Who Is Allah?

There are 20 comments on the Aug 24, 2007, The Brussels Journal story titled Who Is Allah?. In it, The Brussels Journal reports that:

“Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? [...] What does God care what we call him?”

From the desk of Soeren Kern on Fri, 2007-08-24 11:56 Europeans love to mock the salience of religion in American society. via The Brussels Journal

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Brussels Journal.

Buford

Saint Albans, WV

#137955 Jun 23, 2012
MUQ wrote:
So far you have failed to establish that our prophet knowingly disobeyed God in any of his action, so he was sinless.
I made the point that it is an insult if not blasphemous to argue that Mohammad's highway robberies, murders, enslavements of women and children, rape enablings, and sexual predations were done by Allah's permission, but that is precisely what you have done by stating that because your so-called "prophet" was only following orders, he was therefore "sinless."

Mohammad had his critics murdered, but because your "Allah" supposedly ordered the assassinations, your "prophet" is "sinless," as are those Muslims TODAY who also murder Mohammad's critics!

See: Muhammad’s critics and their deaths, http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arland...

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#137956 Jun 23, 2012
Tia wrote:
Hilkiah the high priest made a huge discovery during renovation of the Temple c.622 BCE, "I found the Torah!", leading to reforms by King Josiah (2Kings 22)- shows that even the priests of the Temple didn't know of Torah before that
just before Babylonian exile, weeping Jeremiah said that the Torah with their kohen was not the Torah of YHWH, but a product of the lying pen of scribes (Jer 8:8, 18:18)
upon returning from exile, Ezra prayed, "Lord, people are without light, no man knows of Your Law'. Behold, I saw a cup full of something like fire. I drank it and wisdom filled my chest. Five scribes wrote down as I dictated to them. Then the Most High spoke to me,'Make public 24 books, but keep the other 70 books among the wise only'" (2Ezra 14)
one tradition has it that Ezra found the complete Torah floating miraculously on the fountain of Siloam
lost again after Ezra, "In ancient times when the Torah was forgotten from Israel, Ezra came up from Babylon and restored it. Then yet again it was forgotten and Hillel (the great doctor of the Law) came and restored it." (Sukkah 20a)
ROFLMAO sounds awfully haphazard & slip-shod to me!!! This convinces you that the deity depicted there was OMNIPOTENT???? LOL

Since: Mar 08

Location hidden

#137957 Jun 23, 2012
NotQuiter wrote:
<quoted text>
Taking one at a time, could I ask you why you mention this as a problem that he sent out a raven and a dove at various intervals? Of course, you say P and J, but what if it happened just as Moses wrote that it happened? why would this be something to mention as if it doesn't make sense that Noah sent out a raven and a dove?
LOL as long as you realize that the whole story behind Noah's "adventure" is a co-opted MYTH. The "flood" never happened, at least not world wide.
JOEL PASTAKIA

Mumbai, India

#137958 Jun 23, 2012
The Premium Chimp wrote:
<quoted text>

unemployment -> stupidity -> poverty -> delinquency
BUFORD = unemployment -> stupidity -> poverty -> delinquency.
JOEL PASTAKIA

Mumbai, India

#137959 Jun 23, 2012
The sin-agogues are overflowing with demon-worshippers who are busy worshipping their Demon G-D. LOL.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#137960 Jun 23, 2012
SeasideSoon wrote:
<quoted text> The God that the Hebrew scriptures portrays is a God of endless love, grace, and mercy, and yes, judgement for self-inflicted sinning, and forgiveness upon repentance.
Yes I think your god YHVH reached the peak of endless love, grace, mercy, and forgiveness when he told you to stone to death your disobedient sons, prostitutes, homosexuals, former Jews, but also when he said that if a person rapes a virgin then he has to pay an amount of money to her father and marry her. And how to not mention to keep the canaanite slaves always slave.

Since: May 12

Location hidden

#137961 Jun 23, 2012
Who the hell needs Satan with a god like YHVH?

