Who Is Allah?

There are 20 comments on the Aug 24, 2007, The Brussels Journal story titled Who Is Allah?. In it, The Brussels Journal reports that:

“Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? [...] What does God care what we call him?”

From the desk of Soeren Kern on Fri, 2007-08-24 11:56 Europeans love to mock the salience of religion in American society. via The Brussels Journal

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Brussels Journal.

bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#158409 Jan 11, 2013
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
I was trying to not humiliate you by exposing another contradiction and absurdity from Quran, but if you insist...
Quran 7:11
And We have certainly created you,[O Mankind], and given you [human] form. Then We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was not of those who prostrated.
It implies Iblis was an angel, being the order given to angels.
Quran 18:50 says Iblis is a jinn, which automatically contradict Quran 7:11
And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam," and they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was of the jinn and departed from the command of his Lord. Then will you take him and his descendants as allies other than Me while they are enemies to you? Wretched it is for the wrongdoers as an exchange.
We have some problems now:
1)Satan is an angel and therefore not a jinn
2) Or he is a jinn and therefore not an angel, which makes Allah unjust for blaming him for not obeying a command given to the angels and not to the jinn.
Let us see how you will come out from this mess
Read the whole Qur'aan, ignorant fool. Satan was also there besides the angels.

18:50 DOES NOT imply. Only ignorant fools imply.

Cheers
Buford

Hurricane, WV

#158410 Jan 11, 2013
bmz wrote:
My point was that Jesus acknowledged eternal damnation and introduced it. He acknowledged because he believed in HELL!
Braindead Muslim Zealot,

The point is that you are a liar.

You wrote, "Didn't Jesus talk about eternal damnation? The man always threatened everyone with that. Even if one called his brother fool, he threatened with eternal damnation."
Buford

Hurricane, WV

#158411 Jan 11, 2013
MUQ wrote:
Arabic is a fully developed language and was when the Quran was being revealed. I doubt if the lofty thoughts of Quran could be expressed in any other language of the world than Arabic!!
Which must be why when Mohammad's scribes were recording his dictations "from Allah." the words were missing diacritical marks that needed to be added later so as to "fix" the meaning of the words.

Umm...what exactly are the "lofty thoughts of Quran" that could NOT be expressed in any other language of the world than Arabic?

Perhaps you mean Qur'an 33:60 "Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy - a fierce slaughter - murdered, a horrible murdering."
rabbee yehoshooah adam

Denver, CO

#158412 Jan 11, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
otherwise is must write it as: diiux or dzux, which would both not represent the sound.
Romans (thanks Buford) would make -ii sound like | j|.
It's nothing to do with how jews named or precieved themselves.
(has anything ever since christianity became the vogue)
rabbee: well the letter j was concieved, by seperating the letter i into it's vowell and consonant forms. the j became the consonat, and the i remained as the vowel. so therefore it, would only be diux origionally. and there was quite a bit, of confusion over this at first.
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#158416 Jan 11, 2013
Buford wrote:
<quoted text>
Which must be why when Mohammad's scribes were recording his dictations "from Allah." the words were missing diacritical marks that needed to be added later so as to "fix" the meaning of the words.
Umm...what exactly are the "lofty thoughts of Quran" that could NOT be expressed in any other language of the world than Arabic?
Perhaps you mean Qur'an 33:60 "Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy - a fierce slaughter - murdered, a horrible murdering."

Have you ever read or seen any URDU book?

Do you find ANY PUNCTUATION marks in any URDU Book?

Can any one else but a man who know URDU can read these words without punctuation marks?

But if we want people who do not understand URDU to read URDU book, we should put punctuation marks and vowels so that they can read it.

The same is the case for Quran, to Original Arabs, no punctuation marks were needed, they could read it without these.

But when Non Arab people started accepting Islam and THEY tried to read Quran, they faced problems. That is WHY punctuation marks and dots were "invented" so that they find it "easy" to read.

And since people could still make mistakes by using punctuation marks by themselves, that is why only "Authentic Reciters" who had learned Quran from companions of prophet, were allowed to teach people as to where to place which punctuation mark.

