1,200,000,000 gallons of pure free water
Posted in the San Diego Forum
#1 Oct 10, 2012
That's how much falls on San Diego County yearly on average.
US Geologic Survey files say 2/3 of this is easily 'catchable' because it runs off to small streams.
US Dept of Agriculture experts say their "Best Management Practices" will guide this underground for as little as $105 per million gallons and they will furnish that funding to landowners use use their planning.
US Environmental Protection Agency files tell us how to design "Low Impact Development" (LID) methods into all new tracts and businesses so that these store away more water than they use.
It's obvious that applying this simplest , cheapest stormwater management tech would progressively end flooding and provide more than enough pure, free water as development continued. But ask your favorite politician about this and he'll just mouth the standard negative cliches he's been fed by public officials who built their entrenched bureaucracies on MWD's Big Lie that we must dump our stormwater downstream and import a replacement for it.
It may be that this approach to managing rainwater is just plain too simple to work here like it has in Fresno for 55 years.
“Did you say something?”
Since: Jul 12
San Diego, CA.
#2 Oct 10, 2012
They don't want to lose all that tax revenue that they get from charging for water.
#3 Oct 10, 2012
it's contaminated and not safe for drinking.
#4 Oct 10, 2012
A kind friend pointed out that I left three zeroes out of a thread title
I took from letters we handed to politicians two decades ago.
(No, the politicians did not react. They were locked into the mythical
numbers their Chief Engineers provided.)
So I'll add the zeroes here: 1.200,000,000,000.
That's the average annual rainfall for San Diego County,
about 1.2 TRILLION gallons.
That useful person suggested I describe this amount as follows,
saying I'm remarkably well equipped to apply the KISS principle.
If we assume an average use of 100 gallons daily per person, an 3 person household would use:
110 thousand gallons of rainwater equals the needs of one household
110 million galloons would supply 1,000 households
110 billion gallons would be enough for a million households
1.2 trillion gallons would support 12 million households
He says this will be easier for a simple mind like mine to comprehend than the complex arguments his engineering profession invents to hide their deficiencies.
He asked why we meekly accept claims of politicians that we need to desalinate or import more water, since we have only about a million households. "If we only one gallon out of every eleven gallons of rainfall a year, where does the trillion gallons go?" he asked.
I offered to send him a rundown on our runoff, evaporation and transpiration losses but he says no, those are just proof that we hire incompetent or crooked Chief Engineers who defy California Water Code instructions.
#5 Oct 10, 2012
True indeed that rainwater is not 'pure', tiny motes of contamination form the nucleus for raindrops. Rain falling on the Lake Arrowhead area carries a heavy load of 'particulate matter' from LA's atmosphere, creating mountain springs with a significant percentage of contaminants.
But this contamination is too minor to worry about in most areas because soil is a perfect filter. Its bacteria and chemicals transform contaminants into plant nutrients, so the water percolating down to aquifers is pure.
Unfortunately a lot of the topsoil on San Diego's mesas was washed into
the ocean 150 years ago because miners needed wood for flumes-buildings- railroads and everyone had to be fed. Most trees were cut off while cattle and sheep severely overgrazed so that rainfall stripped away the topsoil and only brush could survive.
We could have corrected this beginning a half-century ago as advised by impartial federal experts by restoring grass to landscapes that had become chaparral. But Professional Engineers were trusted to do our planning and they focused upon perpetuating their jobs instead of designing the most cost-effective and publicly beneficial planning.
If we catch rainwater wherever it falls and guide it to surface or underground reservoirs then no flooding will occur and there will be no need for importing water. But that would dramatically reduce need for services of Professional Engineers and they are keenly aware of this. Like lawyers, they have a strong incentive to generate more work by misinforming us about planning options.
So each year our we spend hundreds of millions fighting wildfires, billions to make city landscapes dump rainwater to the ocean, and tens of billions importing water to replace what runs off.... Only In California!
So yes, rainwater is contaminated, but Ma Nature corrects this.
It is unfortunate she cannot persuade us to elect wise and honest politicians who will manage her gift of superabundant rainwater properly.
