Archaeological Discoveries on Mount Ararat Confront Attacks and Bias

Dec 16, 2011 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: SBWire

Joel Klenck, reported there was archaeological merit to a large wood structure and cave discovered near the summit of Mount Ararat by a Kurdish guide, Ahmet "Parasut" Ertugrul.

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Michael Lanier Swift

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#1
Dec 16, 2011
 
This is going to be a lot bigger story than it first appears to be.
Michael Lanier Swift

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#2
Dec 16, 2011
 
Unfortunately, it seems that the story has gotten the axe on all fronts for some reason.
Michael Lanier Swift

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#3
Dec 16, 2011
 
For those interesting in reading (that has apparently gotten the kill switch), I post it below from the cached internet archive for archival purposes.

[Miami, FL --(SBWIRE)-- 12/16/2011 -- In November of 2011, Harvard University educated archaeologist and Director of the Paleontological Research Corporation, Dr. Joel Klenck, reported there was archaeological merit to a large wood structure and cave discovered near the summit of Mount Ararat by a Kurdish guide, Ahmet “Parasut” Ertugrul. In 2010, Oktay Belli, Professor of Eurasian Archaeology at Istanbul University, hailed the finds as the “greatest discovery.” However, Klenck states these archaeological sites confront severe bias. He adds,“If an ancient wood structure was found in Alaska and associated with Clovis artifacts, the site would be celebrated; however, because this structure is found on Mount Ararat and associated with Noah’s ark, the discoveries are being attacked.”

Klenck notes that a small tourism company in eastern Turkey, Murat Camping, has acquired hundreds of thousands of dollars from groups searching for Noah’s ark and is trying to discredit or harass those supporting research at actual archaeological sites on Mount Ararat. He states,“Murat Camping comprises a convicted murderer, Saim Sahin, and his American partner, Amy Beam. This group has provided false information to ark searchers such as Randall Price and Don Patton, who have reported that Professor Belli and Turkish government officials are supporting a hoax.” Klenck counters that these allegations are false as the research area on Mount Ararat comprises “factual archaeological sites.” He continues that Randall Price and others raise large sums of money from various churches and private donors, who utilize Murat Camping for their ark expeditions. He states,“Once the Ararat sites become state-approved excavations in Turkey, many can volunteer to work at the Ararat sites or study the artifacts in museums or archaeological journals…meanwhile Murat Camping stands to lose significant monies.” He continues:“This is the only case I am aware of where a tourism company has actively campaigned to prevent research at actual archaeological sites and vilify and harass archaeologists while attempting to preserve income from bogus expeditions.”

The archaeologist states that particular creationist communities from the United States and Australia are also adamantly opposed to the discoveries. He notes,“A group of creationists have built a theoretical framework and assumed that Noah’s ark would have dinosaur bones, Early Stone Age tools, Neanderthals, be completely fossilized or found between Cretaceous and Tertiary geological strata. That the large wood structure on Mount Ararat exhibits an assemblage that appears to be mostly from the Late Epipaleolithic Period (13,100-9,600 B.C.), roughly at the end of the Stone Age, is troubling to this group since the data contradicts their assumptions.” He is astounded that creationist communities that once desired the discovery of a large wood object on Mount Ararat are now disparaging actual archaeological sites at this locale.....]
Michael Lanier Swift

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#4
Dec 16, 2011
 
[.....Further, he remarks that many professional archaeologists have surprisingly followed these narrow creationist critiques and are ignoring the Ararat discoveries. Klenck notes,“Nearly all archaeologists today have been educated in secular academic institutions, where accounts in the Torah are treated as fabrications or myths. Also, the “New Archaeology”, a movement that was very popular in earlier decades, developed by the late Lewis Binford, disfavored using ancient manuscripts to explain archaeological assemblages.”“Now, that there is an ancient large wood structure on Mount Ararat that is allegedly associated with Noah’s ark,” he remarks,“most archaeologists are disregarding the sites without evaluating the data, despite that these locales contain archaeological features of great antiquity with well preserved assemblages.” In addition, he states,“Professional archaeologists do not realize that the biggest critics of the archaeological sites on Mount Ararat also object to the scientific discipline of archaeology and most archaeological research.”