Can any one show any other book in the world, which was preserved in so elaborate a fashion?

there is no way in which one can satisfy the "disease" in the hearts of people, but to a logical and reasonable mind, any amount of fair investigations, would make him realize that Quran is preserved in its pristine condition, like no other book on the face of earth.

But I do not understand, when you do not believe in any religion, why you keep on asking these questions? Why you pretend sometime that you are Christian and some time as you are an atheist and some time as a Buddhist?

Why you waste your time and others in these useless and purposeless discussions?

What I told you about URDU, you will forget and keep on repeating the same objection to some one else!
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#158417 Jan 12, 2013
Buford wrote:
<quoted text>
Which must be why when Mohammad's scribes were recording his dictations "from Allah." the words were missing diacritical marks that needed to be added later so as to "fix" the meaning of the words.
Umm...what exactly are the "lofty thoughts of Quran" that could NOT be expressed in any other language of the world than Arabic?
Perhaps you mean Qur'an 33:60 "Truly, if the Hypocrites stir up sedition, if the agitators in the City do not desist, We shall urge you to go against them and set you over them. Then they will not be able to stay as your neighbors for any length of time. They shall have a curse on them. Whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain without mercy - a fierce slaughter - murdered, a horrible murdering."
When you speak English, do you mention commas colon and full stops, you ignorant fool?

A sample to show how you talk. Jesus said (Comma)(Inverted Comma)I am going where you cannot come(Stop) The people said (Comma)(Inverted Comma)We don't know where is he going(Question Mark)

And by the way, if commas, colons, semi-colons and inverted commas, etc., are not inserted in the English text, would you be able to understand?

Try this:

"Jesus said I am going where you cannot come the people said we don't know where is he going they thought he was going to die"

Can you understand this easily? Can you or you cannot?
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#158418 Jan 12, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you ever read or seen any URDU book?
Do you find ANY PUNCTUATION marks in any URDU Book?
Can any one else but a man who know URDU can read these words without punctuation marks?
But if we want people who do not understand URDU to read URDU book, we should put punctuation marks and vowels so that they can read it.
The same is the case for Quran, to Original Arabs, no punctuation marks were needed, they could read it without these.
But when Non Arab people started accepting Islam and THEY tried to read Quran, they faced problems. That is WHY punctuation marks and dots were "invented" so that they find it "easy" to read.
And since people could still make mistakes by using punctuation marks by themselves, that is why only "Authentic Reciters" who had learned Quran from companions of prophet, were allowed to teach people as to where to place which punctuation mark.
Can any one show any other book in the world, which was preserved in so elaborate a fashion?
there is no way in which one can satisfy the "disease" in the hearts of people, but to a logical and reasonable mind, any amount of fair investigations, would make him realize that Quran is preserved in its pristine condition, like no other book on the face of earth.
But I do not understand, when you do not believe in any religion, why you keep on asking these questions? Why you pretend sometime that you are Christian and some time as you are an atheist and some time as a Buddhist?
Why you waste your time and others in these useless and purposeless discussions?
What I told you about URDU, you will forget and keep on repeating the same objection to some one else!
Jesus had the fools Thomas and Philip. We have Buford.

Salaams, MUQ. lol!
MUQ

Jubail, Saudi Arabia

#158420 Jan 12, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus had the fools Thomas and Philip. We have Buford.
Salaams, MUQ. lol!
Our Bufford is different from Thomas and Philips. They had genuine doubts and when Jesus cleared it, they believed in it whole hardheartedly.

Our Bufford is only to get mental relaxation on these forums, he is not in the market for any knowledge or to understand some things.

He goes on and one in never ending question and answer session. And after 1000 such posts, goes back to point # 1 to repeat the same cycle.

He wastes his time as well as others and creates doubts in the minds of those people who do not have enough knowledge.

they might be "impressed" by "Authentic looking" quotations from verses of Quran!!

Salaam.

