Who Is Allah?

Who Is Allah?

There are 256296 comments on the The Brussels Journal story from Aug 24, 2007, titled Who Is Allah?. In it, The Brussels Journal reports that:

“Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? [...] What does God care what we call him?”

From the desk of Soeren Kern on Fri, 2007-08-24 11:56 Europeans love to mock the salience of religion in American society. via The Brussels Journal

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Brussels Journal.

Alex123 Wm

London, UK

#180825 Jun 23, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>You are demon possessed.
.
If BMZ is demon possessed, then that stupid BJ did not achieve anything!
Why the hell did he come to planet earth?
Why do they make wild claims about BJ taming the demons?
BJ is a fraud.
He could not control anything.
He was a failure.
He ran away and his Master Satan is running the show.
Shamma you worship demon in the form of a naked pagan.
Alex123 Wm

London, UK

#180826 Jun 23, 2013
Seeker wrote:
So hijack the scriptures from the descendants of Isaac with no scriptures coming from the descendants of Ishmael, rewrite them, charge corruption against them to allow the rewrite to suit his needs and then add some pagan elements such as the Kaaba, Black Stone and the Jinn, and there you have it. Islam.
Why do Jews reject the idol worshipping Pagan Christians?

If you can't answer this. Please ask the Jewish Rabbi and get back to us.
Thanks
Alex123 Wm

London, UK

#180827 Jun 23, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Where was your reference to the Kaaba, Black Stone, the Jinn and scriptures from the descendants of Ishmael? I must have missed that in your response. Maybe I should read it again. doo doo doo.... Nope, not there. Maybe you just forgot.
Can you please point out to us the scriptures given to BJ or even to Jesus.
Thank you.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#180828 Jun 23, 2013
Alex123 Wm wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus did NOT pick Paul.
The synoptic Gospels don't refer to Paul.
They don't have to.
Alex123 Wm wrote:
<quoted text>
It is disingenuous
Oooo, big word for you. did you copy and paste it?
Alex123 Wm wrote:
<quoted text>
to replace the original disciples by liars.
Jesus knows nothing about Paul.
Paul lied.
Jesus is VERY clear about avoiding Gentiles.
Luke 24
45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them,“This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#180829 Jun 23, 2013
Alex123 Wm wrote:
<quoted text>
The important thing here is this:
You don't have to be a descendant of x, y or z to be able to worship God or to pass the message on to people.
Well you would think that since Ishmael supposedly shared in the covenant, that his descendants would have scriptures as well, right?
Alex123 Wm wrote:
<quoted text>
Surely you will agree that the message of God was controlled exclusively by one tribe or group until the arrival of Islam.
No, Islam is a fraud.
Alex123 Wm wrote:
<quoted text>
Islam is truly liberating giving ALL mankind equal access to God.
What more do you want?
Christians already did that before Muhammad's fraud.

Luke 24
45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them,“This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Islam was for the Arabs, which was why it was created in Arabic.

43:3 (Y. Ali) We have made it a Qur'an in arabic, that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom).
Alex123 Wm wrote:
<quoted text>
To be honest Paul could have been a Muslim if only he told the people to listen to "Christ" and worship G-d who created "Christ".
Or did he say that and was shot down by Roman Pagans?
Who knows?
Look, if the guy was lying on purpose as Muslims always claim, you would think that he would simply stop lying when things got tough for him. Liars lie to benefit themselves, not to make themselves suffer. He had a good life as a tax collector and he was actually a persecutor of the Christians, or as they would have been considered back then by the regular Jews, crazy or wayward Jews because the actual title Christian was not created yet. It would be the ultimate irony that a persecutor of them, and a collaborator of the Romans would be the guy who ends up siding with Jesus and being the guy who started the beginning of the end of the Roman religion. Just like it was ironic for Moses, who was living a rich, influential life in Egypt, to end up being the ruin of the Egyptians. The Egyptians take in a baby from the Nile and care for it in a rich family, only to have that baby end up being their ruin. God made his enemies take care of his prophet. I guess God has a sense of humor after all.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#180830 Jun 23, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
The God of Muslims is the God of Abraham, Moses and Jesus.
Important Note (Exclusion): The triune God of Christianity is not a God, It is a lie against God of Abraham and the God of Moses and the God of Jesus.
Trinity is Satanic, Shamma.
Is this God of Abraham, Moses and Jesus, Satan himself?
Long before Muhammad and his Quran, the Jinn were the spirits that scared and embellished the imagination of the simple minded nomadic pagan Arabians.