The researcher also suggests that ethnic bias is affecting the analysis of the sites:“The Anatolian and Chinese discoverers are being described as gullible, unintelligent, frauds and alcoholics while their harshest critics, of mostly European descent, are described as credible.” He responds,“These depictions are untrue, unfair and prejudicial.” The archaeologist adds that news organizations have publicized these attitudes without noting these critics acquire substantial monies from meritless expeditions and possess their own personal or philosophical reasons for discounting the archaeological sites on Mount Ararat.

Klenck remarks,“Archaeological theories are based on facts and evidence and not on beliefs or faith. With the Ararat discoveries, we have well preserved archaeological sites and assemblages that appear to be from a period associated with the transition to farming, plant and animal domestication and stratified societies.” He concludes that although the association of the wood structure with Noah’s ark will be a much debated issue, the Ararat sites represent discoveries that are important to our knowledge of archaeology and prehistory.]

http://74.6.238.254/search/srp cache?ei=UTF-8&p=Archaeolo gical+Discoveries+on+Mount+Ara rat+Confront+Attacks+and+Bias &fr=yfp-t-701&fp_ip=cn &u=http://cc.bingj.com/cac he.aspx?q=Archaeological+Disco veries+on+Mount+Ararat+Confron t+Attacks+and+Bias&d=48330 3973269&mkt=en-US&setl ang=en-US&w=6d9eaa52,1f2e7 2f8&icp=1&.intl=us &sig=6Jw7z5nlSkwWoupkspMBT g--
Michael Lanier Swift

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#5
Dec 16, 2011
 
This is better than Raiders of the Lost Ark. I just imagine the scrambling going on right now.

Oh, and one more thing...why was the story cut?

I for one want to know just exactly what is going on at the Mt Ararat site. With this story and some of the other crazy archaeological rumors I've heard floating around it really is starting to look more like an Indiana Jones movie than disinterested archaeological research.
Lefcadio Helminth

Old Lyme, CT

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#6
Dec 16, 2011
 
Michael, Michael, Michael ... for heaven's sake, don't stop taking your medication! Look what happened last time, okay? The wooden structure on Mt. Arafat is the remains of a Ponderosa Steakhouse as many of the locals know. It definitely has some archaeological merit, but, alas, not very much. The cave? I think it's a good bet that in it they'll find Noah's filing cabinets, a huge pile of dry cleaning hangers, and the remains of the "mythical" animals (times 2) that didn't survive on the ark and didn't repopulate (griffin, hippogriff, jackalope, troutalope, camelephant, flying hat, grizzly crab, etc.). Now if they could only find Adam's dick ....
Michael Lanier Swift

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#7
Dec 16, 2011
 
Lefcadio Helminth wrote:
Michael, Michael, Michael ... for heaven's sake, don't stop taking your medication! Look what happened last time, okay? The wooden structure on Mt. Arafat is the remains of a Ponderosa Steakhouse as many of the locals know. It definitely has some archaeological merit, but, alas, not very much. The cave? I think it's a good bet that in it they'll find Noah's filing cabinets, a huge pile of dry cleaning hangers, and the remains of the "mythical" animals (times 2) that didn't survive on the ark and didn't repopulate (griffin, hippogriff, jackalope, troutalope, camelephant, flying hat, grizzly crab, etc.). Now if they could only find Adam's dick ....
You're forgetting the Unicorn.
Tony

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#8
Dec 16, 2011
 
I could never be desperate nor primitive minded enough to subscribe to any biblical account of anything however, an element of truth exists in ancient fables even if microscopic in size so I would love to examine these new discoveries as they may aid us in understanding humanity as well as our evolutionary tracks. I would also like to see the monkey brained idiots resolve their biased attitudes and come together as a species for the sake of preserving a new discovery. Grow up!!!
Michael Lanier Swift

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#9
Dec 16, 2011
 
Well, whatever position one takes on the whole Ararat issue (hopefully neutral and void of bias or prejudice), remembering some of the things that came out of independent French and American (dare I call them excavations?)'attempts' in the 1980s, the political red tape needs to be cut and the whole area should receive the sort of archaeological attention it has been crying for for decades. There's something up there, and it's something very big and something very secretive that certain powers that be do not want revealed or examined. I would like to know what that something is, because it belongs in a Museum.