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#137962 Jun 23, 2012
SeasideSoon wrote:
<quoted text>"To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. 22To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. 23I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it."
Exactly how far can one take this logic? Does one become a cannibal to cannibals in order to save souls, a murderer to murderers to save murderers, a child molester to child molesters to save child molesters, lawless to the lawless to save the lawless?
Did Jonah become a gentile to preach to Ninveh? Did Hosea become an idol-worshipper to preach to the Northern Israelites?
Did Moses pretend to be anything but what he was?
3 Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men that were upon the face of the earth.--
Paul should've studied Moses more closely.
(5-6) I am not the least inferior to those you call “super-apostles.” I am not a trained speaker, but I do have knowledge.
Each person is what he does, and ultimately responsible and accountable for his own actions first and foremost.
This is still happening today with the messianic christian movement. They pretend to be observant Jewish in order to win Jewish converts. Yet the movement has backfired - more gentiles convert to Judaism out of the messianics than Jews that convert to Christianity because of the messianics.
I know people that convert to Judaism because they feel it's the same almost as their own religion, even if it's Catholic (in fact, from my experience, it's mostly Catholics that would convert to Judaism, but that is only from what I've observed). The usual reason for conversion I've noticed is because they are marrying a Jewish man. I'm sure there are other reasons, but those are the reasons I've noticed. It is certainly possible that persons who join the messianic movement eventually convert to Judaism as well. As far as Jonah is concerned, the atmosphere of Jonah and his preaching ministry was different than Paul's efforts to speak to people. Ninevah accepted easily voices of other gods. However, people do judge by appearances. At the present time, I doubt that a person dressed very differently from standard American dress would win an election as president of the United States right now. By that I mean if a candidate got up in native American headdress and sandals and started campaigning to be president. I'm not saying whether it's fair or unfair. You were the one that told me not to bring up the "hatred card." But I notice that all you do is put down everything that Paul or certain individuals said, no matter how small. I don't want to take the time right now to bring out everything I can find in the Old Testament and turn it around because I love and respect what it says, just as Paul did. but I could do that, for a little exercise, and see how you respond.:-)**next post continued**

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#137963 Jun 23, 2012
SeasideSoon wrote:
<quoted text>"To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. 22To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. 23I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it."
Exactly how far can one take this logic? Does one become a cannibal to cannibals in order to save souls, a murderer to murderers to save murderers, a child molester to child molesters to save child molesters, lawless to the lawless to save the lawless?
Did Jonah become a gentile to preach to Ninveh? Did Hosea become an idol-worshipper to preach to the Northern Israelites?
Did Moses pretend to be anything but what he was?
3 Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men that were upon the face of the earth.--
Paul should've studied Moses more closely.
(5-6) I am not the least inferior to those you call “super-apostles.” I am not a trained speaker, but I do have knowledge.
Each person is what he does, and ultimately responsible and accountable for his own actions first and foremost.
This is still happening today with the messianic christian movement. They pretend to be observant Jewish in order to win Jewish converts. Yet the movement has backfired - more gentiles convert to Judaism out of the messianics than Jews that convert to Christianity because of the messianics.
(continued)
The problem is, if I brought up things that Moses, Joshua or even Hashem the Almighty said, and started pointing out things that can be construed by some as being not so nice, I can imagine that some would either deny it happened or say "who knows if those were really the writings, probably not," or they might defend the statements and say why their statements were perfectly good and appropriate. To say that makes Paul a liar because he said he became a Jew to the Jews (he knew Judaism really well...) and a Greek to the Greeks (he also understood Greek customs and beliefs) is not reasonable. I don't know about messianic Jews, they are an offshoot of Baptists, I believe, and as far as imitating Jews, well again, I don't think that's what Paul meant as far as becoming a Jew to a Jew and Greek to a Greek. Even diplomats have to be well versed as far as customs go in order to make a reasonable statement. Speaking of Jews for Jesus or messianic Jews, it reminds me of the different sects in Israel at the time of Paul. A Sadducee is not a Pharisee and so forth. Even though neither of those groups believed in Jesus as Messiah, a Sadducee could recognize a Pharisee, just as most of us can recognize what a person's beliefs are and we decide if we like those beliefs or respect them.

