you for every one of them.

[PoKay1kaDuB]

Katydid wrote:

Mutations in the genome as manipulated or artificially induced by man are quite often beneficial; this is the whole purpose of oncogene therapy.
The properties that make transposons so useful in oncogene therapy are their ability to move from one chromosomal position to another. In particular, transposons can be harnessed to stably integrate sizeable pieces of DNA into a host's chromosome.
Gene therapy in oncology has been employed to utilize gene transfer into tumor cells to induce tumor cell death, stimulate anti-tumor immune response, inhibit angiogenesis, and control tumor cell growth (replace defective genes with normal ones).
The problem was how to obtain an efficient delivery of nucleic acids into the cells? Viral vectors were first employed. Vectors based on viruses offered a very efficient way to introduce gene constructs into the cancerous cells, but they were hard to control, had genotoxic effects and immunological complications (patients died).
To solve the problem oncogeneticists are working with transposon- based gene vectors.
Last year, a team of researchers studied a gene that produced a protein called Myc (pronounced “Mick”), which promotes cell division. A mutation of this gene causes cells to overproduce the protein, prompting perpetual cell division and tumor growth. By turning off the mutated gene, the researchers found that not only did uncontrolled cell division cease, but the cells also reactivated a normal physiological mechanism, called senescence, which makes it possible for a cell to eventually die (senescence is like a fail-safe mechanism to stop cancer in the cell, normally, when a cell detects a deleterious mutation, it launches the senescence process, resulting in the permanent loss of the cell's ability to proliferate, and halting cancer; so in order to become tumor cells, those cells have to overcome senescence). Researchers were amazed that senescence was reactivated, that the cells had retained this mechanism. It was a long held school of thought that as the cells proliferated uncontrollably, they also irreversibly circumvented this mechanism that causes normal cells to die when they get old or malfunction, literally making the cancerous cell immortal.
Imagine their shock when they found that by switching off a single malfunctioning gene, not only did they halt the endless division but also restored the cells own natural mechanism to ensure its mortality.
This has opened a whole new field in oncogene therapy, use the cell's own natural mechanism to destroy itself (cancerous cell).
None of this would be possible without evolutionary biology and the in-depth understanding of the facts of evolution.
Luckily for you though we do not ask patients if they accept the facts and theory of evolution prior to sending off a genetic assay.

When you come back from your hot date maybe you can answer me the following :
You very specifically stated some very inspiring cancer research. Now I would ask you to very specifically explain to me how evolutionary theory made this possible. Don't forget, very specifically. Without prior discovery of DNA and biochemical structures and mechanisms, evolutionary theory would not be possible, not the other way around. There might be value to observable microevolution, but what direct value to practical science is the theory of evolution of the first lifeform into more complex?(which is not observable) This is the part of evolution along with abiogenesis that should either be taught along WITH ID, or not at all.

[PoKay1kaDuB]

MichiganGEL wrote:

<quoted text>
I've decided that it's "much ado about nothing."
Time and time again you and others have said here that ID has no mechanism or reaearch to demonstrate. If you are really convinced of that then the amount of time that could be devoted to ID in a science class should be maybe ten minutes?
Just enough time to let the students know that evolution does not explain everything - especially abiogenesis. The student may believe that an Intelligent Designer or Creator got things started, but this class will focus on facts that can be observed in the field or lab... That will be more than enough to keep you busy!

I've suggested the same quite a few times over some past threads, no one seems to like it, it is like they are allergic to their own soul, they can't let a higher power in the door at all.
Pretty sad. Pretty blind