james marple

San Diego, CA

#1 Oct 11, 2012
A retired civil engineer who doen't have to worry about his pension being cut off or property foreclosed on by BofA sent the following data:

The Lake Henshaw watershed covers 206 square miles, or 131,840 acres.
These receive an average of 2.2 feet of rainfall yearly, 286,000 acre-feet or 95 billion gallons.

About 1/3 of this is not 'catchable' according to the USGS
so only about 65 billion gallons could be saved for public use.
That's enough for 65,000 homes

Poseidon would supply 16,000 homes.

The Henshaw watershed runoff could be stored in downstream aquifers for about
$10 yearly per home and extracted by water districts for about $125 per home.

The Poseidon water would cost at least $1,000 per home.

Is it possible our politicians have been 'persuaded' it makes sense to throw away four times
as much water as the Poseidon project would provide so that we will be forced to buy its water?

Perhaps a SDWCA or Poseidon expert will offer words to discredit this data,
I know they are monitoring all public comment related to their scheme.
james marple

San Diego, CA

#2 Oct 19, 2012
Another $2 billion down the tube

For an absolutely unnecessary seawater distillation plant.

NEWS ITEM: Sept 10 Union Tribune reporter Mike Lee informed us;
"About three ago, water authority general manager Maureen Stapleton told the U-T San Diego editorial board that she hoped the draft contract would be made public within days. She also said the agency needs to get the details right.“You are talking about just under a billion dollars that will be invested between the two entities,” Stapleton said. "

The cost will of course be more than double that when all details come out,

Draining away rainwater costs a lot more than storing it, as our Legislature pointed out 75 years ago when it recognized the economic illness caused by water importation schemes. Yet GM Stapleton is focused upon buying water instead of using our plentiful rainfall.(Enough to supply all homes in Southern California.)

Why don't we save enough of this abundance to supply all our needs?

Maureen knows why, as does every competent civil engineer.
But job security is more important than their ethical obligation to tell us.
james marple

San Diego, CA

#3 Oct 24, 2012
The Yuma Desalination Plant can purify 32 billion gallons of salty water yearly, twice as much as the billion-dollar Carlsbad plant that County officials have decided to pay for with our dollars.

The Colorado River water MWD delivers to us is overloaded with salt, sewage effluent and complex chemical compounds of major toxicity.

Yet that plant sits idle, never used although it is 'tested' periodically to give engineering firms more millions of our dollars.

After the Murrieta Water District Manager and I visited this facility twenty years ago I pointed out its potential to San Diego County officials, assuming that competent public servants would inform their constituents so that concerned citizens could aid their efforts to have it put to use cleaning the filthy Colorado River water they were drinking. That was wishful thinking.

This plant was completed the year Bob Filner first went to Washington as a Congressman where he worked hard to weaken the Clean Water Act so that San Diego would not have to adopt sensible rainwater planning and design. We've paid tens of billions for that error and are now told that many more billions will be demanded.

If Congressman Filner really can do anything he wants because he is a Congressman, as he claims, we would all benefit hugely from him using his magical powers to bring us pure water without paying for another desalination plant.
james marple

San Diego, CA

#4 Oct 31, 2012
The "Desalination no panacea for Calif. water woes" thread seems to have vanished without a trace. Anyone know where it can be found?
My group has excellent ancient professionals but no good Networkers.

The statements ;from it below deserve thoughtful consideration by San Diego officials who propose to bury us under another billion dollars of debt for a desalination plant that cannot be justified except as a conduit for our dollars to the civil engineering firms, contractors and bankers pushing it.

From the Oklahoma City "Panacea...." article:
"There are currently 17 desalination proposals in [California], concentrated along the Pacific where people are plentiful and fresh water is not.
But many projects have been stymied by skyrocketing construction costs, huge energy requirements for running plants, regulatory delays and legal challenges over environmental impacts on marine life. Only one small plant along Monterey Bay is pumping out any drinking water."

We have to wonder 'what's in it' for San Diego County Water District officials.
- Are they too poorly educated/informed to see through this scam?
- Were their egoes tenderly stroked by professional wordsmiths?
- Have some been offered "tangible incentives" to approve the purchase of water for more than ten times as much as it would cost to supply the same amount from our own rainfall?

A line in the quote above expresses the hidden lie that has fooled Californians into allowing themselves to be victimized by clever thieves posing as civil engineers: That false premise:
"... concentrated along the Pacific where people are plentiful and fresh water is not."

Fact is, the communities that are being coerced into accepting enormous debt for desal plants are letting more than enough rainwater to meet all their needs run off to the ocean or evaporate. And that includes San Diego.
james marple

San Diego, CA

#5 Nov 7, 2012
With another billion-dollar scheme, the Carlsbad desalination plant of the Poseidon water supply profiteers, being pushed upon us I find it discouraging that no one seems to mind having another thousand dollars of debt placed upon their home plus the annual $500-$1,000 it will cost for enough of its water to supply a home for a year.