“Did you say something?”
Since: Jul 12
San Diego, CA.
#6 Oct 17, 2012
#7 Oct 19, 2012
A resigned sigh is not helpful.
Residents of other cities have been concerned enough about their
family's well-being to form groups that collected and evaluated
facts and figures so that they were able to point out mismanagement
and persuade voters to elect a higher quality of politician at each level.
When folks discover how their cost of living can be lowered while
raising its quality the greed that drives us all inclines them to
cease electing nitwits and crooks.
We could call an immediate halt to the multi-billion dollar planning
in progress if enough of us speak out.
#8 Oct 31, 2012
1 billion, 200 million gallons of pure free water fall on each 2,400 acres of San Diego County as a yearly average,
That's about the size of the Miramar Marine Corps base,
But 95% of its rainfall either evaporates or runs off to the ocean, wasted.
Department of Agriculture experts could corral this water with a series of the small impoundment dams they advocate - and pay for - within a year if we had a Mayor wise enough to request this service through our Resource Conservation District.
Thats enough 'free' water for 36,000 San Diegans.
Course the new Mayor would have to find a Public Works Manager smart and honest enough to cooperate in storing this water, as mandated by the California Water Code, then diverting the water into the public system.
That would be a pretty tough job in this City where public servants are focused on getting rid of rainfall with expensive storm drains so that they have permanent job security designing those systems, designing flood control features for the water they throw away, then operating the water importation systen that this deliberate waste makes necessary.
Candidate Filner has had the broad powers of a US Congressman for 20 years but made no move to use Federal experts and funds to save our rainwaeter.
So each 36,000 of us pay $6 million yearly for water pumped over the mountains from the slimy Colorado River.
A new crop of County Supervisors and City Council members could give a new Mayor the power to fast-track this simple rainwater storage project and duplicate it throughout the County. The billions we'd save each year would do a lot for our schools, roads, police, needy folks and government debt.
“Did you say something?”
Since: Jul 12
San Diego, CA.
#9 Nov 5, 2012
Maybe you'll find an honest person hiding under a rock somewhere.
#10 Nov 7, 2012
SB I post for those who might scan this forum, don't expect regular members to provide useful replies because most are obviously the type who will reject information that is contrary to the water management propaganda that has been pounded into Californians from kindergarten on.
The false premises and distorted data relating to water resources that teachers, public servants, politicians and news services have kept in front of the public for more than half a century keeps most folks from trusting what their common sense dictates. As a result very few are willing to post their opinions, ask questions or provide information even though they recognize a personal obligation to speak out for the welfare of their family, friends and community.
If you doubt that we've been fed false premises and distorted data kindly explain why we see no headline news about the waste of nine out of ten gallons of our rainfall.
"Everyone Knows We Have To Import Water", right?
Apparently very few realize this is a totally false premise.
We don't "have to" import water, that is done solely to keep 1,800-plus water agency execs and tens of thousands of engineers-lawyers-bankers-cont ractors-politicians-land developers well-fed.
“Did you say something?”
Since: Jul 12
San Diego, CA.
#11 Nov 9, 2012
First you need places to store all that water and land developers will not give up the areas needed to store that much water. Then you need a plan to collect all that water minus any pollution it picks up along the way.
Do you have a plan in mind?
#12 Nov 9, 2012
"First you need places to store all that water and land developers will not give up the areas needed to store that much water. Then you need a plan to collect all that water minus any pollution it picks up along the way."
Good points. SB:
The US Dept of Agriculture has been advocating storing rainwater underground for its entire 150-year life because this is the simplest, most cost-effectice and most broadly beneficial rainwater management mode.
By guiding most stormwater into aquifers, the immense natural reservoirs beneath our landscapes, this water is filtered and then protected from contamination and evaporation until we need it.
Storing just two gallons in ten would meet all our needs but by storing all stormwater in aquifers, as ordered by the 1945 Legislature, streams and therefore rivers would run full year-round with no flooding. This huge volume of pure water would leak out as springs and seeps to enhance wildlife habitat, pleasing 'naturalists' while keeping wells full so that rural folks and home builders would not be forced into accepting the enormous cost of extending water lines to their homesites.