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#137964 Jun 23, 2012
Borg3of7 wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL as long as you realize that the whole story behind Noah's "adventure" is a co-opted MYTH. The "flood" never happened, at least not world wide.
That was not the point under discussion, and perhaps MUQ does not believe that a world-wide flood ever happened either, but the point under discussion that he brought up was about sending out a dove and a raven? I don't see the problem with that and am asking why it's a point of ridicule for MUQ. That point, not whether the flood occurred as written. I know that is not your question, and you have determined that the Flood never really happened as written. But since MUQ made the accusation, I'd like to know why he believes it's such a problem that Noah sent out a raven AND a dove.:-)
SeasideSoon

Fortson, GA

#137965 Jun 23, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
I do not PREFER to say that these books were not written by Moses, it is the books themselves that say that Moses did not write them.
Nowhere it is mentioned that Moses wrote these five books, not even an hint that Moses is the author.
And then Moses's own obituary is given in the book, dont you think this is strange for a writer to put it in a book he is writing?
And that too it is past tense.... all these are tell tale signs that Moses did not write these books.
This is from me as a laymen, those who are experts can give many more reasons.
So the "Blind Faith" that Moses wrote these books is from your side and not from my side.
Noah could have send one hundred birds, I do not question it, but they should have been presented in a logical way, if the book is recording the even in the chronological order.
But if the book is general guidance then chronology is not important (as is the case in Quran)..... but these books are supposed to be writing down human history in chronological manner, so these lapses are not acceptable.
I agree that accepting the authorship as dogma is not part of Islam, or Judaism. The content and lessons are what is important. This type of commitment to dogma creation is what caused over 40,000 sects of Christianity.

But what is your reasoning that the stories are not in chronological order. Sometimes, even today, an author can refer back to another related issue when a new topic is introduced. And it could be indicative of multiple authors.

I don't see this in the Noah narrative in the verses I posted. Noah sent out a raven first and it went to and fro. Then he sent out a dove (maybe the same one, maybe not) and it returned and kept sending it out until one day it returned with an olive branch.

As for the books written in the past tense, that is the usual form of a narrative, whether self-written by the participants or by someone else later. I don't see that as a problem either.

IMO, the most important to me, is that the writings have been pretty much intact in the original language for at least two thousand years. There are not hundreds or thousands of different versions.

"A popular position is that the Torah was canonized circa 400 BCE, the Prophets circa 200 BCE, and the Writings circa 100 CE,[5] perhaps at a hypothetical Council of Jamnia. This position, however, is increasingly criticised by modern scholars. Some scholars argue that the Jewish canon was fixed by the Hasmonean dynasty (140-37 BCE).[6] Today, there is no scholarly consensus as to when the Jewish canon was set."

Canonization refers to determining which books would be included in the TaNaKh, not to revision of them. So they haven't been revised in over 2000 years as I mentioned.
Buford

Saint Albans, WV

#137966 Jun 23, 2012
JOEL PASTAKIA wrote:
BUFORD = unemployment -> stupidity -> poverty -> delinquency.
QUEEN EUGENE = caste offedness -> prissiness sublime -> florid mysophobiacism -> death.