Muhammad, like almost everything else regarding pagan Arabian traditions, beliefs and fetishes,'ISLAMIZED' them also and incorporated them into his Cult Belief System.

Muhammad actually created a world full of a 'specie' parallel to that of the Muhammadan Muslims, so much so, that Muhammadan Sharia law, incorporates rules of inheritance, regulations, judgements, and opinions about Human-Jinn sexual relationships, as if they were of the same 'substance' as Man. There is even a special Sura in their name; al Jinn Number 72.

Ar-Rahmaan 55:56 Wherein both will be those (maidens) restraining their glances upon their husbands, whom no man or jinn [yatmithhunna](has opened their hymens with sexual intercourse) before them.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#180831 Jun 23, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
The God of Muslims is the God of Abraham, Moses and Jesus.
Important Note (Exclusion): The triune God of Christianity is not a God, It is a lie against God of Abraham and the God of Moses and the God of Jesus.
Trinity is Satanic, Shamma.
Is this God of Abraham, Moses and Jesus, Satan himself?

You are demon possessed.
Muslims pretend that Allah is the God of Abraham.
But it is not.
It is Satan himself.

The word for deception/deceiver/scheme is makr. The lexical sources define the term as:

Miim-Kaf-Ra = To practice deceit or guile or circumvention, practice evasion or elusion, to plot, to exercise art or craft or cunning, act with policy, practice stratagem.

LL, V7, p: 256 (Source)

And:

He practised DECEIT, GUILE, or CIRCUMVENTION, desiring to do another a foul, an abominable, or an evil action, clandestinely or without his knowing whence it proceeded.(Lane’s Arabic-English Lexicon; source)

Lest Muslims accuse these lexicons of bias or distortion notice what Muslim scholar Dr. Mahmoud M. Ayoub says when he asks,

"how the word makr (scheming or plotting), which implies deceitfulness or dishonesty, could be attributed to God." (The Quran and Its Interpreters – The House of Imran [State University of New York Press [SUNY], Albany 1992], Volume II, p. 165; italic emphasis ours)

After listing several Muslim sources he quotes a renowned Muslim expositor named ar-Razi who wrote that,

"scheming (makr) is actually an act of deception aiming at causing evil. It is not possible to attribute deception to God. Thus the word is one of the muttashabihat [multivalent words of the Quran]." (Ibid., p. 166; italic emphasis ours)

Unfortunately for ar-Razi, the Quran attributes deception to Allah since it identifies him as the best makr there is.

Ayoub also sources one Muslim who actually boasted of Allah being the best conniver/deceiver/schemer etc.,

"Qurtubi observes that some scholars have considered the words ‘best of schemers’ to be one of God’s beautiful names. Thus one would pray,‘O Best of Schemers, scheme for me!’ Qurtubi also reports that the Prophet used to pray,‘O God, scheme for me, and do not scheme against me!’(Qurtubi, IV, pp. 98-99; cf. Zamakhshari, I, p. 366)." (Ibid., p. 166)

And here, also, is how one of the earliest sources on the life of Muhammad interpreted Q. 8:30:

Then he reminds the apostle of His favour towards him when the people plotted against him 'to kill him, or to wound him, or to drive him out; and they plotted and God plotted, and is the best of plotters.' i.e. I DECEIVED them with My firm GUILE so that I delivered you from them.(The Life of Muhammad: A Translation of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah, with introduction and notes by Alfred Guillaume [Oxford University Press, Karachi, Tenth impression 1995], p. 323; capital emphasis ours)

Thus, the Quran unashamedly calls Muhammad’s god the best liar and deceiver of them all! It even dares to say that ALL deception belongs completely to Allah:

And verily, those before them did deceive/scheme (makara), but all deception/scheming is Allah's (falillahi al-makru). He knows what every person earns, and the disbelievers will know who gets the good end. S. 13:42

In fact, the Quran states that Allah actually raises wicked individuals to deceive and scheme:

Even so have we placed in every city, ringleaders of its wicked ones, to scheme therein (liyamkuroo): but only against themselves shall they scheme (yamkuroona)! and they know it not. S. 6:123 Rodwell

And further commands people to do evil so that he can then have a reason to destroy them!

