Who Is Allah?

Who Is Allah?

There are 225636 comments on the The Brussels Journal story from Aug 24, 2007, titled Who Is Allah?. In it, The Brussels Journal reports that:

“Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? [...] What does God care what we call him?”

From the desk of Soeren Kern on Fri, 2007-08-24 11:56 Europeans love to mock the salience of religion in American society. via The Brussels Journal

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Brussels Journal.

JOEL

Mumbai, India

#162636 Feb 9, 2013
Alex123 aka WM wrote:
<quoted text>

In your case it is "Genital" clown!
You're not getting the point - anyone who surrenders to a higher or lower principle as the case may be cannot be a follower of Islam since surrender is an impersonal and a universal trait, while the surrender demanded by Islam is to be specifically directed to a being called Allah.

Islamic surrender as a religion specifically indicates the surrender of a human being to a supraphysical being called Allah.

Thus, if a man surrenders to a higher principle he is not following Islam in the narrow religious sense since submission is a common feature of the human consciousness.

A believer may submit to a saint, to a prophet, to an animal, to a whore, to a friend, to an employer, to the absolute, to the higher self, to Hashem, Vishnu, Allah, Lucifer or to any supraphysical being.

To consider every surrendered believer a Muslim is misleading since the object of surrender in each case may be different.

Only the exclusive surrender of a person to Allah can specifically be called Islam.

All other forms of surrender are forms of surrender in a non-Islamic sense as Allah is not the object of submission.

So, to label Adam a Muslim is incorrect since he surrendered to his personal G-d, YHVH/Hashem that is not the same as say Muhammad surrendering to his personal God called Allah.

If it can be proven that Hashem is the same as Allah then and then only can it be concluded that Adam was a Muslim or a surrendered follower of the being, Allah.

However, by any yardstick, it can easily be shown that the characteristics and teachings of Hashem, the Hebrew deity, are very different from those of the Muslim deity, Allah.

So, Adam was not a Muslim but simply a surrendered soul who made the surrender of his psychic to a being other than Allah who he knew as Hashem or YHVH.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#162637 Feb 9, 2013
WAS ADAM A MUSLIM AS ALLEGED BY RABID MUSLIMS?

Anyone who surrenders to a higher or lower principle as the case may be cannot be a follower of Islam since surrender is an impersonal and a universal trait, while the surrender demanded by Islam is to be specifically directed to a being called Allah.

Islamic surrender, as a religion, specifically enjoins or indicates the surrender of a human being to a supraphysical being called Allah.

Thus, if a man surrenders to a higher principle he is not following Islam in the narrow religious sense since submission is a common feature of the human consciousness.

A believer may submit to a saint, to a prophet, to an animal, to a whore, to a friend, to an employer, to the absolute, to the higher self, to Hashem, Vishnu, Allah, Lucifer or to any supraphysical being.

To consider every surrendered believer a Muslim is misleading since the object of surrender in each case may be different.

Only the exclusive surrender of a person to Allah can specifically be called Islam.

All other forms of surrender are forms of surrender in a non-Islamic sense as Allah is not the object of submission.

So, to label Adam a Muslim is incorrect since he surrendered to his personal G-d, YHVH/Hashem that is not the same as say Muhammad surrendering to his personal God called Allah.

If it can be proven that Hashem is the same as Allah then and then only can it be concluded that Adam was a Muslim or a surrendered follower of the being, Allah.

However, by any yardstick, it can easily be shown that the characteristics and teachings of Hashem, the Hebrew deity, are very different from those of the Muslim deity, Allah.

So, Adam was not a Muslim but simply a surrendered soul who made the surrender of his psychic to a being other than Allah who he knew as Hashem or YHVH.
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#162638 Feb 9, 2013
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
If everything is always the same what's the point to repeat the history over and over when you know yet it won't change nothing?
Who are the Adam's sons then?
rabbee: well we always seem to forget, only G-D can change it. so a change in our mental attitude, could result in a slightly, or greatly better accounting. but as long as we, have the same miserable attitude toward G-D. then you can always expect the same miserable physical accounting.

and TheOnly Son for adam, that G-D mentions is Shet. and even has lots of grandsons, even before They give birth to Shet. via, the last occurance, in TheTorah. even though adam, refuses to claim anyone who is an embarassment to him as his granson or grandaughter.

so in otherwords, if we are not really true to G-D. here in TheStory of Creation any time. then we are just, spinning our own same untrue vain wheel. but change can only be made, only if we please G-D. but no constant liar, can ever be pleasing to G-D.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#162639 Feb 9, 2013
162605 SC answered. Apropos Moses: recall that the story is written down in times of great stress.
----

