“Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? [...] What does God care what we call him?”
From the desk of Soeren Kern on Fri, 2007-08-24 11:56 Europeans love to mock the salience of religion in American society. via The Brussels Journal
Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Brussels Journal.
#180501 Jun 20, 2013
If you all go to the Judaism forum and click on the thread "Are heaven and hell real" you won't be sorry you did. It should be near the top of the list. And you will be able to understand why I believe what I believe. There's also a lot more to add to it. I just noticed the Judaism forum is at the bottom of this page!
#180502 Jun 20, 2013
Oh, so now you remember the PBUH. Phony.
Oh, so now it's "similar"
1. "I am God in flesh"
John 14:8-9. But I have also explained that my interpretation of this is that he is God in the flesh because everything he did was God doing it through him and he had no will of his own and therefore everything that he did was God doing it in the flesh form of Jesus. You already saw my longer explanation of this.
2. "I am God!"
3. "I am THE only begotten son of God"
4. "I am God in person"
This is a repeat of question 1
5. "I am God Incarnate"
This is a repeat of question 1 and 4
6. "I am THE Father and Father and I are one and the same person"
Does not say that, and I have explained how Jesus can be God on earth, the Son of God also, and also how no one is greater than the Father. I have explained how all three statements can be seen as true from my angle.
7. "I am made of sin"
It says that Jesus became sin, not I am made of sin, which is not to be taken literally. He took all of the past sins and offered himself up as sin itself so that sins can be redeemed. It is symbolic, but also true.
8. "God is a trinity and I am part of that trinity or triune"
I have explained many many many times before that the word "Trinity" is a term that was invented to describe a relationship that people saw between God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Some verses would say this is right, others may not, but my theory on this whole thing, which I have explained, allows for this and can explain this, even if the "exact" word was never used. The "exact" word "Christian" was never mentioned either. It is a word that non Christians people made up for followers of Christ. Nothing wrong with giving a group of people a title and nothing wrong with someone calling themselves that. Everything needs a word if you want to group people into titles.
Then there is Matthew 28:18 and Corinthians2 13:14. Nobody seemed to ask what the heck Paul was talking about when he said that, so the idea was around right from the beginning. He wouldn't have said what he said if his readers were totally unfamiliar with the idea. The only thing that Nicea did was to formalize what was already there for hundreds of years.
9. "I am your God who came to earth in human form as my own son to die on a Roman cross for the sins of Gentiles or the world or the entire humanity/"
He said that in pieces in different places. That was very silly for you to ask for one long, run on sentence like that.
10. "Through belief in my unconditional/loving/willing sacrifice as your God in human form as my own son, you can have eternal life"
John 10:28 14:6 and other verses in those chapters. Jesus did not make long, run on sentences like you are asking that he should.
11. "Therefore, Worship me and the cross"
He did not say the cross, that is merely a symbol of something that Christians believe happened and the cross itself is NOT worshiped any more than Muslims worship merely ink on paper copies of the Quran. I see nothing wrong with it. Jesus didn't recommend any symbols at all and left that up to followers to do. He did not recommend against them either as long as the symbol itself is not worshiped.
12. "Father, ghost and I are co equal, co eternal and consubstantial gods forming a godhead"
Not specifically said, it is a conclusion drawn from many verses. Are people not allowed to draw conclusions? But it is actually not an iron clad requirement for one to believe that to be a Christian. They merely need to believe that Jesus was a physical form of God on earth and died for sins. Christians themselves debate the concept and all still remain Christians. Could be true, might not be. I have made no final decisions on that, nor do I need to.
Since: Apr 11
#180503 Jun 20, 2013
Sorry to bust your bubble Muslim.
God is Spirit, and the language of the Bible is written in the Spirit of God.
Jesus and the Samaritan Woman
23But the hour comes, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeks such to worship him. 24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. 25The woman said to him, I know that Messias comes, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
When we read the Bible we must understand Gods word in truth and and in the Spirit.
From the Womb
The early church used the Septuagint, a Greek translation of the Old Testament completed prior to the first advent of Christ.
A scripture often quoted by the early church fathers touching on the eternity of Christ is Psalm 110:3.
You'd never guess why, from the wildly varying English translations of a corrupt Hebrew text of uncertain meaning. But the Septuagint reads like so, "The Lord said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
The Lord shall send out a rod of power for thee out of Sion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies. With thee is dominion in the day of thy power, in the splendours of thy saints: I have begotten thee from the womb before the morning." (Brenton Septuagint).
Here is how Justin Martyr quotes the passage: "From the womb, before the morning star, have I begotten thee." (Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, Chapter XXII); "In the splendors of Thy holiness have I begotten Thee from the womb, before the morning star." (Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, Chapter LXIII). "Before the morning" means 'before time'-- i.e., in eternity.
