Polygamy is harmful to society, scholar finds

Jul 17, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Vancouver Sun

Increased crime, prostitution and anti-social behaviour. Greater inequality between men and women.

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#1
Jul 17, 2010
 
Man oh man oh man, stupid thinks, stupid writes.

All of the basic protests this so called scholar has of polygamy and it's effects can be found in monogomous relationships with kids.
But his one over all point was this... "And the studies Henrich cites -from historical, frontier-American research to contemporary work done in countries where polygamy is legal -indicate that groups of unmarried men create havoc." ...groups of unmarried men create havoc? Like that isn't happening in monogomous societies? Is this guy fricking nuts or just walking with a few loose screws? lolol.
Father paul

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#2
Jul 17, 2010
 
Look at the credentials of the author, the purpose of the report, and the nature of the canadian society.
ohio

Waverly, OH

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#3
Jul 18, 2010
 
Every study that has ever been done of polygamy says it is a bad relationship.
It's bad for the women and children ALWAYS

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#4
Jul 18, 2010
 
ohio wrote:
Every study that has ever been done of polygamy says it is a bad relationship.
It's bad for the women and children ALWAYS
I believe you believe it. But given police reports of all the violence and seperations and divorces and mental, physical and sexual abuses that go on in monogomous relationships, from spouse to spouse and to children and from children to children, and he could make the same exact findings about monogomy being harmful to society. Understand? Plus he got paid a chunk of money by the side that wanted to read a report that had nothing but bad things about polygamy and he gave them one.
Read between the lines when a shrink speaks.

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#5
Jul 18, 2010
 
To read between the lines when a shrink speaks one needs to listen carefully. This profession doesn't have one of the highest suicide rates for nothing.
Let's change some of this article and see how it reads ok?
..........
Monogamy is harmful to society, scholar finds

By Daphne Bramham, Vancouver Sun July 17, 2010

Increased crime, prostitution and anti-social behaviour. Greater inequality between men and women. Less parental investment in children. And, a general driving down of the age of marriage for all women.

These are some of the harms of monogamy since it is a man (or woman) marrying a woman (or man) that are outlined in a 45-page research paper by noted Canadian scholar Joseph Henrich.

Henrich is uniquely qualified to look at monogamy's harm. He's a member of the departments of economics, psychology and anthropology at the University of British Columbia and holds the Canada Research Chair in Culture, Cognition and Coevolution.

But he'd never really thought about it until this year when Craig Jones approached him. Jones is the lead lawyer in the B.C. government's constitutional reference case, which will be heard in November by B.C. Supreme Court Chief Justice Robert Bauman about doing away with marriage or monogamous marriages.

Now, Henrich's conclusions form part of the intellectual and evidentiary underpinning for the province's argument that even if outlawing monogamy breaches freedom and freedom of expression, it's justified.

In addition to Henrich's paper, the government has filed or will be filing affidavits from other specialists in the history of Western monogamy, Islamic law, psychology and medicine.

Fifteen former monogamous couples (all divorced) have provided video testimony about their experiences growing up in monogamous families and of their own monogamous marriages in communities in Canada and the United States.

To illustrate the harm, Henrich provides the court with an example of monogamous cruel arithmetic.

In a hypothetical society of 20 men and 20 women, 12 men with the highest status marry 12 women.(It's always only the highest-ranking men in monogamous societies that get the best wife with additional women they have for extra-marital relationships.)

Then, the top five take a second woman for an affair and top two men take up to 3 women for affairs. Finally, the top guy takes upwards of four women for affairs.

The result is that 58 per cent of the marriages are anything but monogamous relationships. We might as well be talking about polygamy!
But -and this is the big deal -it means 40 per cent of the men remain unmarried because so many "single" women are in extra-marital affairs and are not looking for another relationship.
Yes, 40 per cent.

Continued.....

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#6
Jul 18, 2010
 
Continued....part 2 of article.
..........
And Henrich's example is conservative.

And the studies Henrich cites -from historical, frontier-American research to contemporary work done in countries where monogamy is legal -indicate that groups of unmarried men create havoc.

"For males, not getting married is a prophylactic against engaging in crime, social disruption and other socially undesirable activities, perpetuated by monogamy," he writes.