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#137967 Jun 23, 2012
SeasideSoon wrote:
<quoted text>"To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. 22To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. 23I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it."
Exactly how far can one take this logic? Does one become a cannibal to cannibals in order to save souls, a murderer to murderers to save murderers, a child molester to child molesters to save child molesters, lawless to the lawless to save the lawless?
Did Jonah become a gentile to preach to Ninveh? Did Hosea become an idol-worshipper to preach to the Northern Israelites?
Did Moses pretend to be anything but what he was?
3 Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men that were upon the face of the earth.--
Paul should've studied Moses more closely.
(5-6) I am not the least inferior to those you call “super-apostles.” I am not a trained speaker, but I do have knowledge.
Each person is what he does, and ultimately responsible and accountable for his own actions first and foremost.
This is still happening today with the messianic christian movement. They pretend to be observant Jewish in order to win Jewish converts. Yet the movement has backfired - more gentiles convert to Judaism out of the messianics than Jews that convert to Christianity because of the messianics.
Hello, SeasideSoon. I have a few questions for you right now regarding this post. Why do you think Jews do not follow the law of Moses right now? If the Law of Moses were reinstituted for Jews, would you follow it? And lastly, why does the current nation of Israel not follow the Law of Moses as prescribed? Thank you, and I hope you will attempt to answer those questions.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#137968 Jun 23, 2012
SeasideSoon wrote:
<quoted text>"To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; 21to those who are without law, as without law, though not being without the law of God but under the law of Christ, so that I might win those who are without law. 22To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak; I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some. 23I do all things for the sake of the gospel, so that I may become a fellow partaker of it."
Exactly how far can one take this logic? Does one become a cannibal to cannibals in order to save souls, a murderer to murderers to save murderers, a child molester to child molesters to save child molesters, lawless to the lawless to save the lawless?
Did Jonah become a gentile to preach to Ninveh? Did Hosea become an idol-worshipper to preach to the Northern Israelites?
Did Moses pretend to be anything but what he was?
3 Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men that were upon the face of the earth.--
Paul should've studied Moses more closely.
(5-6) I am not the least inferior to those you call “super-apostles.” I am not a trained speaker, but I do have knowledge.
Each person is what he does, and ultimately responsible and accountable for his own actions first and foremost.
This is still happening today with the messianic christian movement. They pretend to be observant Jewish in order to win Jewish converts. Yet the movement has backfired - more gentiles convert to Judaism out of the messianics than Jews that convert to Christianity because of the messianics.
NotQuiter--- He is not a self confessed liar. He was making a comparison showing that God always tells the truth.

@sea---"To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; ......

Exactly how far can one take this logic? Does one become a cannibal to cannibals in order to save souls, a murderer to murderers to save murderers,....

Did Moses PRETEND to be anything but what he was?

HughBe--- Truly you and your masters are at sea. YOU lack understanding and the ability to THINK.

Hint: How could Paul, the Pharisee, the Jew, PRETEND to be a JEW?Tell me Einstein?

Your hate of Christianity and TRUTH has only magnified your dull wit.
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#137969 Jun 23, 2012
later
SeasideSoon

Fortson, GA

#137970 Jun 23, 2012
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I think your god YHVH reached the peak of endless love, grace, mercy, and forgiveness when he told you to stone to death your disobedient sons, prostitutes, homosexuals, former Jews, but also when he said that if a person rapes a virgin then he has to pay an amount of money to her father and marry her. And how to not mention to keep the canaanite slaves always slave.
Yeah, for a much newer culture than Judaism, yours has had a lot to contribute to and teach the world. Slavery, dominion, idol(s) worship, coliseum games, acceptable victims for rape, and let's not forget the mafia.

Some examples:
When slaves were beaten, they were suspended with a weight tied to their feet, that they might not move them. Another punishment was to be branded in the forehead.

Methods of execution favored by the Romans:
Beheading (percussio securi)
Strangling in prison (strangulatio)
Throwing a criminal from that part of the prison called Robur (precipitatio de robore)
Throwing a criminal from the Tarpeian rock (dejectio e rupe Tarpeia)
Crucifixion (in crucem actio)
Burying a person alive
Throwing a criminal into the river (projectio in profluentem).
He was then sewed up in a sack, and thrown into the sea. Later in time, to add to the punishment for patricide, a serpent was put in the sack; and still later, an ape, a dog and a rooster.