MAAT wrote:
Alex wrote:
That's why I refer to this "hashem" as tribal, racist, sexist, bigoted, antigentile, mini slave god of non-gentiles who is ocncerned only with non-gentiles who wrote their own books.
end quote.
A tribal lineage of the land is set out.
And ishmael can't have been a forefather of the arabs.
(Some other time, or rather allready posted why.)
The point was that none got begrudged their god.
Otherwise you've projected christian and islamic ideas.
But if you kill people, burn their countryside, destroy their town and culture and books, and try to wipe out their name and memory, by claiming also ideas from them as your own, after first vilifying them by calling them ahteist and heretics and pagans and the worst influence against ideas forwarded by thus a different culture, about another culture it occupies.
Well then it simply goes wrong.
And i would say that all that prejudice is truly yours and not of YHWH.
A rather bad way of dealing with uncomfortable truths.
Why attack others...does your Allah say so.
idem for christians.
I agree with you on lot of issues.
The "hashem" I refer to is NOT the TRUE GOD of Adam who would have not favoured just a few tribes or races.

I am not insulting the God/Hashem who created Adam, Abraham Isaac and Ishmael. I apologise if my post gave that impression.

I am criticising the writers who have managed to write books to suit their own needs.

Given what happened to them throughout history, I am sure many others in their position would have done exactly the same.

When it comes to merciless killing we have loads of verses in the "OT"..just numbers 31 alone is enough to make you sick and Moses does not come across as a caring kind man!

There is also another misconception about Abraham.
There a pureline Arabs among the ancestors of Abraham!
These are beign conveniently forgotten by writers who are bent on promoting their own cause.

Ironically Arab blood is already inside Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!!!!

Ishmael is not the father of arabs!

What is needed is unity of purpose when worshipping GOD.

All believers have equal rights and access to GOD who created all of us.

No tribe race or nation has prefential access to GOD indefinitely.

Any GOD who prefers a race or tribe above all other humans for all time is NOT God in my view.

I believe that Allah judges all humans not by tribe or race but by deed and piety.
---
I'll have to get back to a lot.
or rather point by point.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#162640 Feb 9, 2013
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>

This idiot can't neither understand the language the British imposed to his ancestors in Asia.

Take your pills and answer to this:

Then show that Islam is for all humans.


so you. So how do you know Adam was the first human?

How do you know Adam was a muslim?

How do you know Quran is telling the truth?

The I or we believe indicates an opinion. I don't want discuss opinion or delusion but facts.

Answer to all 4 points.
This is not the way to debate a point - all irrational challenges and defiant statements that make no sense.

You must take the root meaning of a principle and analyze that in detail and relate the analysis to the topic under discussion by intrapolating or extrapolating or widening the scope of the discussion by introducing other concepts, analogies and practical examples so as to arrive at a conclusion.

Besides, never make statements like - so and so is not a historical character or so and so supraphysical being does not exist. That is too narrow and crass materialistic and besides the point.

Remember, there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

- Hamlet (1.5.166-7), Hamlet to Horatio

But, then, you're not intelligent enough and too pushy and abrupt and you lack the fine breeding and class and so you mess up nearly all discussions you enter into with others.

Anyway, peace.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#162641 Feb 9, 2013
rabbee yehoshooah adam wrote:
<quoted text>
rabbee: well we always seem to forget, only G-D can change it. so a change in our mental attitude, could result in a slightly, or greatly better accounting. but as long as we, have the same miserable attitude toward G-D. then you can always expect the same miserable physical accounting.
and TheOnly Son for adam, that G-D mentions is Shet. and even has lots of grandsons, even before They give birth to Shet. via, the last occurance, in TheTorah. even though adam, refuses to claim anyone who is an embarassment to him as his granson or grandaughter.
so in otherwords, if we are not really true to G-D. here in TheStory of Creation any time. then we are just, spinning our own same untrue vain wheel. but change can only be made, only if we please G-D. but no constant liar, can ever be pleasing to G-D.
But how they can have a lot of grandsons before their only son Shet?

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#162642 Feb 9, 2013
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
This is not the way to debate a point - all irrational challenges and defiant statements that make no sense.
You must take the root meaning of a principle and analyze that in detail and relate the analysis to the topic under discussion by intrapolating or extrapolating or widening the scope of the discussion by introducing other concepts, analogies and practical examples so as to arrive at a conclusion.
Besides, never make statements like - so and so is not a historical character or so and so supraphysical being does not exist. That is too narrow and crass materialistic and besides the point.
Remember, there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
- Hamlet (1.5.166-7), Hamlet to Horatio
But, then, you're not intelligent enough and too pushy and abrupt and you lack the fine breeding and class and so you mess up nearly all discussions you enter into with others.
Anyway, peace.
Why those statements make no sense?