And when We would destroy a township We send commandment to its folk who live at ease, AND AFTERWARD they commit abomination therein, and so the Word (of doom) hath effect for it, and we annihilate it with complete annihilation. S. 17:16 Pickthall

The God of Abrahan cannot deceive nor does he deceive.
Alex123 WM

London, UK

#180832 Jun 23, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
They don't have to.
<quoted text>
Oooo, big word for you. did you copy and paste it?
<quoted text>
Luke 24
45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them,“This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
What do you mean they don't have to?
We have a liar like paul who came upwith a load of bull crap and you are happy to believe him!
What a gullible boy you are.
Try not to correct my English. It is my language and not yours.
Did you not correct "behaviour" of Rabbeen Al Jihad!
Educated folks know about Luke 24, but you are not expected to keep up with them.
I am sure you were bullied a lot when you were a kid and well into your teens. That is why you are at pains to convince us that you know everything..logic, science, religion, english, latin, medicine, nuclear physics, cattle trade (bull crap)....etc!
We all know that you are a naive little boy.
Redeem yourself by finding some proof from the Synoptic Gospels beginning with Mark.
Did Jesus say any of these?
1. "I am God in flesh"
2. "I am God!"
3. "I am THE only begotten son of God"
4. "I am God in person"
5. "I am God Incarnate"
6. "I am THE Father and Father and I are one and the same person"
7. "I am made of sin"
8. "God is a trinity and I am part of that trinity or triune"
9. "I am your God who came to earth in human form as my own son to die on a Roman cross for the sins of Gentiles or the world or the entire humanity/"
10. "Through belief in my unconditional/loving/willing sacrifice as your God in human form as my own son, you can have eternal life"
11. "Therefore, Worship me and the cross"
12. "Father, ghost and I are co equal, co eternal and consubstantial gods forming a godhead"
13.“I, Jesus, existed before God as Word and I, Jesus, became God”
14.“Hey Philip! I am THE Father"
15. "Worship and kiss the cross and get your pope to kiss it, carry it with him and raise it like Moses' serpent"
16.“My mission is not to bring a book, but to die for sins of GENTILES and JEWS”
17. "I am your saviour (dear gentiles)"
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#180833 Jun 23, 2013
Alex123 Wm wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do Jews reject the idol worshipping Pagan Christians?
If you can't answer this. Please ask the Jewish Rabbi and get back to us.
Thanks
The Jews rejected Jesus because he claimed to be divine, unlike what the Quran claims where it says he never claimed to be any such thing. The Jews sure seemed to understand what he was trying to say. The Quran had to lie about what Jesus claimed or else there would be no room for Muhammad to follow up on him. This is why every time it mentions his name, it also has to say "son of Mary" to go out of it's way to say he is not Son of God. It even goes so far as quoting the disciples as saying "oh Jesus, son of Mary", but nobody would go out of their way to say son of Mary in a conversation, they might say Jesus, or Teacher, or Lord, but son of Mary doesn't seem to be part of a normal conversation style. This is an extra statement or qualifier to his name that is completely unnecessary and would not happen in a normal conversation. It's completely obvious. It was Muhammad inventing a quote from the disciples so that he could once again paint him as merely the son of Mary and this time he uses the disciples and puts words in their mouth that they never would have said in order to reinforce this idea and say that they knew him as merely the son of Mary as well. Muhammad sometimes was not too bright like that. Just like his followers often seem to be as well.

Now I think that he was divine in a sense that is a little different than how others interpret that claim, and I explained that before in detail. I explained how he could be considered God on earth or a physical manifestation of God doing what he wants through Jesus' physical form since Jesus could only do the will of God and not his own and therefore it was God's actions being done THROUGH him, not his. And this is how he could be considered a representation or physical manifestation of God on earth, but yet be Son of God (virgin birth), and yet God could be said to be even greater or more. My explanation makes perfect sense and I can provide verses that lead me to this conclusion. You don't have to agree with it, but there is nothing about it that doesn't make sense and in fact, it explains how Jesus can be considered all of these things at once, whereas the standard Christian explanation does not. I've done a lot of thinking about this my entire life.
Alex123 WM

London, UK

#180834 Jun 23, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Christians already did that before Muhammad's fraud.
Luke 24
45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them,“This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Islam was for the Arabs, which was why it was created in Arabic.

