Ethanol changes fuel strong reader reaction

[Ethanol Lover]

Give Ethanol a chance boys! You may not like it, bout OH YES, you will learn to LOVE IT! Its the best thing goin TODAAAY. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OO... WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

[Head Hunter]

To those educated in government schools and unable to think:

Corn is grown on land so using corn as a source of fuel further pollutes the planet as well as making food more expensive. It would be more environmentally friendly to drill for oil which is below ground and doesn’t take up a significant amount of land acreage.

We had ethanol in the late 70’s and got away from it due to cost and the corrosive effects it had on car engines.

The reason the democrats want ethanol is to line the pockets of their special interest group headed by Archer Daniels Midland. The democrats get hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign donations from this group. And who pays for it?

You do.

[real information]

Head Hunter wrote:

To those educated in government schools and unable to think:
Corn is grown on land so using corn as a source of fuel further pollutes the planet as well as making food more expensive. It would be more environmentally friendly to drill for oil which is below ground and doesn’t take up a significant amount of land acreage.
We had ethanol in the late 70’s and got away from it due to cost and the corrosive effects it had on car engines.
The reason the democrats want ethanol is to line the pockets of their special interest group headed by Archer Daniels Midland. The democrats get hundreds of thousands of dollars in campaign donations from this group. And who pays for it?
You do.

So what do my kids do twenty of thirty years from now when all the oil is gone?

[Claude]

real information wrote:

<quoted text>
So what do my kids do twenty of thirty years from now when all the oil is gone?

There is plenty of oil but the disadvantages of it become more apparent every day. Look for industry to turn away from oil in the next 10 years.

Of course all this could have been avoided if we had nuclear power, drilling in Alaska and the Florida coast. But we have political leadership that is useless.

[Rochesterian]

real information wrote:

<quoted text>
So what do my kids do twenty of thirty years from now when all the oil is gone?

I think the best way to look at things is to ask "What WON'T our kids be doing in the future."

Won'ts:

(1) gas guzzlers;
(2) McMansions
(3) urban sprawl;
(4) tax-cuts for the wealthy;
(5) building on or near sea-level;
(6) learning/teaching/testing A/B/C/D;
(7) allowing our judiciary to NOT undergo frequent neuro-psychological testing;
(8) allowing our borders to be breached;
(9) out-sourcing goods and services overseas;
(10) build a critical infrastructure based on an oil-dependent economy/life-style.

PEACE

[Quint]

Alcohol is supposed to go into the boat's captain, lads, not the boat itself.

[Rochesterian]

Quint wrote:

Alcohol is supposed to go into the boat's captain, lads, not the boat itself.

CHEERS CAPTAIN!!!!!

[BuckStripes]

real information wrote:

<quoted text>
So what do my kids do twenty of thirty years from now when all the oil is gone?

...What's your take on the highly-touted synthetic motor oil? And if that is a winner, what is the possibility of developing an equally capable synthetic fuel (vehicle gasoline, marine blend, aviation, and jet fuel)?

...What makes you think all the oil will be gone in 20 to 30 years? Agreed, there's all kinds of speculation about how finite the oil is, but numbers for the demise are all over the guessing map...

[BuckStripes]

...SPUD: The American military is being decimated by the downsizing of division strength into weaker (much smaller) brigades...Our real and potential enemies love it...
...It's what they aspire to do in war: Beat the large and unified division forces into disjointed ragged remnants. Of course they're thrilled to see US dismember the 1st Marine Division, the 82nd and 101st Airborne, and all the honored Army powerhouses...
...What our Armed Forces used to do for themselves and by themselves, from A to Z, has now been dismantled. That excellence has been replaced by profiteering (3rd-rate) private contractors...
...It's beyond disgraceful, and it bodes disaster for our troops and our country, up the road...

[Truth]

real information wrote:

<quoted text>
So what do my kids do twenty of thirty years from now when all the oil is gone?

There is plenty of oil, our politicians are just choosing not to get it.
http://video.google.com/videoplay...

[reason]

SPUD4402 wrote:

<quoted text> I'VE BEEN SAYING THE SAME SINCE I HEARD KP WAS GOING TO BE DONE BY CIVILIANS. KP IS A GOOD FORM OF TRAINING AND I'VE NEVER SEE A KITCHEN AS CLEAN AS THE ONES I HAD KP IN. MY OLD DIVISION THE 3OTH INF DIV,IKE CALLED IT HIS WORKHORSE DIV. ONE REGT HELD UP 2 GERMAN DIVISIONS DURING THE BULGE. IF I REMEMBER RIGHT,THE 30TH NEVER RETREATED IN IT'S HISTORY. I MARCHED IN ONE DIVISION PARADE AT FORT BRAGG IN 1965,IT'S BIGGER THAN LIFE,EVERYONE NEEDS TO BE IN ONE. 12-15,OOO TROOPS. I THINK EVERY ABLEBODIED MAN AND WOMAN NEEDS TO PULL AT LEAST A 6 YEAR TERM AS I DID AND YOU DID. MOST PEOPLE HAVE NO CLUE WHAT ITS LIKE TO BE A SOLDIER AND THEY NEED TO KNOW,SOLDIERS ARE NOT JUST NUMBERS ON A MORNING REPORT.

Marines are not soldiers ... they are Marines!

[real information]

BuckStripes wrote:

<quoted text>
...What's your take on the highly-touted synthetic motor oil? And if that is a winner, what is the possibility of developing an equally capable synthetic fuel (vehicle gasoline, marine blend, aviation, and jet fuel)?
...What makes you think all the oil will be gone in 20 to 30 years? Agreed, there's all kinds of speculation about how finite the oil is, but numbers for the demise are all over the guessing map...