The professional liars in our agencies and news services who inform us about water resource management have done their job well, keeping the total cost of our totally inappropriate planning totally obscure so that we just pay our total utility costs and grumble about the total annual increase in this extortion.

A new broom could sweep clean, correcting the massive barrage of false and misleading information we get from our water districts and city officials. But it looks like most of us don't want a clean sweep to happen, we just elected a professional politician as Mayor.
james marple

San Diego, CA

#6 Nov 17, 2012
NEWS ITEM 09/28/2012
--- SDCWA proposes buying desalinated water
Source: AWWA News
"The San Diego County Water Authority seeks public review on a proposed agreement to buy at least 48,000 acre-ft of desalinated sea water annually for 30 years starting as early as 2016."

QUESTION: Have you submitted your opinion about this proposal to add another billion dollars to our debt?

We are already losing 20% of the current $1.4 billion budget to bankers.
How much more should we pay them so that our public servants and politicians can get cheap loans and favorable news reporting?

My opinion was not printable.
james marple

San Diego, CA

#7 Nov 20, 2012
San Diego County receives 18.5 inches of rainfall overall as a yearly average and most of this falls on its highlands according to state and federal officials. Guiding this precious resource storage is not rocket science, a high school science class could do a fine job, providing an excellent conceptual plan that would be 180 degrees different from the one that local officials are following.

If you multiply this 500,000 gallons of rainwater per acre by the County's 2,688,000 acres you'll find that San Diego County receives more than nine times as much rainwater as its households use.(The 1,344,000,000,000 gallons that fall equate to the usage of 32 million residents, ten times our population.)

This statement is derived from multiplying its 2,688,888 acres by its 18.5-inch rainfall to get 1.35 trillion gallons yearly, enough to provide 100 gallons daily for each of 32 million residents, ten times the present population.

It is therefore silly that we should be importing water, and downright stupid that we should be forced to pay extortion for desalinated water.

I look forward to attempts to correct my facts or math.
james marple

Kingman, AZ

#8 Nov 24, 2012
The 48 thousand acre-feet of water that Carlsbad’s Poseidon scheme would provide translates to 16 billion gallons.

So why do our public servant consistently describe water volume in acre-feet, cubic feet, or HCF instead of simply ‘gallons’?.

The Professional Engineers in my group say that senior engineers deliberately use unfamiliar terms instead of ‘gallons’ to confuse and distract us so that we don’t do the simple calculations that would reveal the massive scam in progress.

A high school student could multiply our 18.5-inch annual rainfall by our 2.4 million acres and discover that our rainfall is nine times our use. A little more digging into facts and figures would show that less than 10% of that huge surplus is stored away.

Common sense, then, tells us the people we elected have appointed nitwits or crooks to manage our rainwater and deliver as much as we need from it.

Should we have to pay $1,000 per home for desalinated water while they throw away 55 tines as much pure, free rainwater?
No sensible, honest politician or public servant would allow this, so the ones we have do not fit that description.
james marple