In India and China, where female-biased sex selection has resulted in more women than men, researchers found "socially monogamous bands that compete ferociously and engage in aggressive, violent and anti-social activities."

China's one-child policy resulted in the number of "surplus" women nearly doubling ... along with the crime rates. In a recent study, researchers there concluded that for every 0.01 increase in sex ratio, property and violent crimes rise by three per cent.

In India, the state of Kerala's murder rate is half that of Uttar Pradesh. The reason? Kerala's female-to-male ratio is 97:100; Uttar Pradesh's is 112:100.

Another social harm that Henrich says is consistent regardless of whether researchers use data from 19th-century communities or contemporary African societies is that children from monogamous families have considerably lower survival rates. It seems socially monogamous men, rather than investing in their offspring, use their money to add extra-marital affairs.

"Bachelorhood seems to direct male motivations in ways that create lower crime rates, greater wealth (GDP) per capita and better outcomes for children," Henrich concludes.

But what's more surprising than his conclusions is his speculation that bachelorhood is at the root of democracy and equality.

He argues that as the idea of bachelorhood spread through Europe during the 15th century, king and peasant alike had the same rules and the idea of equality gained a foothold -- at least among men.

With increased competition for women from socially monogamous men, they began loosening their tight control over wives and daughters.

And with fewer married men, the pool of soldiers that had previously been harnessed by warring rulers was reduced.

Even though this compelling argument goes far beyond the scope of the trial, it may make it even harder for monogamy's advocates to convince the judge that its practice is benign.
ohio

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#7
Jul 19, 2010
 
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe you believe it. But given police reports of all the violence and seperations and divorces and mental, physical and sexual abuses that go on in monogomous relationships, from spouse to spouse and to children and from children to children, and he could make the same exact findings about monogomy being harmful to society. Understand? Plus he got paid a chunk of money by the side that wanted to read a report that had nothing but bad things about polygamy and he gave them one.
Read between the lines when a shrink speaks.
What you aren't saying is that in monogamy it is a common thing for these things to happen such as divorces, however it is not allowed to happen at the FLDS Prison. Women do not have the choice of who they marry, much less even have the knowledge of how to get out of a marriage they don't want to be in. They have to live with the abuse and are not taught that they do not deserve it or that they have a choice of not taking it. Divorce is a good thing sometimes, you see? It's a lot better than living in abusive relationships.
Why aren't the women allowed to have several husbands is what i want to know, when are they going to be equal to the men?
xix

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#8
Jul 19, 2010
 
I've known people in both polygamous and polyandrous relationships and whether there was anything harmful about them was relative to each situation.

Mormons however, force underage girls to marry much older men. This is child abuse at its most heinous.

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#9
Jul 19, 2010
 
ohio wrote:
<quoted text>
What you aren't saying is that in monogamy it is a common thing for these things to happen such as divorces, however it is not allowed to happen at the FLDS Prison. Women do not have the choice of who they marry, much less even have the knowledge of how to get out of a marriage they don't want to be in. They have to live with the abuse and are not taught that they do not deserve it or that they have a choice of not taking it. Divorce is a good thing sometimes, you see? It's a lot better than living in abusive relationships.
Why aren't the women allowed to have several husbands is what i want to know, when are they going to be equal to the men?
First, you are incorrect to believe that all polygamous marriages are based on abuse and terror, etc. That is media brain-washing rehortic and you believe it. Those abusive type relationships are of a minority. The greater majority of polygamous relationships come with the same features monogomus relationships have. The following is for you :)

Hmong Communities

The prevalence of polygamy continue in the communities with heavy Hmong populations, more than 25 years after Hmong began arriving in the United States. No one has been able to put a finger on the number of people involved in polygamous families in Minnesota. The state has about 42,000 Hmong, including more than 24,000 in St. Paul, the largest Hmong population of any American city. The Hmong aided the CIA in Laos during the Vietnam war and came to the United States as refugees. There are estimates between 270 and 450 men are practicing polygamy in Minnesota, each with an average of two wives and 14 children. That would be as many as 7,600 men, women and children who are living in polygamous families. clans still support arranged marriages, and most husbands are still expected to pay a bride price ranging from $6,000 to upwards of $10,000.