Rev 22:16 (NIV) "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
So Jesus in saying: "I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star"
Jesus is saying "I am before Time" in eternity.
#180504 Jun 20, 2013
13.I, Jesus, existed before God as Word and I, Jesus, became God
Nobody claims that Jesus existed before God. That was a very retarded question.
14.Hey Philip! I am THE Father"
If you have seen me, you have seen the father. Jesus was God manifesting himself in physical form because everything that Jesus did, was actually God doing it THROUGH Jesus.
9 Jesus answered:Dont you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say,Show us the Father? 10 Dont you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.
And why is he asking them to ask for things in HIS name?
15. "Worship and kiss the cross and get your pope to kiss it, carry it with him and raise it like Moses' serpent"
I don't do that, and they don't raise it up like Moses'serpent. I like the latest Pope. Instead of asking that people kiss his ring, he washes the feet of others, so he is attempting to bring the Church back to where it should be.
16.My mission is not to bring a book, but to die for sins of GENTILES and JEWS
He never once mentioned any book at all, not even in any abstract terms. The concept of an original "Injil" was a lie made up by Muhammad to make Jesus' mission look like his, because he had no interest in dying for sins and he had no idea of what the Gospels were even supposed to be. Nobody ever tried to forge a book called "The Gospel According to Jesus", but if there was such a thing, we would expected people to try to make forgeries with a title like that or a similar one. Instead, they are all called The Gospel According to (person's name), and they are all merely people retelling the story of what happened, which is what we would expect to people to do when such miraculous things happened. Jesus came to die for sins, not bring a book, nor write one. And Jeremiah 31 even speaks of this where it says in the new covenant, different from the one that brought them out of Egypt, the law shall be written in the hearts and minds of men, not in some book, and that God will forget their sins.
And what does Muhammad do? He creates a book where the book is everything. He just didn't get it and never understood Jesus. Jesus gave one simple law and that was all that was needed. Do to others as you would have them do to you. That covers everything. You don't need tons of specific laws, you merely need to have the right heart and follow that one simple law. It's not Jesus' fault that people are inherently selfish and can't do this and instead need all sorts of specific laws telling them how to do this. How do I do that? WHAT??? You sure know how to love yourself, right? So why would you ever asks for specific rules as to how to love others like yourself? People KNOW how to do that, but they just don't want to because they are selfish at heart, so they ask for rules on how to do that so that they can pretend that they do not know how to do that. And in the mean time, they aren't loving anybody at all. Not even God.
All that they are doing is to obey so that they can get their reward. That's not love, that is self interest. And that's EXACTLY what Muhammad provided them with, and from a spiritual perspective, this is exactly how I know that Muhammad and the Quran are spiritually bankrupt. But one would have to first understand Jesus and deeper concepts to see this.
#180505 Jun 20, 2013
So there's my complete take on it. Now shut up Polly and quit bothering people with your annoying repeats that have been repeated more than ONE HUNDRED TIMES. If you don't like my take on it, tough luck. But I told you time and time again that my beliefs are a little different and that my beliefs do not fit tightly into the tiny little box that you created from your tiny little mind.
You are merely crafting questions in a way so that you can try to prove yourself right, and that is essentially cheating in a conversation and therefore they are not legitimate, open questions, they are only questions designed to give you the answers that you want.
Now, let's do the same thing to you.But oo oo oo, that's not fair, right?
Show me where the Quran exactly says "this ENTIRE Quran is my word for word dictation". I think it DOES represent itself that way, but I have to piece things together to arrive at that conclusion, and so do you. So why are we allowed to piece things together from the Quran to draw conclusions and make assumptions about what it is indirectly telling us, but everything must be stated in the Gospels the EXACT way that YOU demand they be stated? It's ridiculous. But then again, that's the way you think. Your mind has the depth of a baby pool with a turd in it.
#180506 Jun 20, 2013
That is interesting Susan. Arabic haya/t..and over to hawwa..although not mentioned by name in Quran.
It is interesting what KJV Genesis 3, says as man accuses the woman:
12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.(MAN BLAMES THE WOMAN)
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life (Why blame the serpent instead of the "creature" who took on the form of a serpent?):
16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.(Woman the woman gets it in the neck!)
Written by male chauvinists?
The male chauvinist bible writers send a sinless man to die for the alleged sins caused by sinful woman!
Well done man, the great scape goat (sacrificial lamb) on behalf of sinful women!
They said: "Our Lord! We have wronged our own souls: If thou forgive us not and bestow not upon us Thy Mercy, we shall certainly be lost."
They take joint responsibility.
Quran often addresses men and woman.
Will be interesting to see similar recognition of women in "bible"
#180507 Jun 20, 2013
Aw dammit, I lost an entire second post to Alex's questions because somehow you must have been writing yours before mine. Now I have to hope that it shows up later like it sometimes does. or I will have to recover it. Dammit.