I would also like to know why this story was cut.
Tony

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#10
Dec 16, 2011
 
I totally agree with you Mike.
Michael Lanier Swift

Nantong, China

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#11
Dec 16, 2011
 
Tony wrote:
I totally agree with you Mike.
You mention that it has been observed that often that is some core truth or at least nugatory indications within various mythological tales from the ancient past.

Now, not to get fanciful or speculative on this issue, especially since it is currently impossible through 'normal legal channels' to explore the area, but I seem to remember something from childhood of the lore about a certain cave where the legendary treasures of Adam and other artifacts were deposited after the time of the Ark.

I'm not trying to conjecture anything, I'm simply saying it is interesting that there is also a cave nearby that is apparently becoming interesting to Harvard archeology for some reason.

Since: Dec 11

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#12
Dec 16, 2011
 
Michael Lanier Swift wrote:
He adds,“If an ancient wood structure was found in Alaska and associated with Clovis artifacts, the site would be celebrated; however, because this structure is found on Mount Ararat and associated with Noah’s ark, the discoveries are being attacked.”
Maybe that's because someone declares that they've found Noah's ark on Mt. Ararat every other year. People have stopped listening.
Michael Lanier Swift

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#13
Dec 16, 2011
 
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe that's because someone declares that they've found Noah's ark on Mt. Ararat every other year. People have stopped listening.
Maybe they have stopped listening. My question is when did they start listening.

People have stopped listening to reports on an area that has never even been professionally excavated.

That is the dictionary definition of bias and prejudice.
Lefcadio Helminth

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#14
Dec 16, 2011
 
Michael, Michael, Michael ... now, now. Remember your little pills. And Michael, what's with the nugatory? C'mon. You're talking with knuckleheads here, proles who just crawled out from under a rock. Leave the nugatory in the same pocket you keep your ascot in. Do yourself a favor. I just want to add that anyone who still believes in Santa Clause and Bambi and the Little Mermaid and Sadam's WMD is free to believe in Noah's feckin' Ark and Adam's sodding Cave and the Scrap-Metal Fairy. But anyone of voting age who believes this shite is going to be hunted down and sterilized. Bronze Age texts make good college courses but dreadful, doltish, and disgusting manuals for living.
Tony

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#15
Dec 16, 2011
 
It seems vaguely familiar to me as well this cave legend you speak of. I usually research legends and compare them, seeking the same story but from a different perspective as well as from a predating source.
I believe there's legends of the fabled "Arc of the Covenant" also to of been hidden in a cave as I'm sure numerous other things of which I'm not familiar. Because the biblical accounts are primarily fables strewn together from a variety of times and cultures, I seriously cannot give creedance to a legendary "Noah's Arc" even if something exactly like it were to be discovered for like today's times, humans are very creative and even more so when it comes to proving "their god is better than your god" so when a discover of anything religious is unearthed, it must be taken into account that what has been found may be nothing other than someones efforts to prove their beliefs on a grandiose scale.
Michael Lanier Swift

Nantong, China

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#16
Dec 16, 2011
 
Lefcadio Helminth wrote:
Michael, Michael, Michael ... now, now. Remember your little pills. And Michael, what's with the nugatory? C'mon. You're talking with knuckleheads here, proles who just crawled out from under a rock. Leave the nugatory in the same pocket you keep your ascot in. Do yourself a favor. I just want to add that anyone who still believes in Santa Clause and Bambi and the Little Mermaid and Sadam's WMD is free to believe in Noah's feckin' Ark and Adam's sodding Cave and the Scrap-Metal Fairy. But anyone of voting age who believes this **** is going to be hunted down and sterilized. Bronze Age texts make good college courses but dreadful, doltish, and disgusting manuals for living.
The reports that have been coming from the region of Ararat for decades (and unjustly ignored or stifled through legalities) deserve scholarly and professional examination. Whatever it is up in those mountains deserves to be known to archeology, anthropology, comparative religion, the humanities, the world and posterity. It should be deemed a world heritage sight and treated accordingly.