Synthetic motor oil ... I do not have any experience with this product. I have not heard any first hand testimonials pro or con.
Oil supply ... several decades seems to be the best guess by many sources. Our best interest would be served by getting as much of it here (in the U.S.) as we can, and stretching it as long as we can. Really, depletion in my kid's lifetime or in my grandkid's lifetime is the same thing to me.
Corn is grown every year, hence the 'renewable' moniker. Yields have doubled since the 70s while efficiency of the ag production sector has increased dramatically. Other crops have been and will be utilized for oil(rapeseed (canola), sunflowers) and others for alcohol (ever heard of Jeruselem Artichokes?).
I am optomistic, but public opinion (from unsure consumers like FL residents this spring) is a high hurdle.

[Rochesterian]

real information wrote:

<quoted text>
Synthetic motor oil ... I do not have any experience with this product. I have not heard any first hand testimonials pro or con.
Oil supply ... several decades seems to be the best guess by many sources. Our best interest would be served by getting as much of it here (in the U.S.) as we can, and stretching it as long as we can. Really, depletion in my kid's lifetime or in my grandkid's lifetime is the same thing to me.
Corn is grown every year, hence the 'renewable' moniker. Yields have doubled since the 70s while efficiency of the ag production sector has increased dramatically. Other crops have been and will be utilized for oil(rapeseed (canola), sunflowers) and others for alcohol (ever heard of Jeruselem Artichokes?).
I am optomistic, but public opinion (from unsure consumers like FL residents this spring) is a high hurdle.

Why not a home steam-engine powered w/whatever burns-on-hand connected to a gen-set to run the electric car, whatever ...?

Am I off-base here?

[real information]

Rochesterian wrote:

<quoted text>
Why not a home steam-engine powered w/whatever burns-on-hand connected to a gen-set to run the electric car, whatever ...?
Am I off-base here?

Not at all. I like individual, home based ideas that eliminate tying into a centralized energy source. Home wind and solar energy and geothermal heating and cooling are good examples.

[BuckStripes]

reason wrote:

<quoted text>
Marines are not soldiers ... they are Marines!

...HaHaHa--You got a laff outta me. Very witty return of the original serve...:-)

[BuckStripes]

...Proposed Alternative Fuel Source:

...Dupont and Denmark's Genencor are gearing up to produce ethanol, which will be cheaper than the conventional product, and also it will not cut into food crops, therefore it will not hike food prices...
...The joint venture plans to develop cellulosic ethanol from corn stalks and leaves, from sugar cane stalks (bagasse), possibly from wheat straw, and from a variety of other (so-called) energy crops...
...This echoes what a couple of early posters suggested as alternative fuel sources...
...But apparently it won't happen tomorrow. The companies expect to invest $140-million in a US facility within the next 3 years--but not operating on a commercial scale until 2012...

...Dunno if something of this nature is already in the works here, but it sounds similar to the Brazilian process, which is fully operational...

[EnviroFreak]

Rochesterian wrote:

<quoted text>
Why not a home steam-engine powered w/whatever burns-on-hand connected to a gen-set to run the electric car, whatever ...?
Am I off-base here?

Yes, you are way off base. There is no way we need people burning whatever and polluting our precious atmosphere. What are you thinking?!
Have you ever thought about just walking or riding a bike?!

[real information]

BuckStripes wrote:

...Proposed Alternative Fuel Source:
...Dupont and Denmark's Genencor are gearing up to produce ethanol, which will be cheaper than the conventional product, and also it will not cut into food crops, therefore it will not hike food prices...
...The joint venture plans to develop cellulosic ethanol from corn stalks and leaves, from sugar cane stalks (bagasse), possibly from wheat straw, and from a variety of other (so-called) energy crops...
...This echoes what a couple of early posters suggested as alternative fuel sources...
...But apparently it won't happen tomorrow. The companies expect to invest $140-million in a US facility within the next 3 years--but not operating on a commercial scale until 2012...
...Dunno if something of this nature is already in the works here, but it sounds similar to the Brazilian process, which is fully operational...

I worry about the cellulosic slant. Transporting the raw input material will be difficult at best, and probably dangerous. It is not dense, and it does not flow. Any effort to modulize (bale) the loose material or transform it into a pellet form will cost at least as much as the material, and will really add no value. The only way I see straw, grass, stover, etc being efficiently converted to ethanol is if there is a small still every ten miles all across the country.
The Brazilian model relies on small machinery and much hand labor.
Have you evr heard of Jeruselem Artichokes? this was the original ethanol feedstock from the 70s which flopped due to a ponzi scheme within the startup company. It is a high starch edible tuber that is easy to grow.

[Carlos Vazquez]

"go green tree huggers" aren't for ethanol. We are generally for cleaner energy, which ethanol really isn't. Something we were for is using recycled cooking oil for bio-diesel, which takes used cooking oil, such as from fast food fryers, and cleans it up to use in diesel cars and trucks retrofitted to use it. Unfortunately, somewhere along the way big agribusiness mucked things all up and started turning our food into fuel. I don't know whatever happened to the biodiesel movement. Took bad it hasn't lifted off like ethanol has.

singlewheel wrote:

the go green tree huggers will have all of us spending our few dollars for higher fuel bills, repairs on all our equipment, and food. charlie is not helping the people of florida with this program.

[Rochesterian]

EnviroFreak wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes, you are way off base. There is no way we need people burning whatever and polluting our precious atmosphere. What are you thinking?!
Have you ever thought about just walking or riding a bike?!

Sorry.

I will define "whatever."

Dirty smoke is not a fuel option to run the steam-engine I'm looking into.

By "whatever" I mean something clean-burning, like alcohol or whatever rots and ferments from whatever I find laying around the Kentucky farm I plan on acquiring.

I want a small steam engine attached to a gen-set to supplement the solar and wind gen-sets I already have.