Who Is Allah?

Aug 24, 2007 Full story: The Brussels Journal 212,445

“Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? [...] What does God care what we call him?”

From the desk of Soeren Kern on Fri, 2007-08-24 11:56 Europeans love to mock the salience of religion in American society. via The Brussels Journal

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Seeker

Lowell, MA

#180755 Jun 22, 2013
JOEL wrote:
Causation is innate in energy field like say charge is inherent in electron/proton.
IN an energy field, but what causes the energy field itself?
JOEL wrote:
Cause and energy are not two different things - effect is the cause itself in partial or complete manifestation.
No, it is the result of cause. The existence of energy would be the cause, manifestation of the cause, ormanifestation energy, is the effect of the cause or the existence of energy itself.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#180756 Jun 22, 2013
JOEL wrote:
Bye, dunces.
(smiles)
Look, it's not my fault that your logic does not actually work. The cause is the existence of energy itself, the effect is it's manifestation to us via it's actions. Cause and effect, by definition cannot be the same thing.
uhuh

Jumilla, Spain

#180757 Jun 22, 2013
it is forbidden to even mention the names of FALSE gods (Exo 23:13) or cause other people to mention them

that's why the rabbanim of the past never even mentioned the name Yeshua/Yahshua (false god)

yet they mentioned the name Allah without reservation, to refer to God, whenever they wrote in Arabic
JOEL

India

#180758 Jun 22, 2013
The qm vacuum to which energy reduces to at the end of a cosmic cycle is a state of singulairity that comprises feeble em waves and particles that keep popping up and down in it that with greater activity (work done by the system) - a part of its natural innate rhythms - and when a certain critical limit is reached loses its poise of stato-dynamic equilbrium and as a result it manifests its energy via big bang to form concentrated packets of energy called matter .
JOEL

India

#180759 Jun 22, 2013
A seed (cause) gives rise to its effect which is a tree. H2O (cause) manifests as solid, liquid or vapor depending on the temperature and pressure conditions and at the triple point of water all the 3 states of H2O co-exist. Zygote (cause) gives rise to offspring (effect). Energy (cause) manifests as matter (effect), rocks (cause) disintegrate into soil (effect), em energy vibrating at a certain frequency manifests as light (effect) and so on. Thus, effect is nothing else but the cause in partial or complete manifestation. Cause should be at least as great as its effect in terms of information content for the transformation to hold.
JOEL

India

#180760 Jun 22, 2013
Similarly, qualities cannot exist independent of subtsance. Sweetness (quality) inheres in sugar (substance), wetness (quality) ineheres in liquid water (substance). Sugar devoid of sweetness and water in the liquid state minus its wetness cannot exist. To reiterate - qualities cannot exist independent of substance. Mind without intelligence is a misnomer.
JOEL

India

#180761 Jun 22, 2013
Consciousness inheres in energy to form an integrated field like the obverse and reverse sides of a coin. Energy and matter are also like the obverse and reverse sides of a coin. Matter, energy, consciousness are unified. One cannot exist without the other(s).
JOEL

India

#180762 Jun 22, 2013
Order, organization, purpose, intelligence and will are natural aspects of consciousness, while activity or dynamism is inbuilt in energy. Energy is intelligent as it combines order and purpose with dynamism. LOL.
JOEL

India

#180763 Jun 22, 2013
Being means self-existent field of consciousness-energy taken either as a universal entity or in its individualized aspect. The becoming is the self-manifestation of the being.
JOEL

India

#180764 Jun 22, 2013
SUNTA: How do you know there's an afterlife?

BUNTA: Because my religious book says so.

(smiles)
JOEL

India

#180765 Jun 22, 2013
Bye, infants.

(grins)
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#180766 Jun 22, 2013
Substance is inseparable from its traits/qualities/characteristi cs. Substance with its inherent qualities constitutes the effect, while the cause manifesting as the effect (substance with its innate qualities) is the matter comprising it.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#180767 Jun 22, 2013
JOEL wrote:
A seed (cause) gives rise to its effect which is a tree. H2O (cause) manifests as solid, liquid or vapor depending on the temperature and pressure conditions and at the triple point of water all the 3 states of H2O co-exist.
Not simultaneously. Different states are caused by different temperatures. A temperature condition (cause) has to take place first before the effect can occur. Water is not simultaneously gas, water and ice, only it base chemical is the same. You can't have simultaneous states of water.
JOEL wrote:
Zygote (cause) gives rise to offspring (effect).
No, that is merely a development of the zygote itself. The cause is what created the zygote itself, the effect is the zygote and the later, more developed form of that zygote. The cause of the development of that zygote are other things.
JOEL wrote:
Energy (cause) manifests as matter (effect),
and it manifests due to it's actions upon other things.