43:3 (Y. Ali) We have made it a Qur'an in arabic, that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom).
<quoted text>
Look, if the guy was lying on purpose as Muslims always claim, you would think that he would simply stop lying when things got tough for him. Liars lie to benefit themselves, not to make themselves suffer. He had a good life as a tax collector and he was actually a persecutor of the Christians, or as they would have been considered back then by the regular Jews, crazy or wayward Jews because the actual title Christian was not created yet. It would be the ultimate irony that a persecutor of them, and a collaborator of the Romans would be the guy who ends up siding with Jesus and being the guy who started the beginning of the end of the Roman religion. Just like it was ironic for Moses, who was living a rich, influential life in Egypt, to end up being the ruin of the Egyptians. The Egyptians take in a baby from the Nile and care for it in a rich family, only to have that baby end up being their ruin. God made his enemies take care of his prophet. I guess God has a sense of humor after all.
Quran in Arabic and preserved in Arabic is doing a great job.
You obviously know nothing about Quran that invites ALL mankind unlike a bunch of lies made up by pagans that promote a naked euro/white pagan on a phallus bullying non whites into worshipping this pagan.
Islam has a consistent message in one language that can be translated and passed on in many langugages.
One reference point... radiating all across the globe.
Divine wisdom indeed.
Sadly your books have no originals.
Don't regurgitate that Luke 24, as it is p They were written by liars who has nothing from Jesus in his language.
There were no eye witnesses.
Jesus did NOT come for the Gentiles.
Jesus has made that very clear in his own words.

You have forgotten Jonah and the three day/night claim?
Alex123 WM

London, UK

#180835 Jun 23, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Well you would think that since Ishmael supposedly shared in the covenant, that his descendants would have scriptures as well, right?
<quoted text>
No, Islam is a fraud.
<quoted text>
Christians already did that before Muhammad's fraud.
Luke 24
45 Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures. 46 He told them,“This is what is written: The Messiah will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, 47 and repentance for the forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Islam was for the Arabs, which was why it was created in Arabic.
43:3 (Y. Ali) We have made it a Qur'an in arabic, that ye may be able to understand (and learn wisdom).
<quoted text>
Look, if the guy was lying on purpose as Muslims always claim, you would think that he would simply stop lying when things got tough for him. Liars lie to benefit themselves, not to make themselves suffer. He had a good life as a tax collector and he was actually a persecutor of the Christians, or as they would have been considered back then by the regular Jews, crazy or wayward Jews because the actual title Christian was not created yet. It would be the ultimate irony that a persecutor of them, and a collaborator of the Romans would be the guy who ends up siding with Jesus and being the guy who started the beginning of the end of the Roman religion. Just like it was ironic for Moses, who was living a rich, influential life in Egypt, to end up being the ruin of the Egyptians. The Egyptians take in a baby from the Nile and care for it in a rich family, only to have that baby end up being their ruin. God made his enemies take care of his prophet. I guess God has a sense of humor after all.
Is Judaism a fraud?
Why do they consider your religion to be pagan idol worshipping cult?
Talk to them.
Alex123 WM

London, UK

#180836 Jun 23, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
... but I keep responding. So maybe I'm a lunatic as well.
You have finally said hello to "insight" and we all agree wholeheartedly with your "self assessment".
yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#180837 Jun 23, 2013
Alex123 Wm wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do Jews reject the idol worshipping Pagan Christians?
If you can't answer this. Please ask the Jewish Rabbi and get back to us.
Thanks
rabbee: are we only assuming that the alleged as jews, have been, or currently are true to G-D? when i even assume, that any muslim is true to G-D. any more than i assume, that christians are true to G-D. when you would be just as well off, assuming that all atheists are more true to G-D than any of you or muhammed.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#180838 Jun 23, 2013
Alex123 Wm wrote:
<quoted text>
Kaaba gives unity of direction from a point of view of prayers as Muslim prayer is physical and congregational prayers need direction without which people will be bumping into each other.
And there is no reference to the Kaaba in Jewish nor Chriatian scriptures at all, but there is plenty of reverence for it in Meccan pagan religions. Hmmmm.... Same with the Black Stone.
Alex123 Wm wrote:
<quoted text>
Why shouldn't Muslims visit the places that are of significance to them?
What pre Islamic scripture or idea made it significant? None. It was significant to the pagans in Mecca, where Muhammad grew up. It was his way of attracting the pagans to Islam by incorporating it's significance into Islam. Same with the Black Stone and the Jinn.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#180839 Jun 23, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Which nut told you that God leaned over to breathe out? 
God breathed nothing into the clay model, Shamma. It simply means God created man and gave him life.
Stop thinking that God is man, has a mouth and blows hot air. There is no such thing as the Holy Spirit of God. That is Christian bull shit.
You remarks verify the Muslims are children of Satan.
They reject that mans spirit is from God.
That is why Muslims have no relationship with God.
God gave man a Spirit of Himself so that man can have a relationship with God.
Man could never come to know God existed if man did not have a Spirit of God inside him.