San Diego, CA

#9 Nov 28, 2012
page 1

TO:Scott Lewis.Voice of San Diego
Scott
  Your water news is of limited usefulness to concerned citizens due to 
its lack of information about alternative planning options that would 
achieve the purpose of the Carlsbad desalination plant.
  My comments below in [[double brackets]] inserted into one of your articles (in ""double quotes"")will illuminate certain aspects of the desalination scheme.
Our comments on the San Diego TOPIX forum provide detail.

~~~~~ A Looming Sea Change for San Diego Tap Water ~~~~~

""People need water to live. We drink it, we clean with it, and it carries away our dead goldfish. A complex network of pumps, canals, and pipelines hundreds of miles long keep our little civilization by the sea alive.""
 [[Your premise that a complex system is necessary is invalid because our rainfall would support up to ten times our present population and storing is is essentially a simple, inexpensive matter. 
The system we have was pushed upon a determinedly mindless public by a criminal element of our business sector over the past century. Their objective was generating infrastructure at public expense to suit land speculation schemes perpetrated through deceived-coerced-bribed politicians, agency chiefs and news services.]]
 
  ""Very few people understand that water system. Those who do live with a managed anxiety. They know that, should it fall apart, our entire economy will go down with it.""
 [[This statement is correct in that the few individuals who, as a group of brilliant robber barons of  the very late 1800's, took control of California's primary information sources and used this to construct a land-water-energy monopoly that put them among the richest and most powerful of America's criminal elite.  The present version of these robber barons has slipped from view, hiding themselves within boardrooms of the five major banks where they direct the activities of almost every large corporation. If the water system "falls apart" wise citizens will simply go back to the much more appropriate mode of storing enough stormwater to meet all needs, as explicitly directed by the 1945 Legislature.]]

  ""For decades, that fear has provoked San Diegans to look longingly at the sea. We’ve got a lot of ocean — could we drink it? "" 
 [[California's news services have consistently failed to do the homework that would show them this is a groundless fear. With 1.35 trillion gallons of rainwater falling on San Diego County yearly there is no need to even consider desalinating water.  Fact is, raising the present 5% rainfall usage to about 20% would provide much more than enough water for all human needs in addition to eliminating floods, ending pollution of creeks-rivers-beaches and reinvigorating wildlife habitat on a huge scale.  Civil engineers who say this cannot be done cost-effectively are either woefully ignorant or wholly deficient in personal/professional ethics.]]
  
  ""We’re about to find out.  San Diego will likely soon agree to buy water from a private company. That company, Poseidon Resources, is going to build a desalination plant at Carlsbad’s Encina Power Station. It has all the permits. It just needs the money.""
 [[The bandit army of today's robber barons has no compunctions whatsoever about testifying falsely to politicians, public servants and the news media. Their quality of life depends upon how well they fool us to suit their bosses at the peak of a pyramid of professional liars.]]

""Should we give it to them? Is it a good deal?""
 [[This scam has already been a good deal for those who  profited from creating the illusion and pushing it upon us. It will of course be a fine deal for those who orchestrated the campaign and their civil engineer-lawyer-contractor agents. It will bring no significant collective benefit, only massive debt for a facility made obsolete by the escalating cost of energy.)]] 

continue pages 2-3
james marple

San Diego, CA

#10 Nov 28, 2012
page 1

TO: Scott Lewis Voice of San Diego
Scott
  Your water news is of limited usefulness to concerned citizens due to 
its lack of information about alternative planning options that would 
achieve the purpose of the Carlsbad desalination plant.
  My comments below in [[double brackets]] inserted into one of your articles (in ""double quotes"")will illuminate certain aspects of the desalination scheme.
Our comments on the San Diego TOPIX forum provide detail.

~~~~~ A Looming Sea Change for San Diego Tap Water ~~~~~

""People need water to live. We drink it, we clean with it, and it carries away our dead goldfish. A complex network of pumps, canals, and pipelines hundreds of miles long keep our little civilization by the sea alive.""
 [[Your premise that a complex system is necessary is invalid because our rainfall would support up to ten times our present population and storing is is essentially a simple, inexpensive matter. 
The system we have was pushed upon a determinedly mindless public by a criminal element of our business sector over the past century. Their objective was generating infrastructure at public expense to suit land speculation schemes perpetrated through deceived-coerced-bribed politicians, agency chiefs and news services.]]
 
  ""Very few people understand that water system. Those who do live with a managed anxiety. They know that, should it fall apart, our entire economy will go down with it.""
 [[This statement is correct in that the few individuals who, as a group of brilliant robber barons of  the very late 1800's, took control of California's primary information sources and used this to construct a land-water-energy monopoly that put them among the richest and most powerful of America's criminal elite.  The present version of these robber barons has slipped from view, hiding themselves within boardrooms of the five major banks where they direct the activities of almost every large corporation. If the water system "falls apart" wise citizens will simply go back to the much more appropriate mode of storing enough stormwater to meet all needs, as explicitly directed by the 1945 Legislature.]]

  ""For decades, that fear has provoked San Diegans to look longingly at the sea. We’ve got a lot of ocean — could we drink it? "" 
 [[California's news services have consistently failed to do the homework that would show them this is a groundless fear. With 1.35 trillion gallons of rainwater falling on San Diego County yearly there is no need to even consider desalinating water.  Fact is, raising the present 5% rainfall usage to about 20% would provide much more than enough water for all human needs in addition to eliminating floods, ending pollution of creeks-rivers-beaches and reinvigorating wildlife habitat on a huge scale.  Civil engineers who say this cannot be done cost-effectively are either woefully ignorant or wholly deficient in personal/professional ethics.]]
  
  ""We’re about to find out.  San Diego will likely soon agree to buy water from a private company. That company, Poseidon Resources, is going to build a desalination plant at Carlsbad’s Encina Power Station. It has all the permits. It just needs the money.""
 [[The bandit army of today's robber barons has no compunctions whatsoever about testifying falsely to politicians, public servants and the news media. Their quality of life depends upon how well they fool us to suit their bosses at the peak of a pyramid of professional liars.]]