The 2000 U.S. Census counted 169,428 Hmong in the United States, a 90 percent jump from 1990. But the Hmong Studies Resource Center in St. Paul, Minn., which compiles demographic data, contends the actual number of Hmong in the United States is double that. According to the census, North Carolina had 7,100 Hmong; state and local officials, along with Hmong leaders, put the actual number at more like 20,000.

The Tarheel State ranks fourth in Hmong population, behind California (66,000), Minnesota (42,000) and Wisconsin (34,000), the Census Bureau says; There are communities in Utah, California and other western states as well.

Independents:
Mormon Fundamentalist and Christian Polygamists.

An independent is an individual family or group of families who are not technically organized but may have similar beliefs with some variations from family to family. Approximately another 50,000 Independents separate of these large organizations inhabit the State of Utah.
Father paul

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#10
Jul 19, 2010
 
Ohio, when you become the leader of a religion you can have as many husbands as you desire. The FLDS follow their religious teachings, not yours.
ohio

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#11
Jul 19, 2010
 
Father paul wrote:
Ohio, when you become the leader of a religion you can have as many husbands as you desire. The FLDS follow their religious teachings, not yours.
Gee thank you , I can do that as it is easy to start a religion and make up your own rules as you go. Then you can murder someone and say oh that's my religion, and expect to get by with it.
BAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA
ohio

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#12
Jul 19, 2010
 

Judged:

1

No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
First, you are incorrect to believe that all polygamous marriages are based on abuse and terror, etc. That is media brain-washing rehortic and you believe it. Those abusive type relationships are of a minority. The greater majority of polygamous relationships come with the same features monogomus relationships have. The following is for you :)
Hmong Communities
The prevalence of polygamy continue in the communities with heavy Hmong populations, more than 25 years after Hmong began arriving in the United States. No one has been able to put a finger on the number of people involved in polygamous families in Minnesota. The state has about 42,000 Hmong, including more than 24,000 in St. Paul, the largest Hmong population of any American city. The Hmong aided the CIA in Laos during the Vietnam war and came to the United States as refugees. There are estimates between 270 and 450 men are practicing polygamy in Minnesota, each with an average of two wives and 14 children. That would be as many as 7,600 men, women and children who are living in polygamous families. clans still support arranged marriages, and most husbands are still expected to pay a bride price ranging from $6,000 to upwards of $10,000.
The 2000 U.S. Census counted 169,428 Hmong in the United States, a 90 percent jump from 1990. But the Hmong Studies Resource Center in St. Paul, Minn., which compiles demographic data, contends the actual number of Hmong in the United States is double that. According to the census, North Carolina had 7,100 Hmong; state and local officials, along with Hmong leaders, put the actual number at more like 20,000.
The Tarheel State ranks fourth in Hmong population, behind California (66,000), Minnesota (42,000) and Wisconsin (34,000), the Census Bureau says; There are communities in Utah, California and other western states as well.
Independents:
Mormon Fundamentalist and Christian Polygamists.
An independent is an individual family or group of families who are not technically organized but may have similar beliefs with some variations from family to family. Approximately another 50,000 Independents separate of these large organizations inhabit the State of Utah.
I said FLDS PRISON. Read it again.
But anyway it is abuse plain and simple no getting around that FACT. Whether they want to admit it or not it is abuse at it's finest, and the men only use it as an excuse to screw around with lots of women.
Only a weak woman would ever agree to such living conditions. Very weak and sick in the head.
xix

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#13
Jul 19, 2010
 
ohio wrote:
<quoted text>
Gee thank you , I can do that as it is easy to start a religion and make up your own rules as you go.
BAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAA
That's how all the others did it.

....And having lot of very gullible friends is also a plus!
ohio

Waverly, OH

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#14
Jul 19, 2010
 
xix wrote:
<quoted text>
That's how all the others did it.
....And having lot of very gullible friends is also a plus!
Yep, they sure do get all the stupid people they can to brainwash to their ideas of sex with many partners, the younger the better.
Intelligent people can not be brain washed like this.
Any church that is started by a man to worship is not a church, but a cult. I worship NO MAN ever.