Without the Spirit of God inside of man, man simply dies in his sins and suffers in eternal hell forever

Prior to the flood God did not spare sinful man they all perished in the flood and went straight to hell as punishment for their sins, except for Noah and his family.
Alex123 WM

London, UK

#180840 Jun 23, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
The Jews rejected Jesus because he claimed to be divine, unlike what the Quran claims where it says he never claimed to be any such thing. The Jews sure seemed to understand what he was trying to say. The Quran had to lie about what Jesus claimed or else there would be no room for Muhammad to follow up on him. This is why every time it mentions his name, it also has to say "son of Mary" to go out of it's way to say he is not Son of God. It even goes so far as quoting the disciples as saying "oh Jesus, son of Mary", but nobody would go out of their way to say son of Mary in a conversation, they might say Jesus, or Teacher, or Lord, but son of Mary doesn't seem to be part of a normal conversation style. This is an extra statement or qualifier to his name that is completely unnecessary and would not happen in a normal conversation. It's completely obvious. It was Muhammad inventing a quote from the disciples so that he could once again paint him as merely the son of Mary and this time he uses the disciples and puts words in their mouth that they never would have said in order to reinforce this idea and say that they knew him as merely the son of Mary as well. Muhammad sometimes was not too bright like that. Just like his followers often seem to be as well.
Now I think that he was divine in a sense that is a little different than how others interpret that claim, and I explained that before in detail. I explained how he could be considered God on earth or a physical manifestation of God doing what he wants through Jesus' physical form since Jesus could only do the will of God and not his own and therefore it was God's actions being done THROUGH him, not his. And this is how he could be considered a representation or physical manifestation of God on earth, but yet be Son of God (virgin birth), and yet God could be said to be even greater or more. My explanation makes perfect sense and I can provide verses that lead me to this conclusion. You don't have to agree with it, but there is nothing about it that doesn't make sense and in fact, it explains how Jesus can be considered all of these things at once, whereas the standard Christian explanation does not. I've done a lot of thinking about this my entire life.
Utter rubbish!
They rejected him because they thought he was a b*st*rd son of a whore. READ the Talmudic writing.
They would not accept a chap who didn't even know his real dad.
They rejected him because he could not do what was expected of him.
BJ ran away.

Quran provides the BEST explanation for the birth of Jesus. I have suggested an advanced form of IVF as one possible explanation very much inline with modern thinking. But you may not yet be ready to understand its intricacies. Let's leave it at that.

Quran gives both Jesus and his mother great dignitiy unlike your books of lies that get a pedo ghost to rape a frightened little girl when her elderly boy firend was fast asleep. We are still not sure who made the frighetened little girl pregnant...the ghost or dodgy daddy.
Alex123 WM

London, UK

#180841 Jun 23, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
And there is no reference to the Kaaba in Jewish nor Chriatian scriptures at all, but there is plenty of reverence for it in Meccan pagan religions. Hmmmm.... Same with the Black Stone.
<quoted text>
What pre Islamic scripture or idea made it significant? None. It was significant to the pagans in Mecca, where Muhammad grew up. It was his way of attracting the pagans to Islam by incorporating it's significance into Islam. Same with the Black Stone and the Jinn.
Please don't mention Jewish and Christian in the same breath!
Jews totally reject your pagan idol worshipping cult.
Just because you stole their books and worship their man does not give you the authority to tarnish their image.
Your cult was made up by non jewish pagans in a language not understood by Jews.
Seeker