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#17
Dec 16, 2011
 
Michael Lanier Swift wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe they have stopped listening. My question is when did they start listening.
People have stopped listening to reports on an area that has never even been professionally excavated.
That is the dictionary definition of bias and prejudice.
There's no bias and prejudice at work. This is a boy who has cried wolf a dozen times and no wolf has ever shown up.

Don't complain that the townspeople are biased for not being heavily interested in the wolf search.
Michael Lanier Swift

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#18
Dec 16, 2011
 
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>
There's no bias and prejudice at work. This is a boy who has cried wolf a dozen times and no wolf has ever shown up.
Don't complain that the townspeople are biased for not being heavily interested in the wolf search.
So you're admitting that the archaeological community (i.e., the townspeople) is biased. I agree with that. I also agree with Klenck and Harvard on that same note.

I'm glad you can admit that the archaeological community largely has become a group of biased townspeople and peasants instead of the disinterested, unbiased, unprejudiced scientific, professional explorers they were trained to be and should be.

Some of us think inside The_Box. Some of us don't.
Brain OClonnel

Old Lyme, CT

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#19
Dec 17, 2011
 
TONY! Get ye back to the grammar school! Whoa! You appear to want to come across as a wise, skeptical sort, a beard stroker, happy to weigh both sides of a question (as if the one side had any weight whatsoever) but you can't spell and you can't write a coherent sentence. Your "thoughts" wear clunky shoes that are way too big and thus they trip all over one another. Tony, you need to improve. I'd say 10 to 15 years minimum in academe. Is that an option? Or will your work always involve a strongish back? Good luck to you, son. Oh, and Noah had an "ark," a boat. The Ark of the Covenant is an actual box or chest. They are both ark with a "k." Hope that's not too confusing. An "arc" is something you would have learned about in geometry class had you not been in the school basement huffing spray paint with the janitor. And Michael "ace douchebag" Lanier "utterly lame know-it-all eejit" Swift, though there may be world heritage "sights," you were certainly referring to world heritage "sites." Mt Arafat and its burden of harebrained fables will never, never be one. You'd be a lot better off defending the Nazca Lines as runways for UFOs. There's some thinking outside the box for ya. Not remotely helpful, of course. Unless the microcephalic in you is in contact with our little friends from the Crab Nebula. And if so, please send them my fondest regards, would you?
Michael Lanier Swift

Nantong, China

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#20
Dec 17, 2011
 
Brain OClonnel wrote:
TONY! Get ye back to the grammar school! Whoa! You appear to want to come across as a wise, skeptical sort, a beard stroker, happy to weigh both sides of a question (as if the one side had any weight whatsoever) but you can't spell and you can't write a coherent sentence. Your "thoughts" wear clunky shoes that are way too big and thus they trip all over one another. Tony, you need to improve. I'd say 10 to 15 years minimum in academe. Is that an option? Or will your work always involve a strongish back? Good luck to you, son. Oh, and Noah had an "ark," a boat. The Ark of the Covenant is an actual box or chest. They are both ark with a "k." Hope that's not too confusing. An "arc" is something you would have learned about in geometry class had you not been in the school basement huffing spray paint with the janitor. And Michael "ace douchebag" Lanier "utterly lame know-it-all eejit" Swift, though there may be world heritage "sights," you were certainly referring to world heritage "sites." Mt Arafat and its burden of harebrained fables will never, never be one. You'd be a lot better off defending the Nazca Lines as runways for UFOs. There's some thinking outside the box for ya. Not remotely helpful, of course. Unless the microcephalic in you is in contact with our little friends from the Crab Nebula. And if so, please send them my fondest regards, would you?
Mmmmmm..no. When I drink brandy and eggnog for the holidays 'sites' mystically becomes 'sights'.

Is there a problem? You seem to be somewhat obsessing. Might be a symptom of sexual frustration.

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