MUQ
Tom

Indonesia

#158421 Jan 12, 2013
kandoor wrote:
<quoted text>
why did allah ask satan to bown down to adam?
surely only allah is worthy of such devotion?
God ask angels and satan to bow down to Adam is to respect to him (adam) as a perfect creation. But satan disobey Him and said that he's greater than adam because he was created from a smokeless fire while adam is just from dirts. It doesnt mean Allah asked them to worship Adam.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#158422 Jan 12, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
What is the criterion for a certain language to be FIT for scripture?
And which is the language, which can be translated by a SINGLE word into another language?
Have you opened ANY English dictionary? Did you not find one word having So Many Different meanings? Is there a SINGLE English word that has only ONE meaning?
So why only Arabic should be exempt from this?
Arabic is a fully developed language and was when the Quran was being revealed. I doubt if the lofty thoughts of Quran could be expressed in any other language of the world than Arabic!!
There are many Arabic words that CANNOT be translated by a single English word. Like the word TAHARA? There is no single English word to translate it!!
Now coming to translation of Quran into English or any other language, when Translators do their job, THEY pick up the most relevant word from the foreign language , which in THEIR mind is closest to the revealed Arabic word.
So it is the act of Translators and not from God, and depending on the knowledge and understanding of the translator, it could be correct or faulty.
And in case of any error or mistake it is the mistake of Translator and not Arabic language.
And Muslims always print Arabic original Quran side by side with the English Translation, so any one can cross check.
And Arabic is a Living language of the world, not a Dead language or a language which very few people speak, like Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, or Sanskrit!!
Allah Knows Best.
You became the lawyer of arabic language, but you missed my point.

Bmz was trying to elevate arabic over any other language, and I told him arabic isn't better or worst than many such Latin and Greek.

Ask to him what is criterion to enstablish which language is better than another.

You're right when you say there are arabic words that cannot be translated into English, and from my personal experience I can say there are English words that cannot be translated into Italian and vice versa and I'm sure there are English words that cannot be translated into arabic.

You touched an issue very important, why certain translators translate a word giving a meaning rather than another. Reading the Quran (English translation) and dealing with Muslims I learnt that Muslims tend to accept the translation that more make sense, rather the one who expose the fraud. One day out of curiosity I wanted to check onto arabic dictionary what was the main meaning for that arabic word and guess what, the meaning was something that the Muslims on net denied its meaning.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#158423 Jan 12, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Read the whole Qur'aan, ignorant fool. Satan was also there besides the angels.
18:50 DOES NOT imply. Only ignorant fools imply.
Cheers
Who ever said that 18:50 implies anything?

Do you read and understand english, don't ya?

I have found it and reported it yet that Iblis is Satan in this post. Take a deep breath now: REPOSTING

"I was trying to not humiliate you by exposing another contradiction and absurdity from Quran, but if you insist...

Quran 7:11

And We have certainly created you,[O Mankind], and given you [human] form. Then We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was not of those who prostrated.

It implies Iblis was an angel, being the order given to angels.

Quran 18:50 says Iblis is a jinn, which automatically contradicts Quran 7:11

And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam," and they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was of the jinn and departed from the command of his Lord. Then will you take him and his descendants as allies other than Me while they are enemies to you? Wretched it is for the wrongdoers as an exchange.

We have some problems now:

1)Satan is an angel and therefore not a jinn

2) Or he is a jinn and therefore not an angel, which makes Allah unjust for blaming him for not obeying a command given to the angels and not to the jinn.

Let us see how you will come out from this mess"
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#158425 Jan 12, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
Now we are into stereotypes and bigotry. I don't have a "Jewish Nose". Neither does my wife or my kids or my son's wife. Where does this stereotype of others come from Hugh? The "Jewish Nose" stereotype was used in Nazi propoganda to cause derision. Is that what you are doing, Hugh?
Eric---Now we are into stereotypes and bigotry.

HughBe--- rabbi, be yourself. Truth and wisdom are not gifts given to you and other rabbis, speaking collectively.

Eric--I don't have a "Jewish Nose".

HughBe--- Some will say that such is the case because you are not a full Jew.