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#15
Jul 19, 2010
 
ohio wrote:
<quoted text>
I said FLDS PRISON. Read it again.
But anyway it is abuse plain and simple no getting around that FACT. Whether they want to admit it or not it is abuse at it's finest, and the men only use it as an excuse to screw around with lots of women.
Only a weak woman would ever agree to such living conditions. Very weak and sick in the head.
I did read it. I ignored it. It is a prison in your opinion. And you know what they say about opinions :)
On the other hand, the people raised in those religious sects, they get the local newspapers and such media. They think we live in a prison. They see we willingly subject ourselves to murderers, rapists, crooked politicians, thiefs, bigotry, racism, etc. That we have to lock ourselves in our homes and apartments just to be safe so strangers won't get in and attack, harm, rob and or kill us. they see us as the people in a self contained prison full of evil and hate and discord and violence etc.
Point being is everything has two directions to view it from. Your garden of Eden may look like a garbage pit to someone else :)

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#16
Jul 19, 2010
 
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I did read it. I ignored it. It is a prison in your opinion. And you know what they say about opinions :)
On the other hand, the people raised in those religious sects, they get the local newspapers and such media. They think we live in a prison. They see we willingly subject ourselves to murderers, rapists, crooked politicians, thiefs, bigotry, racism, etc. That we have to lock ourselves in our homes and apartments just to be safe so strangers won't get in and attack, harm, rob and or kill us. they see us as the people in a self contained prison full of evil and hate and discord and violence etc.
Point being is everything has two directions to view it from. Your garden of Eden may look like a garbage pit to someone else :)
Umm, no. They don't see news. Aren't you a bi-guy? Seriously, what the hell are you doing besides totally missing debate club?
ohio

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#17
Jul 19, 2010
 
No Surprise wrote:
<quoted text>
I did read it. I ignored it. It is a prison in your opinion. And you know what they say about opinions :)
On the other hand, the people raised in those religious sects, they get the local newspapers and such media. They think we live in a prison. They see we willingly subject ourselves to murderers, rapists, crooked politicians, thiefs, bigotry, racism, etc. That we have to lock ourselves in our homes and apartments just to be safe so strangers won't get in and attack, harm, rob and or kill us. they see us as the people in a self contained prison full of evil and hate and discord and violence etc.
Point being is everything has two directions to view it from. Your garden of Eden may look like a garbage pit to someone else :)
They are in a prison. Locked gates and wire fences around it to keep them inside.
The place is full of rapist,and child molesters and they have no escape from them. IMO there have been more than one murder in this place also. Blood atonement? Ring a bell?
There is a big difference in how it is viewed by me.
My view is legal
Their view is not legal.

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#18
Jul 19, 2010
 
NoMo wrote:
<quoted text>
Umm, no. They don't see news. Aren't you a bi-guy? Seriously, what the hell are you doing besides totally missing debate club?
Get a clue. The leader of these sects allows the people to read certain things that prove how evil and sinful the outside world is. They even allow certain electronic forms of media when they really want to make a point. These people are also allowed into the nearby town to do shopping and such. They see and hear and buy magazines and papers when out and read them. Go visit a town near a sect if your in doubt. Watch and observe.

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#19
Jul 19, 2010
 
ohio wrote:
<quoted text>
They are in a prison. Locked gates and wire fences around it to keep them inside.
The place is full of rapist,and child molesters and they have no escape from them. IMO there have been more than one murder in this place also. Blood atonement? Ring a bell?
There is a big difference in how it is viewed by me.
My view is legal
Their view is not legal.
No, your view isn't legal, it's full of bias and prejudicism. But I agree there is a big difference in how you view it. You have sex offenders in your neighborhood and or near by neighborhoods. You have rapists and murderers and thieves and baby rapers and child molesters that live all about you who haven't been caught yet. You lock yourself up tight as a drum at night and almost as secure in the day time I bet, just like them. Your prison walls just have different shapes. They have less crime happening then you could ever hope to not be around.
But I understand your need to pass judgement from a window covered with mud :)

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#20
Jul 19, 2010
 
ohio wrote:
<quoted text>
They are in a prison. Locked gates and wire fences around it to keep them inside.
The place is full of rapist,and child molesters and they have no escape from them. IMO there have been more than one murder in this place also. Blood atonement? Ring a bell?
There is a big difference in how it is viewed by me.
My view is legal
Their view is not legal.
And in case you want to argue the point, as of 2007, there were 18 sex offenders in and around Waverly which you list as home. And as of 2010 in Pike county there are 49 sex offenders. Care for me to do a crime statistic search of your county to? Not all smells great in your end of Eden either huh :)

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