There are no rules over the way to debate. Anyone can set the debate the way he pleases.

My way is based on evidences and thought.

Your way is based on reasoning unsupported by nothing but yourself, like your gods and their women. At the end apparently you recognized they had sexual relation... Something I've been said long time ago btw.

Anyway, Shalom

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#162643 Feb 9, 2013
Why those statements make no sense?

There are no rules over the way to debate. Anyone can set the debate the way he pleases.

My way is based on evidences and thought.

Your way is based on reasoning supported by nothing but yourself, like your gods and their women. At the end apparently you recognized they had sexual relation... Something I've been saying long time ago btw.

Anyway, Shalom
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#162644 Feb 9, 2013
(smiles)
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#162645 Feb 9, 2013
FRITJOF CAPRA:

In the near future, I shall be posting excerpts from the writings of Fritjof Capra and undertake an analysis of each claim. Dr Capra holds a Ph.D. in particle physics from the University of Vienna and has worked with the Jet propulsion Lab. At one point in time, Capra claims he had a spontaneous mystical experience while sitting on a beach that changed his entire outlook on life and existence. He took up the synthesis of mind-matter as his life calling and has writing many interesting books on the subject. These days he heads the Center for Ecoliteracy with think tank director Zenobia Barlow, in Berkeley.
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#162646 Feb 9, 2013
Aviram Rozin, the Israeli founder of Sadhana Forest, India, has surrendered to the supreme self in the core of his being. Does this make him a Muslim?

(smiles)
JOEL

Mumbai, India

#162647 Feb 9, 2013
QUOTE OF THE DAY:

"The aim of all work is to bring more consciousness into matter."

Dr Aviram Rozin

WOW!
Alex123 aka WM

London, UK

#162648 Feb 9, 2013
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
This idiot can't neither understand the language the British imposed to his ancestors in Asia.
Take your pills and answer to this:
Then show that Islam is for all humans.
I wasn't present during the big bang and so you. So how do you know Adam was the first human?
How do you know Adam was a muslim?
How do you know Quran is telling the truth?
The I or we believe indicates an opinion. I don't want discuss opinion or delusion but facts.
Answer to all 4 points.
Hey pizza boy..... You may think that your English is "perfect" but to people here in England you are very foreign.
You continue to make a fool of yourself by guessing my well known ancestry!
But, we know yours.
So stop being a prattass and answer these or become an italian tank driver operating 5 reverse gears...

Allow me to clarify in English.
1. You claim that Jesus is NOT God
2. You claim that Jesus is NOT Messiah
3. You claim that Jesus is NOT Son of God
4. You claim that Jesus did NOT die for the sins of humans.
5. You claim that through Jesus nobody can be saved or can have eternal life.
6. You claim that Christianity, Islam and Judaism are lies.
7. You claim that Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism are lies
8. You claim that you do not believe in god the father, god the son and god the holy ghost.
9. You claim that you do not believe in Allah
10. You claim that you do not believe in Eloah, Elohim, Adonai, Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh,YHWH, El Shaddai,YHWH Tzevaot, HaShem, Elohe, Yah,Adoshem,El,Elah, El Roi, El Shaddai,Elyon,The Eternal One,Shalom, Shekhinah, HaMakom,
11. You claim that ALL the religious books are made up by men.

Just say yes or no to the 11 questions and put many readers out of their misery.
Alex123 aka WM

London, UK

#162649 Feb 9, 2013
JOEL wrote:
<quoted text>
You're not getting the point - anyone who surrenders to a higher or lower principle as the case may be cannot be a follower of Islam since surrender is an impersonal and a universal trait, while the surrender demanded by Islam is to be specifically directed to a being called Allah.
....A believer may submit to a saint, to a prophet, to an animal, to a whore, to a friend, to an employer, to the absolute, to the higher self, to Hashem, Vishnu, Allah, Lucifer or to any supraphysical being..
All the "beings" you mention there are inferior to Allah because by definition, Allah is THE ULTIMATE.
Therefore, I have no hesitation in submitting to the Will of the BEST of the BEST.
Smiles...
Alex123 aka WM

London, UK

#162650 Feb 9, 2013
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
What a douche bag is this guy
I did answer you yet. Not just this, you still have to answer to all that:
Then show that Islam is for all humans.
I wasn't present during the big bang and so you. So how do you know Adam was the first human?
How do you know Adam was a muslim?
How do you know Quran is telling the truth?
The I or we believe indicates an opinion. I don't want discuss opinion or delusion but facts.
Answer to all 4 points.
Hey moron....We believe that Adam was created by Allah.
Presumably Adam "kind of" worshipped Allah and therefore could be classed as a Muslim!

