Quantum Galaxy: NGC 1277

Quantum Galaxy: NGC 1277

There are 2 comments on the www.science20.com story from Dec 2, 2012, titled Quantum Galaxy: NGC 1277. In it, www.science20.com reports that:

What makes the biggie in NGC 1277 remarkable isn't its sheer size (although it certainly is amongst the very largest black holes discovered so far), but rather the fact that it constitutes the majority of the bulge mass of the galaxy it resides in.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.science20.com.

“Geologist [I'm Climate Change]”

Since: Mar 07

formerly Nuneaton

#1 Dec 3, 2012
This one is a very impressive result.

The perseus galaxy cluster is rather large and quite rich,(lots of mass) but tended to feature lots of small lenticulat galaxies & very few giant ellipticals, and of course one cD right in the middle doing the "big ominous blob" act to a T.

The result for NGC 1277 indicates a new mechanism for galaxy evolution in rich galaxy clusters.

In this case it appears that the galaxies forming the cluster initially grew as giant ellipticals similar (& bigger) than M87 resulting in large blob shaped galaxies typical of big galaxy clusters.
What happens next in the crowded core is that the biggest drops into the middle (ngc 1275) where it boogies about under gravity of its neighbours, and the neighbours zip around in orbit. All very simple until the problem of orbital dynamics results in interpenetrating collisions.

The result of a collision is that the high inertia, high mass galactic cores continue in orbit out of the other side of the collision, slowing down in the process and dropping toward the cD in the core. The low inertia stellar component forms a tidal tial with the 2 galactic cores at either end with bulk velocity of the low inertia star component eventually becoming near zero.

In a situation of 2 isolated ellipticals, the bulk stars in the tidal tail will drag the cores back into the tidal tail through gravity resulting in a merger. The perseus cluster is NOT an isolated environment so the bulk of the stars in the outer parts of the giant E merger tidal tail will drop en masse toward the cD in the middle which will sweep them up. The isolated galaxy cores resulting from the interpenetrating collision will tend to also still gravitate toward the bulk mass so will both make a close pass of the cD. The 2 isolated galaxy cores however have so little remnant mass that they merely zip around or through the outer layers of the cD and continue in independent orbit.

The vast numbers of stars dropping onto the cD results in compaction of the stellar orbits in the cD and the central black hole gets the "munchies". The stellar density of the cD ends up so huge that it will capture the bulk of the stars dropping through it from the merger via pinball machine gravitational slingshot interactions via a couple of orbital passes of the bulk tidal tail.

The remnant galaxy core & its big black hole would initially have a spherical outer stellar component within the tidal stripping radius of the opposing galactic core. Well within this radius there will be a drag & spin disc of stars, gas & dust in the equatorial plane of the massive core black hole undisrupted by the tide. The drag & spin disc is caused by the response by the stars (ionised plasma) to the ferocious magnetic field of the black hole which had been accreting during growth and rotating @ or very near c with a very rapid accretion disc & jets around it.
The drag & spin of the black hole in the core will then affect the stellar orbits in the remnant blob circularising prograde orbits (equator fastest) and decaying retrograde orbits (equator fastest continuing to feed the black hole as retrograde decay orbit stars hit the black hole's tidal radius.

The result is the lenticular galaxy with core drag & spin disc & giant black hole in the core.

It appears that the Perseus cluster contains a lot of these small concentrated lenticular galaxies,(there should be an even number of them).

end of part 1.

“Geologist [I'm Climate Change]”

Since: Mar 07

formerly Nuneaton

#2 Dec 3, 2012
part 2.

Another mechanism to strip the core out of giant elliptical would be to have it drop right through the cD in the core and emerge from the other side with the bulk of the orbits of the stars in the system scattered or captured by pinball machine gravitational slingshot interactions with the stars of the cD.
This mechanism appears to be responsible for the virgo dwarf galaxy which is a black hole of a few million solar masses (similar to the core of M33) with only its drag & spin disc stars and scattered tight halo remaining.

Passage through NGC 1275 will produce the same result of a stripped galactic core but would imply that the cD galaxy & black hole has a mass about 1000 times that of the interloper. This is unlikely for the simple reason that all of the space in the Perseus cluster would be full to the brim with old stars which are not there in the photos, and the core galaxy would sprout einstein rings around the edges.

A further clue is the view via HST of the core of the cD NGC 1275. It features the classical bright blue star typical of an AGN, but is surrounded by several others in a tight cluster, which would not have been the case of a large E had passed right through & out the other side repeatedly. The other AGn would have been scattered into the outskirts by tidal interaction with a big black hole such as ngc 1277.

The best scenario therefore is that the Perseus cluster initially formed and became ram stripped by hot intracluster gas before ~8 billion years ago. The resulting cluster of giant ellipticals then orbited in a cluster with the low velocity largest being in the lowest velocity orbit close to the core centre of mass (as current in Virgo cluster). The outer group of giant ellipticals were then subject to interpenetrating high velocity collisions which stripped the core black holes and tidally bound retinue from the bulk elliptical surrounds. The bulk elliptical tidal tail then dumps onto the largest galaxy in the core adding to its mass forming a cD and concentrating the bulk stars and captured galactic nuclei into the cD core. The remnant stripped elliptical galaxy nuclei continue to orbit the cluster at lower velocity closer to the cD than they were previously.

This process continues until the cD is surrounded by a cluster of stripped galaxy cores of relatively low mass which evolve into lenticular galaxies via the drag & spin of the giant black hole in the core.

The result of the process is that the cD NGC 1275 now contains the bulk of the mass in the core of the perseus cluster and its relative velocity around the centre of mass is lose to zero. At that point the intracluster gas pool condenses onto the cD in a cooling flow further compacting the orbits of the stellar component of the cD as the starburst in the oustkirts of the cD floods the interior of the cD with more newly formed stars undergoing "pinball machine" slingshot interactions with the old stars already present.

The black hole(s) in NGC 1275 then get very well fed resulting in periodic quasar outbursts which balance the inflow of gas. resulting in periodicity of gas inflow.

This situation is unusual in galaxy clusters containing a cD because most cD systems have not become stationary in the cluster core and are still boogieing arond in response to the orbits of the other less massive ellipticals in the cluster core.

Have a nice day: Ag

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Science Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Defending the Faith: Intelligent design vs. 'Go... 1 hr Subduction Zone 1,922
News Republicans already giving Trump's budget a col... 4 hr CodeTalker 5
News Michelle Grossman - About NBC 10 News Story - W... (Mar '08) 4 hr MickMan 882
News ALDI grocery store to open in Fort Myers 6 hr ICE man 1
News My Word: Congress must counter Trumpa s damage ... 15 hr No doubt 1
News Vaccine zealot Paul Offit claims children can b... 23 hr friend 1
News New science proves YOGA really works for treati... 23 hr Humanspirit 1
More from around the web