Energy does not always equal matter itself, it merely causes it in some instances. But energy can also exist without physical matter, if physical matter originates from energy. And in some instances a certain behavior of energy can cause matter.
JOEL wrote:
rocks (cause) disintegrate into soil (effect),
Soil or other factors would be the cause for the disintegration of the rock (effect) into the soil. The effect is the disintegration. The cause is the soil or other factors.
JOEL wrote:
em energy vibrating at a certain frequency manifests as light (effect) and so on.
And the cause is the vibration and the effect is the manifestation of light. But again, can't energy exist independent of light? Yes.
JOEL wrote:
Thus, effect is nothing else but the cause in partial or complete manifestation.
Not one single example you gave actually worked.
JOEL wrote:
Cause should be at least as great as its effect in terms of information content for the transformation to hold.
But the cause can exist without the effect. It just cannot be "said" to be a cause unless it causes something, but it still exists prior to the effect in order to be able to cause the effect and is therefore independent of the effect in that respect. But it has to exist first, independent of it's effect. This is why it's called cause and effect, or cause THEN effect, rather than effect and cause or effect then cause. The order of the statement is not interchangeable. And there is no such thing as causeeffect or effectcause where they are both the same thing. There has to be an "and" or "then" between cause and effect.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#180768 Jun 22, 2013
The universe (effect) is energy (cause) in graduated manifestation. From where did this energy come from is an illogical question since it asssumes an infinte regress and most importantly it implies a number of spaces or confines where this energy supposedly arose and from this place it was supposedly pushed into another place. This line of logic also assumes energy is created since it believes that energy arose in one space/place and was thnen transferred to some other space or place. So, numerous spaces exist before the formation of energy itslef for the created energy to be pushed into. Space and time are not independent of energy but are self-extension and self-rhythm respectively of energy in manifestation . Infinite regress is a line of poor logic that keeps stretching on without limit but anything without a boundary cannot come into existence and if for the sake of argument it does somehow exist it would implode or collapse on itself for lack of centralization (central control). Infinite energy would have to used to control and organize this never-ending line of regress and so it's best that infinte regress is cut out from the picture. If energy cannot be created or destroyed then logicaly speaking it ought to have 2 phases manifest and unmanifest with the movement being from stato-dynamic to dynamic ,
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#180769 Jun 22, 2013
Joel, the simple mystics example of the singer and the song. Not one, not two, they are the same, but the singer has to first exist before the song can and when the song stops, the singer still exists. So even though they are one in the same while the song exists, before and after the song begins and ends, the singer did exist and still exists and the song did not exist in either case. So the singer still supersedes the song as the cause for it's beginning and end, even though they can be one and the same while the song exists.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#180770 Jun 22, 2013
JOEL wrote:
The universe (effect) is energy (cause) in graduated manifestation. From where did this energy come from is an illogical question since it asssumes an infinte regress
That is correct. That's why there has to be a non created creator outside of our known form of existence itself. Energy is still within our known form of existence. So postulating something within our known form of existence that never had a beginning is more ludicrous then postulating something outside of our known existence that has no beginning. If it is outside, in some manner, then it no longer has to be beholden to the logical standard of having an origin. How that can be? I have know idea. As I said, the whole matter is beyond the rational and conceptualizing mind itself. But saying that something within existence has no beginning is even more illogical or irrational.
JOEL