"Honest" land developers readily adopt the commonsense onsite retention planning approach for their tracts and business sites. All in Phoenix have done this since '87 and a few in Riverside County achieved it despite strong opposition from its Chief Engineer.(revealed to be corrupted by "rapacious" land speculators posing as developers). This
Phoenix planning/design saves more rainwater than the new homes need, benefiting the entire community by adding to its wellwaters, instead of burdening existing homes with the cost of importing or desalinating more water.
Rainwater is collected and filtered by the USDA "Best Mnagement Practices" (BMPs) and USEPA "Low Impact Development" (LID) methods that guide all stormwater to storage to reduce the cost of new homes by 2-4 %. This has been shown to save more than $10,000 on average for new home buyers while cutting taxes for the entire population by reducing the grotesquely bloated public works departments that have gained self-perpetuating control of our public database relating to water resources.(Storm drains, flood control facilities and new water importation systems are no longer needed so staffs can be dramatically reduced.)
Conscientious land developers welcome this planning but Chief Engineers obstruct it to the max in defiance of the California Water Code that created their positions. Where job security is threatened personal and professional ethics are not a factor.
#13 Nov 25, 2012
----- POSEIDON'S CARLSBAD FANTASY
The next 100,000 homes built in San Diego County would store away more rainwater than they use if the commonsense technology offered by federal experts were put to use, as in Phoenix.
This would make the proposed desalination plant in Carlsbad unnecessary, preventing a loss of over two billion dollars by the economy of this region.
Have officials who will decide this matter been shown this truth?
If not, they will look mighty foolish when voters find out about it.
Silver Blade questioned this tech, saying "First you need places to store all that water and land developers will not give up the areas needed to store that much water. Then you need a plan to collect all that water minus any pollution it picks up along the way."
The US Geological Survey has revealed a 45-year supply of water under Southern California and the potential to guide 2/3 of its rainfall into that immense reservoir so that it would never run dry.
The missing link is politicians wise enough to appoint public works directors smart and honest enough to guide all stormwater into storage as instructed by the California Water Code.
Palm Desert is doing a credible job of this, mimicking the simple systems that allow Phoenix to save its rainfall, meeting the needs of new homes. But San Diego County's officials seem oblivious to this totally successful planning that progressively eliminates flooding, pollution and water importation as land is developed.
Engineers who say that land developers must "give up" land to achieve this planning are either incompetent of dishonest because US EPA and USDA experts have shown this is not necessary with the simple 'onsite retention' planning they recommend. And pollution is no problem because as rainwater percolates down soil bacteria converts pollutants to plant nutrients.
#14 Nov 29, 2012
This Carlsbad chicanery that the Poseidon group is pulling off is taking up too much of our time answering questions of outraged citizens.
A Professional Engineer called asking why we have not discussed what he called the most outstanding benefit of saving our rainwater, elimination of a need to spend four billion dollars on "pollution control" to suit the USEPA.
I questioned his estimate of the value of avoiding penalties for our huge volume of polluted runoff water and he said he'd work up an estimate for us. But he agreed that the savings from no longer importing water and not pushing through useless projects like the San Vicente dam raising could add up to more than the 4 billion that public works officials want us to pay now.
This civil engineer had some really unkind things to say about members of his profession who invent unneeded projects, misrepresent costs to suit their bosses, and hide practical planning options so that they will have plenty of work designing obsolete systems. It was downright discouraging to hear him say that senior managers of this county's public works departments work together to keep polticians fooled into approving useless pollution control devices instead of the simple plans that prevent runoff so that pollution does not happen.
#15 Dec 11, 2012
The Ppseidon scam would provide 16 billion gallons of pure water from the ocean yearly, enough for 100,000 homes for 2 billion dollars.(end price)
US Department of Agriculture figures show that this is less than the runoff from Mt Palomar that could be stored for about one tenth as much.