#180508 Jun 20, 2013
Never mind Shamma, it showed up a minute later. The database here works in weird ways sometimes, that's why I was hoping it would show up later because I had no copy of it. Fortunately, it did.
Since: Apr 11
#180509 Jun 20, 2013
Since: Apr 11
#180510 Jun 20, 2013
The Peshitta reads, "Thy people shall be glorious in the day of thy power; arrayed in the beauty of holiness from the womb, I have begotten thee as a child from the ages." (George M. Lamsa translation). The Vulgate for the Greek psalms reads, "ex utero ante luciferum genui te" (Psalm 109:3). The only modern Bible I have come across with anything like the old text is the New American Bible, "Yours is princely power from the day of your birth. In holy splendor before the daystar, like the dew I begot you."
This Psalm speaks of the Messiah, because Jesus Himself so applied it. Matthew Henry says of Psalm 110, "This psalm is pure gospel; concerning Christ, the Messiah promised to the fathers and expected by them." So if you had asked the Greek-speaking churchmen assembled at Nicaea for a proof-text on "begotten of the Father before all worlds", they'd have supplied Psalm 110:3.
One of the blessings of the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls has been renewed respect for the Septuagint. For centuries disrespected as a wildly non-literal,'free' rendition of a Hebrew text not much different from the modern Masoretic text, it's now realized to have been a literal translation of a older Hebrew text differing from that of the Masoretes. Thus, some of the 'stranded' New Testament citations of Old Testament verses one unhappily finds in the KJV translation, based on the Masoretic Hebrew, are starting to creep their way back into the Old Testament of modern Bibles, where the New Testament authors thought they belonged all along. Try to find the Old Testament verse the author of Hebrews is citing in Hebrews 1:6: "And let all the angels of God worship him" -- you'll not find it in the KJV, it's 'stranded'. It's Deuteronomy 32:43 in the Septuagint: "Rejoice, ye heavens, with him, and let all the angels of God worship him; rejoice ye Gentiles, with his people, and let all the sons of God strengthen themselves in him..." (Brenton Septuagint); but it's found its way back, albeit in debased form, into the NRSV and NEB. While usually the newer versions bring nothing good, only loss and defacement, one can always hope. Might one day this explicit statement that God the Father begot the Messiah before the morning star find its way home, too.
Since: Apr 11
#180511 Jun 20, 2013
Clement of Alexandria quotes this passage also,
"And do not suppose that my song of salvation is new in the same sense as an implement or a house. For it was 'before the morning star [pro heosphorou]'; and,'in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.' But error is old, and truth appears to be a new thing." (Clement, Exhortation to the Greeks, Chapter 1);
"'Awake, thou that sleepest,' He cries,'and arise from the dead, and there shall shine upon thee Christ the Lord,' the sun of the resurrection, He that is begotten 'before the morning star [pro heosphorou]', He that dispenses life by His own rays." (Clement, Exhortation to the Greeks, Chapter IX).
How does one 'beget' a word? The answer is found in scripture:
"My heart is astir with gracious words [logos LXX];
I speak my poem to a king;
my tongue is the pen of an expert scribe."
(Psalm 45:1, Tanakh, Jewish Publication Society)
Modern commentators perceive this as an autobiographical confession by the human writer of the Psalm, because, "...out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks." (Matthew 12:34). But the early church fathers realized the prophets do not speak from their own supply: "Then the LORD put forth His hand and touched my mouth, and the LORD said to me:'Behold, I have put My words in your mouth.'" (Jeremiah 1:9). Even those passages in Psalms which record the plaint of humanity abandoned by God, like Psalm 22, were found ultimately to be prophetic and thus divine, foretelling the words spoken by the Messiah on the cross. So those early church writers who quote Psalm 45:1 as 'my heart has emitted my good word', were understanding the speaker here to be no mortal scribe, but the actual Author.
Another Septuagint reference proclaiming the pre-existence of Christ which has been 'lost' from the Masoretic text, is Psalms 72:5: "And he shall continue as long as the sun, and before the moon for ever." (Brenton Septuagint). Justin quotes this passage as, "...and He shall co-endure with the sun, and before the moon unto all generations." (Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, Chapter LXIV).
Since: Apr 11
#180512 Jun 20, 2013
At the Beginning of His way
"The LORD possessed [qanah] me at the beginning of His way,
Before His works of old.
I have been established from everlasting,
From the beginning, before there was ever an earth.
When there were no depths I was brought forth,
When there were no fountains abounding with water.
Before the mountains were settled,
Before the hills, I was brought forth;
While as yet He had not made the earth or the fields,
Or the primal dust of the world.