My points are repeated below with significant ADDITIONS for your LEARNING.

1.Judaism/religion does NOT give the Jews their DNA. Jewish DNA testings are NOT done to determine RELIGION.The tests are done to determine RACE.

2.RACE/LINEAGE gives Jews their DNA. Recall, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob/Israel etc. that is LINEAGE/race.

3.Jews are a RACE of people.

4.Judaism is a RELIGION and its members are Judahites.

5.Judaism/religion does NOT give the Jews a JEWISH NOSE.

6.RACE gives Jews, JEWISH NOSES

7. Jews were in existence LONG before Moses got the law.

8. God made a COVENANT with a people KNOWN as Israel/Jews.

9. The LAW or COVENANT did NOT make them Jews they were ALREADY Jews

10. Jews existed over a 1000 years before Judaism.

11. When Jews leave Judaism their DNA do NOT change.

12. When Jews leave Judaism they REMAIN the SEED of Abraham, Isaac and Israel and there is NOTHING that you and other rabbis can do about that REALITY.

13. When a CONVERT leaves Judaism, is s/he still a spiritual Jew? NO, NO, NO!

14. When a Jew,seed of Israel, leaves Judaism is s/he still a Jew. YES. The DNA does not change. Only DECEIVERS don't get this.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#158426 Jan 12, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
Getting insaner by the post.
Mormones believed that when they took (stole) black and native american kids that they would turn white. And white was good ofcourse.
Then someone else named 'jew' as a skincolour.
So hugh is jealouse of the detente between Eric and BMZ or changed his religion to get rid of his arab nose.(As in the pictures on pamphlets in hitlers days always showed the typical arab nose.)
But given that he is mixed jewish-afro, he has an issue with his jewish nose.
Find a (nose) shrink is my suggestion.
Why is jewish seen as race? Well because f.i. the vatican and national socialists defined it as such. Russians never went along with that.
But given that one can simply be prosecuted, even though one is not distinct in appearance from the majority around one, simply because of birth and classification, it is just fitting to spit at one and all and then simply declare oneself as a race and a culture and a religion and why the hell not a colour too. Just to spite the entire crazy world.
Judahite would either be a fervent religious person as f.i. zealots or essenes or one in favour of the judean state millennia ago.
Maat--Getting insaner by the post.

HughBe---Hi Maat, greetings and the very best for 2013.

Having said that, I take comfort in knowing that I am NOT totally insane, unlike YOU. Let me help you, you speak of GETTING and this means that I am NOT there but the reality is that you are NOT getting you are already there i.e. totally INSANE.

Much love, HughBe.
bmz

Since: Mar 08

Singapore

#158427 Jan 12, 2013
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
Who ever said that 18:50 implies anything?
Do you read and understand english, don't ya?
I have found it and reported it yet that Iblis is Satan in this post. Take a deep breath now: REPOSTING
"I was trying to not humiliate you by exposing another contradiction and absurdity from Quran, but if you insist...
Quran 7:11
And We have certainly created you,[O Mankind], and given you [human] form. Then We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam"; so they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was not of those who prostrated.
It implies Iblis was an angel, being the order given to angels.
Quran 18:50 says Iblis is a jinn, which automatically contradicts Quran 7:11
And [mention] when We said to the angels, "Prostrate to Adam," and they prostrated, except for Iblees. He was of the jinn and departed from the command of his Lord. Then will you take him and his descendants as allies other than Me while they are enemies to you? Wretched it is for the wrongdoers as an exchange.
We have some problems now:
1)Satan is an angel and therefore not a jinn
2) Or he is a jinn and therefore not an angel, which makes Allah unjust for blaming him for not obeying a command given to the angels and not to the jinn.
Let us see how you will come out from this mess"
So, where does Qur'aan say that Satan was an angel? Verse please!