Even the Christian Bible in Arabic confirms this in Genesis, if you manage to learn some Arabic!

But first LEARN your ABC's...
Come on sing with me... "a..b..c..d..e..f..g; h..i..j..k..lmnop; q..r..s..tuv..w..x..y and Zee; now i know my a,b,c's; next time won't you sing with me!!####

Let's introduce ABC's to you VERY slowly...


Now answer my questions you offspring of ex fascists...

Allow me to clarify in English.
1. You claim that Jesus is NOT God
2. You claim that Jesus is NOT Messiah
3. You claim that Jesus is NOT Son of God
4. You claim that Jesus did NOT die for the sins of humans.
5. You claim that through Jesus nobody can be saved or can have eternal life.
6. You claim that Christianity, Islam and Judaism are lies.
7. You claim that Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism are lies
8. You claim that you do not believe in god the father, god the son and god the holy ghost.
9. You claim that you do not believe in Allah
10. You claim that you do not believe in Eloah, Elohim, Adonai, Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh,YHWH, El Shaddai,YHWH Tzevaot, HaShem, Elohe, Yah,Adoshem,El,Elah, El Roi, El Shaddai,Elyon,The Eternal One,Shalom, Shekhinah, HaMakom,
11. You claim that ALL the religious books are made up by men.

Just say yes or no to the 11 questions and put many readers out of their misery.
MGR

Smarr, GA

#162652 Feb 9, 2013

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#162653 Feb 9, 2013
The Arab Claim to Palestine because they are descendants of Ishmael:
By Robert Morey

The Arabs' claim to the land of Israel rest entirely on three false assumptions:

All Arabs are the descendants of Abraham through Ishmael.
Ishmael and his descendants were included in the covenant God made with Abraham.
Since the Abrahamic convenant included the land of Israel, the Arabs have a legitimate claim to it.
Ten Historical Facts that refute these Arab claims:

According to the Torah, when Abraham left Ur of the Chaldees, he went West to what is now called Israel (Gen. 12 ff.). He became a dweller in tents in that land. It was in Israel that God made a covenant with him for the land in which he was living at that time. It was in Israel that he fathered Isaac, Ishmael, and many other sons and daughters. Isaac was the only son of Abraham chosen by God to be the heir of the covenant. Abraham took Isaac to Mt. Moriah to be offered up as a sacrifice to God.
The Torah is contradicted by Qur'an at nearly every point. According to Surah 2:119-121, Abraham and Ishmael did not dwell in tents in Israel but in the city of Mecca in Arabia. Together they rebuilt the Kabah and placed the black stone in the wall. It was Abraham who started the tradition of an annual pilgrimage to Mecca, throwing stones at the devil, etc. Abraham took Ishmael (not Isaac) to nearby Mt. Mina to offer as a sacrifice to God.
Ishmael's twelve sons were named Nebaioth, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, Mishma, Dumah, Massa, Hadad, Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah.(Gen. 12:11-16) They intermarried with the local population in North Arabia and produced several nomadic tribes know as the "Ishmaelites."
It was prophesied in the Torah that Ishmael and his family would "live to the East of all his brothers." (Gen. 16:12) "And they settled from Havilah to Shur which is east of Egypt as one goes toward Assyria." (Gen 25:18) This broad area is the desert section East of Egypt in Northern Arabia toward the kingdom of the Assyrians.
The Ishmaelites are mentioned as a distinct tribe in the Assyrian records. They later intermarried with and were absorbed by the Midianites and other local tribes. In Gen. 37:25-28; 39:1, the Ishmaelites are called the Midianites and in Judges 8:22-24 cf. 7:1f, the Midianites are called the Ishmaelites. The identification cannot be made any stronger.
Arabia was already populated by the descendants of Cush and Shem long before Abraham or Ishmael were born (Gen. 10:7). Their cities and temples have been well documented by archeologists.
If all the Arab people descended from Ishmael as Muhammad claimed, where did all the original Arabs go? What happened to them? Who did Ishmael marry if the Arabs did not already exist? If Arabia was unpopulated, who built Mecca? Since he lived there, obviously it existed before he was born. The facts speak for themselves. The Arab people existed before, during, and after Ishmael moved started roaming the wilderness of North Arabia.
The descendants of Ishmael were scattered in Northern Arabia from the wilderness of Shur to the ancient city of Havilah. They were absorbed by the local tribes such as the Midianites (Gen. 37:25-28; 39:1; Judges 8:24). There is no historical or archeological evidence that Ishmael went south to Mecca and became the "Father" of the Arab race. Some modern Arab scholars admit that before Muhammad, Qahtan was said to be the "Father" of the Arab people, not Ishmael.
The Abrahamic Covenant was given only to Isaac and to his descendants. Ishmael and the other sons of Abraham were explicitly excluded by God from having any part of the covenant made with Abraham.(Gen. 18:18-21)
Therefore the descendants of Ishmael and the other sons of Abraham do not have any claim to the land of Israel because they are not included in the covenant God made with Abraham. Only the Jews have any claim to the land of Israel.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#162654 Feb 9, 2013
JOEL wrote:
FRITJOF CAPRA:
In the near future, I shall be posting excerpts from the writings of Fritjof Capra and undertake an analysis of each claim. Dr Capra holds a Ph.D. in particle physics from the University of Vienna and has worked with the Jet propulsion Lab. At one point in time, Capra claims he had a spontaneous mystical experience while sitting on a beach that changed his entire outlook on life and existence. He took up the synthesis of mind-matter as his life calling and has writing many interesting books on the subject. These days he heads the Center for Ecoliteracy with think tank director Zenobia Barlow, in Berkeley.
i'm looking forward to it.
Read his book (the biggy that made him well-known) about a century ago...
MGR

