NASA Scientists say Rings can form without Planets

There are 4 comments on the Clarksville Online story from Jul 15, 2013, titled NASA Scientists say Rings can form without Planets. In it, Clarksville Online reports that:

Many young stars known to host planets also possess disks containing dust and icy grains, particles produced by collisions among asteroids and comets also orbiting the star.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Clarksville Online.

“Geologist [I'm Climate Change]”

Since: Mar 07

formerly Nuneaton

#1 Jul 15, 2013
Nice idea but will be an unstable result.

Even in a planet free ringed disc a planet will form in the ring with the largest concentration of particles and tidally bound gas & dust. Intersting thing is that in a flat disc with rings it is likely that more than one planet will condense in the rings (largest forms first). The result will be either a single planet that eats the ring (ie. Jupiter) or a large planet forms with one or more co orbital body in a trojan orbit which is likely to collide with the main planet as the ring gets "munched" (ie. Saturn).

The fact that I have labelled 2 analogues involving gas giants from our own solar system implies that this is likely to have happened to our Solar system in its early history of condensation from the last stages of the protosolar nebula.

Fun bit is that the presence of a planet also results in tidal orbital resonance that shepherds disc gas & particles into rings related to the tidal resonance points. The growth of the outer gas giants Uranus & Neptune & the inner planets from the dust & cannonball stage & large collision product debris rings indicates that all of the other planets are a secondary function of the formation of Jupiter & Saturn. On a log distance plat all the planets in the solar system line up like a string of pearls at the Jupiter & Saturn resonance points.
Of major note here is that in several stellar systems with more than one planet such as 55cnc (dusty), the planet spacing (gas giants in particular) is double that seen in the Solar system & the planets are also rather bigger. It appears that direct planet formation from a disc ala produces rings but in a dusty disc the rings are very wide spaced and the planet growth controls the ring spacing rather quickly ie. the 5.5 Jupiter mass planet formed first & all the rest of them followed on (currently the inner planets appear to be in resonance rings and are no longer migrating inward toward the central star, but the innermost may be being tidally bumped inward toward the central star with time. In a log plot distance of this system the planets also line up like a string of pearls with a big asteroid gap.

It is therefore safe to assume that rings in a protostellar disc may not contain a planet actually in the ring @ the time but if found, would indicate a planet somewhere in the system even if it is not yet seen as a result of it being rather closer to the star than the ring visible in view.

Have a nice day: Ag

“ROCK ON ROCKERS!!”

Since: Mar 11

Rockin' USA ;)

#2 Jul 22, 2013
WHY Doesn't The Earth have a Ring around it???.

NOT FAIR..SATURN has TWO RINGS!!!

“Geologist [I'm Climate Change]”

Since: Mar 07

formerly Nuneaton

#3 Jul 24, 2013
Colorado Chick wrote:
WHY Doesn't The Earth have a Ring around it???.
NOT FAIR..SATURN has TWO RINGS!!!
Simple:

Rings condensed into a moon outside the "clarke belt" of synchronous orbit. Tides with Earth then swept moon out from formation position sweeping up the rest of the post impact collision debris resulting in several major basins when Moon intersected the orbits of several smaller asteroid sized moons that formed in the outer ring set as a result of initial shepherding from the proto moon. Moon is now the sole natural object in the Earth Moon system and is now as a result of continued tidal bulge drift, much further away than the original outer limit of the debris disc (which would initially have looked a bit like my avatar pic).

The interesting bit is that as the Earth is a small planet, the main post impact condensation model should produce 2 moons one immediately outside the "clarke belt" (synchronous orbit), and a 2nd rather bigger moon inboard of the "clarke belt" which would have spiralled in and impacted the surface, probably in lots of small bits as a result of roche limit breakup at about 200-500Km above the surface. This event & its tides would have wound up the Earth's rotation rate & kicked the moon that we now see into its outwardly drifting orbit.

This of course is very bad news for hippie type sci fi & fantasy fans as an Earth sized planet with rings would be immediately post impact & would resemble a small holiday hotel garden of hell (bring your own booze, food, air supply, cooling system, accommodation & furniture).
The lifespan of any ring system within the clarke belt nowadays would involve a fall to earth piecemeal in a few million years (which would make life in the equator rather interesting).

Have a nice day: Ag

“ROCK ON ROCKERS!!”

Since: Mar 11

Rockin' USA ;)

#4 Jul 24, 2013
Adrian Godsafe MSc wrote:
<quoted text>
Simple:
Rings condensed into a moon outside the "clarke belt" of synchronous orbit. Tides with Earth then swept moon out from formation position sweeping up the rest of the post impact collision debris resulting in several major basins when Moon intersected the orbits of several smaller asteroid sized moons that formed in the outer ring set as a result of initial shepherding from the proto moon. Moon is now the sole natural object in the Earth Moon system and is now as a result of continued tidal bulge drift, much further away than the original outer limit of the debris disc (which would initially have looked a bit like my avatar pic).
The interesting bit is that as the Earth is a small planet, the main post impact condensation model should produce 2 moons one immediately outside the "clarke belt" (synchronous orbit), and a 2nd rather bigger moon inboard of the "clarke belt" which would have spiralled in and impacted the surface, probably in lots of small bits as a result of roche limit breakup at about 200-500Km above the surface. This event & its tides would have wound up the Earth's rotation rate & kicked the moon that we now see into its outwardly drifting orbit.
This of course is very bad news for hippie type sci fi & fantasy fans as an Earth sized planet with rings would be immediately post impact & would resemble a small holiday hotel garden of hell (bring your own booze, food, air supply, cooling system, accommodation & furniture).
The lifespan of any ring system within the clarke belt nowadays would involve a fall to earth piecemeal in a few million years (which would make life in the equator rather interesting).
Have a nice day: Ag
DUDE, I don't Recall signing up for your Class... But...Thanks anyway!! ;)

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