I already brought you out of the mess in your mind. Read the post again:

http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TT8...
Buford

Hurricane, WV

#158428 Jan 12, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you ever read or seen any URDU book?
Do you find ANY PUNCTUATION marks in any URDU Book?
Can any one else but a man who know URDU can read these words without punctuation marks?
But if we want people who do not understand URDU to read URDU book, we should put punctuation marks and vowels so that they can read it.
The same is the case for Quran, to Original Arabs, no punctuation marks were needed, they could read it without these.
But when Non Arab people started accepting Islam and THEY tried to read Quran, they faced problems. That is WHY punctuation marks and dots were "invented" so that they find it "easy" to read.
And since people could still make mistakes by using punctuation marks by themselves, that is why only "Authentic Reciters" who had learned Quran from companions of prophet, were allowed to teach people as to where to place which punctuation mark.
Can any one show any other book in the world, which was preserved in so elaborate a fashion?
there is no way in which one can satisfy the "disease" in the hearts of people, but to a logical and reasonable mind, any amount of fair investigations, would make him realize that Quran is preserved in its pristine condition, like no other book on the face of earth.
But I do not understand, when you do not believe in any religion, why you keep on asking these questions? Why you pretend sometime that you are Christian and some time as you are an atheist and some time as a Buddhist?
Why you waste your time and others in these useless and purposeless discussions?
What I told you about URDU, you will forget and keep on repeating the same objection to some one else!
If someone learns how to read URDU, he learns to read it as it is written by those who know how to write URDU, "punctuation marks" and all, period.

Assuming that Caliph Uthman knew how to READ Arabic when he was rounding up the variant Qur'ans in an effort to produce one final authoritative version, I wonder how many of these "Authentic Reciters" of the Qur'an that he must have gathered together also knew how to READ Arabic, so that they wouldn't have to take his word for it, for example, that the letter X in the Qur'an means the same as X! when it is pronounced but not the same as !X.

Of course, the "Authentic Reciters" would have to all be in agreement about what Allah/Jibreel/Mohammad's Arabic SOUNDED LIKE even BEFORE they tried tackling its written form WITHOUT "puntuation marks."

Your argument is unconvincing.
__________
I don't recall ever pretending to be an atheist.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#158430 Jan 12, 2013
You are making one step forward and two steps back.
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
So, where does Qur'aan say that Satan was an angel? Verse please!
I quoted that yesterday, and even another person named SanBee did the same quoting more verses than I did.
You are making the same mistake of Quran 2:62 VS Quran 4:150-151, taking one and leave out the other and Mr or Mrs faith busted you so well.
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>I already brought you out of the mess in your mind. Read the post again:
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/islam/TT8...
I think it's the other way around, I brought you out of the mess in your mind, but you don't like when someone expose contradiction from Quran so you keep lie and deny.
In the other post you accused to have said Quran 18:50 say something implicitly, and I pointed out to you I never said that and that that verse explicitly say he jinn in contradiction with the verse brought by me and SanBee.
uhuh

Valencia, Spain

#158431 Jan 12, 2013
Maimonides' compilation of halacha, Mishneh Torah, is the main citation when it comes to the claim that "gentiles who keep the seven mitzvot have a share in the world-to-come"

however, most gentiles are not aware that in the same book there iss another halacha: "deniers of Torah such as the Muslims and Christians do not have a share in the world-to-come"

show some hide some
uhuh

Valencia, Spain

#158432 Jan 12, 2013
angels were made of light (Sahih Muslim)
jinns were made of fire (15:27)
Iblis was made of fire (7:12)
"Iblis he is of the jinns" (18:50)

a matter of simple deduction: Iblis and angels are different
uhuh

Valencia, Spain

#158433 Jan 12, 2013
"Ibn Abbas said: Before Iblis sinned, his name was Azazil" (Tafsir Ibn Kathir)

the 2 goats on Yom Kipur; one is "for YHWH", the other is "for Azazel"
uhuh

Valencia, Spain

#158435 Jan 12, 2013
the idea of fallen angels came from Jewish sources,

"Satan, yetzer ha-ra and the angel of death are one and the same" (Baba Bathra 16a)

also read the two fallen angels Uzza and Uziel
the sons of God who mated with female humans (their children were nephilim giants)

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