India

#180771 Jun 22, 2013
Self-existent energy taken as a whole is the cause that on partial or complete manifestation forms packets of concentrated energy called matter (effect) which thereafter acts as a cause itself to give rise to various substances with their innate qualities (effect). So, we see cause becoming effect and this effect later becoming cause that then gives rise to another effect and later this effect becoming a cause that on manifestation shows up as another effect and so on - thus, to simplify things, we say that existence is singular (unified field of energy) with an inbuilt chain of causal mechanisms that oscillates, in keeping with internal rhythms, between a state of stato-dynamic unmanifestation to a dynamic state of manifestation.
yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#180773 Jun 22, 2013
uhuh wrote:
it is forbidden to even mention the names of FALSE gods (Exo 23:13) or cause other people to mention them
that's why the rabbanim of the past never even mentioned the name Yeshua/Yahshua (false god)
yet they mentioned the name Allah without reservation, to refer to God, whenever they wrote in Arabic
rabbee: well they also do not say TheName of G-D, Yeshooah Hoo VHee out loud either. but it is most likely, because they don't know it. and all-h, is not a name either. and is their no way to assure, that it is the same g-d, as TheG-D of Only TheTorah?

and what makes you think, that the rabbeem that have not been true to G-D. here in TheTorah, in over 2400 years are telling the truth even now? why should i assume, that any of you or your religious leadership are telling the real truth? when none of you can prove to me, that you are actually true to G-D here and now in TheTorah.

jews will set jews, up higher on their own pedestal. christians will set christians, up higher on their own pedestal. muslems will set muslems up higher on their own pedestal. and atheists will set other atheists up higher on their own pedestal. and they will all pretend to look down, on each others own pedestals. as they look down on you, for not even standing on their soapbox. and still will look down on you from their haughty pedestal, when you do stand on their soapbox.

your twisted logic is just that, yours twisted the way you want to see. even if it was given to you, from someone else you accepted it.
yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#180774 Jun 22, 2013
JOEL wrote:
SUNTA: How do you know there's an afterlife?
BUNTA: Because my religious book says so.
(smiles)
rabbee: sadly enough yes, because i am here in it for the third time, with all of you and your grandmother. and this time, does not appear to be any better, than the last two times. or the other thousands and thousands of other third or fourth times before that.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#180775 Jun 22, 2013
JOEL wrote:
Self-existent energy
As soon as you said that, it meant to me that you do not understand what I am saying. If self existent means self created or non created, then that makes no sense in our known existence itself. Only when there is something outside of our known existence that doesn't have to play by the rules of our known existence, can that be possible.
JOEL wrote:
taken as a whole is the cause that on partial or complete manifestation forms packets of concentrated energy called matter (effect) which thereafter acts as a cause itself to give rise to various substances with their innate qualities (effect).
But what is the cause that causes partial or complete manifestation form packets? Manifestation of form packets still come from a cause, whether the cause later becomes one with the effect or not. That was what my singer and the song, or dancer and the dance analogy points to. Sure the dancer and the dance are one after the dancer begins the dance, but not before, and they are not one after the dance ends. The dancer supersedes the dance in both cases, even if they are one while the dance happens. The dancer itself exists before and after the life of the dance. So they can be said to be one sometimes, but two other times. Not one, not two, it depends upon the existence of the dance itself. But in the absence of the dance, the dance is not even one with the dancer, let alone two.
JOEL wrote:
So, we see cause becoming effect and this effect later becoming cause that then gives rise to another effect and later this effect becoming a cause that on manifestation shows up as another effect and so on
But there still is an original cause. Even if something operates in a circle, one has to ask where the circle itself came from.
JOEL wrote:
- thus, to simplify things,
You sure are, even though you try to use complex, convoluted terminology. No matter how complex your terminology is, it still comes down to an oversimplified take on the whole matter.
JOEL wrote:
we say that existence is singular (unified field of energy) with an inbuilt chain of causal mechanisms that oscillates, in keeping with internal rhythms, between a state of stato-dynamic unmanifestation to a dynamic state of manifestation.
And where did existence itself come from? If everything we observe, logically has a cause or origin, where does existence itself come from? Shouldn't we ask the same question about existence and cause of energy itself? But people prematurely stop the questioning at that point so that they can pretend that they have a logic answer and feel better about the issue by pretending that they know. And pretending that we know makes us feel secure, which makes us feel good, but knowing that we don't know makes us feel insecure and therefore bad. So we make up stories for ourselves that we know, in order to feel good. We stop the logic questioning chain prematurely and tell ourselves that we have answered the problem.

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