Roman gods:
Jupiter the King of the Gods, Juno the Queen of the Gods, Neptune the God of the Sea, Pluto the God of Death, Apollo the God of the Sun, Diana the Goddess of the Moon, Mars the God of War, Venus the Goddess of Love, Cupid the God of Love, Mercury the Messenger of the Gods, Minerva the Goddess of Wisdom, Ceres the Earth Goddess, Proserpina the Goddess of the Underworld, Vulcan, Bacchus the God of Wine, Saturn the God of Time, Vesta the Goddess of the Home, Janus the God of Doors and Uranus the Father of Saturn.

Rape:Protections against rape applied only to freeborn children, not those born to slaves, sold into slavery, or taken captive in war. The social acceptance of pederasty among the Romans was focused on the exploitation of young male slaves or prostitutes by men of the upper classes.

Yup scholar, your culture has much to boast about.
SeasideSoon

Fortson, GA

#137971 Jun 23, 2012
HughBe wrote:
<quoted text>
NotQuiter--- He is not a self confessed liar. He was making a comparison showing that God always tells the truth.
@sea---"To the Jews I became as a Jew, so that I might win Jews; to those who are under the Law, as under the Law though not being myself under the Law, so that I might win those who are under the Law; ......
Exactly how far can one take this logic? Does one become a cannibal to cannibals in order to save souls, a murderer to murderers to save murderers,....
Did Moses PRETEND to be anything but what he was?
HughBe--- Truly you and your masters are at sea. YOU lack understanding and the ability to THINK.
Hint: How could Paul, the Pharisee, the Jew, PRETEND to be a JEW?Tell me Einstein?
Your hate of Christianity and TRUTH has only magnified your dull wit.
Take a hike.

Since: Feb 12

Location hidden

#137973 Jun 23, 2012
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
I do not PREFER to say that these books were not written by Moses, it is the books themselves that say that Moses did not write them.
Nowhere it is mentioned that Moses wrote these five books, not even an hint that Moses is the author.
And then Moses's own obituary is given in the book, dont you think this is strange for a writer to put it in a book he is writing?
And that too it is past tense.... all these are tell tale signs that Moses did not write these books.
This is from me as a laymen, those who are experts can give many more reasons.
So the "Blind Faith" that Moses wrote these books is from your side and not from my side.
Noah could have send one hundred birds, I do not question it, but they should have been presented in a logical way, if the book is recording the even in the chronological order.
But if the book is general guidance then chronology is not important (as is the case in Quran)..... but these books are supposed to be writing down human history in chronological manner, so these lapses are not acceptable.
MUQ, you made the comment (or at least copied it) about Noah, the dove and the raven. WHY is this illogical?(ps - are you saying that everything in the Koran is written "logically?" Not that I am comparing, but apples to apples, etc., and I don't believe the particular chapters (suras) in the Koran have been found in logical order as Mohammed had them written down, as I understand it, bits and pieces of writings were found in jars and so forth, and there is no definite treatment of the time each revelation was given or written down.) But let's go back to your imputing of something wrong in that scripture in Genesis regarding the raven and the dove. Certainly not that I can explain every question, etc., but I just wonder why you mentioned that one as if there's some problem there.
JOEL PASTAKIA

Mumbai, India

#137974 Jun 23, 2012
STEFANO COLONNA wrote:
Who the hell needs Satan with a god like YHVH?
Correct!

Those with a satanic nature will worship Satan.
JOEL PASTAKIA

Mumbai, India

#137975 Jun 23, 2012
YHVH = Satan.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Science Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News The President has failed us (Jun '12) 6 min WoodyTheWanker 324,283
News Evolution vs. Creation (Jul '11) 14 min Agents of Corruption 160,791
News Disease Spread Among Species Is Predictable 50 min WooF 3
News Texans hoping to turn U.S.-Cuba thaw into cold ... 1 hr Doc Proper 5
News US announces plans to reduce agricultural carbo... 1 hr Sterkfontein Swar... 11
News Michelle Grossman - About NBC 10 News Story - W... (Mar '08) 3 hr Holotta Wytrache 637
News What is a Psychological Doctor? 3 hr Jaimie 10
More from around the web