Are the Professional Engineers that advise our politicians smarter than the tens of thousands of techs who developed those USDA figures over the past century? Or are San Diego's entrenched managers and professionals keeping themselves working by inventing expensive projects instead of doing their jobs properly?
It takes no special skill to manage runoff from the mountains effectively, settlers were doing that 150 years ago with shovels. But if that water is guided into the soil instead of allowed to run off to rivers (as ordered by the CA Water Code) then the managers and engineers would not have perpetual jobs building flood control dams-channels and water importation canals-pipelines.
So a lot of leeches have lied to our politicians with a lot more skill than they've applied to managing our rainwater.
#16 Jan 2, 2013
A foot of rainwater. on average, falls on a half-million acres of San Diego County that slopes to the east from our mountains. That's 640,00 acre-feet, 213 billion gallons. Enough for double our population. Half this water could be easily saved by applying ordinary techniques used in Texas, Arizona and some parts of California
- Texas politicians instruct civil engineers to design simple stuff like underground dams that create a series of groundwater reservoirs in desert land streams to prevent evaporation of stormwaters.
- Arizona regulations require engineers to design new land developments so that each parcel has a low ridge around it so that stormwater can't run off, must soak into its aquifers to keep wells flowing year-round.
- Fresno planners divert all runoff into surface reservoirs until in can be piped to where it will soak into groundwater storage.
Apparently San Diego County politicians are unable to recognize the benefits of using simple, cheap planning and design like this,.even though it was commonly applied here 150 years ago - before civil engineers were put in charge of rainwater management.
#18 Jan 7, 2013
Misuse of my name by the above poster indicates more than mere disagreement with my text, this person is downright malicious!
The silly syntax and poor grammar suggests it is not from an upper-level water district or public works employee, more likely a Professonal Engineer WUI.("Writing Under the Influence"). Useful criticism attempting to refute my facts and figures, is apparently beyond the capacity of this member.
Here's a few simpler figures for that sorry soul to ponder. Critique welcome.
~8 trillion gallons of rain fall on the 7 South Coast counties yearly.
~800 billion gallons is imported yearly by MWD.
~500 billion gallons would meet the needs of all "typcal" housholds.
The models of Fresno and Phoenix prove beyond question that storing most rainfall is not only practicable but comes with major spin-off benefits, and at much less cost than present disposal-based management of rainwater.
#19 Feb 24, 2013
I've been corrected. A public works employee says about 1,350,000,000,000 gallons of rain falls on the 2,896,640 acres of San Diego county as a yearly average. Just under half a million gallons per acre. That agrees with the State's estimate of 18.4 inches of rainwater yearly here.
With a typical household using 60,000 gallons yearly, how many homes would be supplied by that trillion-plus gallons of rain"
The USGS says only about 2/3 of that rain could be put to use but that would still be enough to supply more than twice as many households as their are in the whole South Coast, all seven counties.
A person could almost suspect that we've elected politicians who are not wise enough to appoint competent Chief Engineers and Water district Directors.
#20 Mar 16, 2013
A state water division worker answering my questions about the amount of rainwater dumped from reservoirs to the ocean mentioned that total water use in California fell from 21.2 trillion gallons in 1990 to 20.6 trillion in 2010.(I received no figures for water lost this year or last.)
600 million gallons will supply only 30,000 people so that's no big drop in usage. Yet during those 20 years tens of billions of dollars were taken from us through local and state government for water system expansions that will "ensure the reliability of water supplies".
Seems pretty certain that someone is fooling most of the people most of the time through our news media and teachers, but who would do this, and why?
Now we see neighbors in Arizona being pushed into approving the same kind of water districting that gave a single agency, MWD, the power to extort billions from us yearly. Looks like the land/water/energy profiteers there aim to copy the huge success of California's criminals who corrupt our database so that they can extort our wealth without fear of punishment because we are fooled into electing a majority on nitwits and crooks.
Since: Mar 12
#21 Mar 16, 2013
Don't you clowns know james is baiting you with his idiot spam lol
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