When He prepared the heavens, I was there,
When He drew a circle on the face of the deep,
When He established the clouds above,
When He strengthened the fountains of the deep,
When He assigned to the sea its limit,
So that the waters would not transgress His command,
When He marked out the foundations of the earth,
Then I was beside Him as a master craftsman;
And I was daily His delight,
Rejoicing always before Him,
Rejoicing in His inhabited world,
And my delight was with the sons of men."
Who is the speaker here? A poetic fiction? A very powerful poetic fiction, to be God's master craftsman!: "The LORD by wisdom founded the earth; by understanding He established the heavens; by His knowledge the depths were broken up, and clouds drop down the dew." (Proverbs 3:19-20). Paul proclaimed Jesus Christ as the "wisdom" of God: "For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God." (1 Corinthians 1:22-24).
An unfortunate translation of Proverbs 8:22 in the Septuagint helped to precipitate the Arian controversy. But the Bible does not say God's Wisdom is created -- as if before inventing this novel thing, God had been a fool --, but known, found and declared:
"From where then does wisdom come?
And where is the place of understanding?
It is hidden from the eyes of all living,
And concealed from the birds of the air.
Destruction and Death say,
'We have heard a report about it with our ears.'
God understands its way,
And He knows its place.
For He looks to the ends of the earth,
And sees under the whole heavens,
To establish a weight for the wind,
And apportion the waters by measure.
When He made a law for the rain,
And a path for the thunderbolt,
Then He saw wisdom and declared it;
He prepared it, indeed, He searched it out." (Job 28:20-27).
'Qanah' literally means 'possess', just as the KJV literally translates it; only by extension could it imply 'creation' if that is the manner of coming into possession:
Since: Apr 11
#180513 Jun 20, 2013
Reproach of Christ
"By faith Moses, when he became of age, refused to be called the son of Pharaohs daughter, choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin, esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt; for he looked to the reward." (Hebrews 11:24-26).
Christ's people continue to suffer reproach for His name: "If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified." (1 Peter 4:14). How did Moses share "the reproach of Christ"? He prophesied a Messiah to come (Deuteronomy 18:15), but those who reproached him: Pharaoh, the rebellious children of Israel,-- are not recorded to have thrown this future prophecy in his face. Rather Israel's personally following Christ in the wilderness brought them to share in His reproach. It is unclear how this could be if He did not exist at the time.
#180514 Jun 20, 2013
Can you quote Deuteronomy 18:15?
Since: Nov 11
#180515 Jun 20, 2013
The Arabic pedophile terrorist called Mohammed,(Curse be upon him), was right about two things:
#1. Allah's name is "The Great Deceiver"!
#2. The Kabah was built over a talking snake!
We Christians KNOW who that snake is and who the "Great Deceiver" is!
#180516 Jun 20, 2013
Can you at least link where you are getting all of these long copy and pastes from? Thank you. Seems like all you do is long copy and paste and then short insults of your own with blanket statements like "you are wrong" and "you are going to hell". Do you have any real thoughts of your own on these issues besides "Muslims are going to hell"?
Have you ever thought any thoughts of your own that aren't actually from your Mom and Dad, your favorite teacher, your favorite preacher etc....? I'll bet if I could research what these people have told you or how they think, we can find that almost all of what are supposed to be your own thoughts, are actually THEIR thoughts, not yours. That's a pretty astounding revelation when one finally sees that. It was astounding to me when I first realized that this thing that I think is me, is actually nothing but a combination of the thoughts of OTHERS that I respect or follow for whatever reason. It wasn't until I realized this that I was actually able to think and create my OWN thoughts. I think that everybody has the spirit hidden inside of them, and everybody is supposed to awaken this spirit and become their own unique version of Jesus, given their own unique abilities and circumstances. You don't copy Jesus. Jesus was Jesus, you are you. You become your own unique version. I think that everybody is supposed to read and study and ponder the scriptures for themselves as much as their leaders do and come to their own conclusions, rather than the conclusion of others. Why do you think that God made everybody unique?
Since: Apr 11
#180517 Jun 20, 2013
New International Version (NIV)
15 The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your fellow Israelites. You must listen to him.
#180518 Jun 20, 2013
Hey nutcase MPD:
BJ is NOT pbuh.
Now shut up.
#180519 Jun 20, 2013
Hello Lying coward MPD.
Do you know what synoptic Gospels mean?
I asked you to start with Mark, remember?
Your brain is like a sieve.
Now go back and get me Mark first...then Matt....then Luke .ok?
Get on with it, MORON.
Since: Apr 11
#180520 Jun 20, 2013
Jesus is the Son of God.
Root and Offspring
Jesus Christ is both the "root" and "offspring" of David:
I, Jesus, have sent My angel to testify to you these things in the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, the Bright and Morning Star.(Revelation 22:16).
"Offspring" as born in the flesh, "Root" as pre-existing.
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