France

#162655 Feb 9, 2013
http://behindwoods.com/features/visitors-1/ja...

I was the Emperor of South India.
Now my wife rules it.
I am God to many millions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._G._Ramachandr...

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#162656 Feb 9, 2013
MAAT wrote:
162605 SC answered. Apropos Moses: recall that the story is written down in times of great stress.
----
MAAT wrote:
Alex wrote:
That's why I refer to this "hashem" as tribal, racist, sexist, bigoted, antigentile, mini slave god of non-gentiles who is ocncerned only with non-gentiles who wrote their own books.
end quote.
The "hashem" I refer to is NOT the TRUE GOD of Adam who would have not favoured just a few tribes or races.
I am not insulting the God/Hashem who created Adam, Abraham Isaac and Ishmael. I apologise if my post gave that impression.
I am criticising the writers who have managed to write books to suit their own needs.
-When it comes to merciless killing we have loads of verses in the "OT"..just numbers 31 alone is enough to make you sick and Moses does not come across as a caring kind man!

>>The problem is that with all those claims of ownership and often the quoting out of context none would actually understand any underlying meaning.

There is also another misconception about Abraham.
>>>there are many.
There a pureline Arabs among the ancestors of Abraham!
These are beign conveniently forgotten by writers who are bent on promoting their own cause.
Ironically Arab blood is already inside Abraham, Isaac and Jacob!!!!
Ishmael is not the father of arabs!
>>>On the latter i agree. But in the thread on messianism, I posted a study by Margoliouth.(Also in codex sinaiticus.1600...thread. just a few pages back) that would state that ancestors were previously not defined, since tribal adherence was more important. We see that reflected in the Hadith.
So only later would they attempt to sort it out. I gave it a go to. Impossible. Then i would have the Syrian claim on the arab heritage. As well as the definition of the early muslms, not by that term but with the term for immigrants. In Mekka and in Medina.
So it becomes more complex than previously thought.
And the issue of the setting aside/apart of the hanief of Abraham.

What is needed is unity of purpose when worshipping GOD.
All believers have equal rights and access to GOD who created all of us.
>>> And that is what is impossible since the definitions all differ.
You can't establish unity if you can't even get the most basic principle of your religion accross.
And people do not work like that. We all have in-and outgroups.
We identify with a certain culture.
The work we do even defines us, sets us aside in purpose.

No tribe race or nation has prefential access to GOD indefinitely.
>>>Why not?

Any GOD who prefers a race or tribe above all other humans for all time is NOT God in my view.
>>>that would however be the case if a god would define itself in that way.

I believe that Allah judges all humans not by tribe or race but by deed and piety.
>>>That seemed to have been the entire point.
---
I'll have to get back to a lot.
or rather point by point.
I'll post a quote to make the relationship and interwovenness clearer.

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