Lowell, MA

#180842 Jun 23, 2013
Alex123 WM wrote:
<quoted text>
Quran in Arabic and preserved in Arabic is doing a great job.
You obviously know nothing about Quran that invites ALL mankind unlike a bunch of lies made up by pagans that promote a naked euro/white pagan on a phallus bullying non whites into worshipping this pagan.
Islam has a consistent message in one language that can be translated and passed on in many langugages.
And yet when one points out a problem in the Quran, suddenly Muslims use the excuse that Arabic can never properly be translated to get the true or full meaning and that one needs to read the Arabic to truly understand it.
Alex123 WM wrote:
<quoted text>
One reference point... radiating all across the globe.
Yes, one false reference point. One fairly well preserved fraud.
Alex123 WM wrote:
<quoted text>
Divine wisdom indeed.
There's no wisdom in that book at all that a 5th grader couldn't think of. There's nothing deep in it at all. That's yet another problem that I have with it, but you have to be capable of grasping deeper concepts before you can see the lack of depth of the Quran. but for people who do, it's completely obvious.
Alex123 WM wrote:
<quoted text>
Sadly your books have no originals.
Don't regurgitate that Luke 24, as it is p They were written by liars who has nothing from Jesus in his language.
Well then stop asking people to quote from any of them. Do one or the other. Ask and accept or don't ask. You ask for quotes, and if it suits your needs, that's the authentic verse, if it doesn't, that's the non authentic verse. You are being completely self serving and this is logically flawed. Let me give you the definition for "objective", which is what is deemed a logically sound method for analysis.

ob·jec·tive
/&#601;b&#712;jektiv/
Adjective
(of a person or their judgment) Not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
Alex123 WM

London, UK

#180843 Jun 23, 2013
yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: are we only assuming that the alleged as jews, have been, or currently are true to G-D? when i even assume, that any muslim is true to G-D. any more than i assume, that christians are true to G-D. when you would be just as well off, assuming that all atheists are more true to G-D than any of you or muhammed.
The Jews who follow Judaism have always rejected BJ.
Alex123 WM

London, UK

#180844 Jun 23, 2013
Seeker wrote:
<quoted text>
Look, if the guy was lying on purpose as Muslims always claim, you would think that he would simply stop lying when things got tough for him. Liars lie to benefit themselves, not to make themselves suffer. He had a good life as a tax collector and he was actually a persecutor of the Christians, or as they would have been considered back then by the regular Jews, crazy or wayward Jews because the actual title Christian was not created yet. It would be the ultimate irony that a persecutor of them, and a collaborator of the Romans would be the guy who ends up siding with Jesus and being the guy who started the beginning of the end of the Roman religion. Just like it was ironic for Moses, who was living a rich, influential life in Egypt, to end up being the ruin of the Egyptians. The Egyptians take in a baby from the Nile and care for it in a rich family, only to have that baby end up being their ruin. God made his enemies take care of his prophet. I guess God has a sense of humor after all.
Lies were made up by the writers of NT and the "Church".
Jesus worshipped G-d.
These pagans worship a jewish man as G-d.
What more do you need as proof?
If you can prove that Jesus claimed divinity in the slightly older books such as Mark, Matt and Luke please show us:
Redeem yourself by finding some proof from the Synoptic Gospels beginning with Mark.
Did Jesus say any of these?
1. "I am God in flesh"
2. "I am God!"
3. "I am THE only begotten son of God"
4. "I am God in person"
5. "I am God Incarnate"
6. "I am THE Father and Father and I are one and the same person"
7. "I am made of sin"
8. "God is a trinity and I am part of that trinity or triune"
9. "I am your God who came to earth in human form as my own son to die on a Roman cross for the sins of Gentiles or the world or the entire humanity/"
10. "Through belief in my unconditional/loving/willing sacrifice as your God in human form as my own son, you can have eternal life"
11. "Therefore, Worship me and the cross"
12. "Father, ghost and I are co equal, co eternal and consubstantial gods forming a godhead"
13.“I, Jesus, existed before God as Word and I, Jesus, became God”
14.“Hey Philip! I am THE Father"
15. "Worship and kiss the cross and get your pope to kiss it, carry it with him and raise it like Moses' serpent"
16.“My mission is not to bring a book, but to die for sins of GENTILES and JEWS”
17. "I am your saviour (dear gentiles)"

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