""Should we give it to them? Is it a good deal?""
 [[This scam has already been a good deal for those who  profited from creating the illusion and pushing it upon us. It will of course be a fine deal for those who orchestrated the campaign and their civil engineer-lawyer-contractor agents. It will bring no significant collective benefit, only massive debt for a facility made obsolete by the escalating cost of energy.)]] 

continue pages 2-3
james marple

San Diego, CA

#11 Nov 28, 2012
page 2

 "" The San Diego County Water Authority estimates the deal will cost average San Diegans an extra $5 to $7 a month."" 
 [[We need no special knowledge to realize that this estimate is worth about as much as two dead flies. Every major project in this county has been sold to politicians and voters at a price far lower than the reality.]]

""Poseidon is building the facility itself and will have to deliver the water. If all goes well, it will start pumping water — up to our standards — and we’ll start buying it at a set price. Unfortunately, getting the salt out of salt water is expensive. It takes massive amounts of energy. It’s actually the most expensive source of water on the table.""
 [[We may be certain that small print will allow investors in this project to bail out with major profit while its debts are assigned to the general public. 
Note that the Yuma desalter, completed 20 years ago with double the capacity of the proposed Carlsbad plant, sits unused due to the high cost of electricity despite expensive upgrades.]] 

 "" Its saving grace, however, may be the future. You see, importing our water is risky too. Global climate change and thirsty Arizonans are among the threats to our supply.""
 [[Importing water to a region that throws away many times as much as it uses is of course foolish, but it has made a lot of influential people very wealthy so we may be certain they will continue to buy politicians, agency chiefs and editors to keep the public in trhe dark about water supply planning options. Factoring in climate change that is too gradual to be of serious concern - and may go either way - is a cheap trick to fool concerned citizens.]]

  ""Lynn Reaser and San Diego’s Equinox Center project the cost of importing water over the next 20 years will rise 6.7 percent per year. That’s about a 50 percent faster rise than the cost of desalination.  So, taking the salt out of seawater may be an investment that pays off over time.  But what do we get out of that investment now? 
  The water authority says we get security. If we want a more reliable water future, we have to pay for it. This new source of water would make up about 7 percent of San Diego’s water portfolio. That’s hardly transformative,but it is a lot of water — enough for about 143,000 homes a year.""
 [[Would it be smart to spend 2 billion dollars to make sure no lawns 'brown out' if officials decide to allocate an equal amount of water to all homes, effectively doubling the water supply because most homes use less than half of the average? The Carlsbad desalination project would force all customers to pay for backup water for the few who use several times as much water as their neighbors, a wholly inequitable plan.
The Lake Henshaw watershed could supply four times as much pure water as the Carlsbad plan if managed as advocated by federal experts.]] 

page 2
james marple

San Diego, CA

#12 Nov 28, 2012
page 3 of 3

  ""But how does it compare to other options?
  One of those options, for example, is part of a potential solution to an old problem. The city of San Diego does not currently treat its sewage up to standards. The federal government is likely going to require the city to address this, which could prompt a deal that includes recycling this wastewater into potable drinking water.""
  Recycling water is called indirect potable reuse, or IPR. And the city is slowly inching toward approving it. Proponents of this effort, however, are worried that if this desalination deal eats up too much of people’s water bills, residents won’t support the extra cost IPR might add. And if they don’t support IPR, then what will the city do about all the sewage it’s dumping in the ocean without being properly treated?
  [[The recycling of all wastewater to agriculture, industry, and irrigation of hillsides to re-establish vigorous grass growth as a cure for wildfires is long overdue. This single action would dramatically improve the supply picture by replacing the use of potable water and recharging groundwater supplies with up to half as much water as the region uses. 
  USBR Chief Manuel Lujan and US Rep Packard pushed this planning in the early '90s but local officials resisted it in every way, obstructing and delaying while misinforming politicians about its practicality and cost.]] 

  ""Then there’s conservation. The Equinox Center found that 55 percent of San Diego’s water use goes to landscape watering. Yep, our lawns.“Aggressive conservation plus IPR equals a lot of problems solved,” says Marco Gonzalez, an environmental attorney. ""
 [[ Public investment in desalination so that landscapes can be maintained with water costing $4.50 per HCF, double the present cost, would be simply stupid.]]
 
  ""The water authority believes both water recycling and desalination are crucial.“We feel very strongly that both are necessary and have a place,” says deputy general manager Sandy Kerl.  They may both have a place in our hearts and minds, but the question is whether we have space on our water bills.""
 [[This manager's opinion is inarguably biased by concern for 
perpetuating and expanding the bloated bureaucracy of SDCWA so that personal income rises and job security is protected.  A competent, impartial expert would know perfectly well that this agency could assure itself of a permanent ample supply of pure, cheap water by enabling the County RCD to formulate comprehensive watershed management plans for each river and subarea in cooperation with all federal and state agencies through the county NRCS office that was established to achieve this end.]]

~~~~~~~~~~

  I've listed most flaws in the Poseidon mythology and SDCWA policies in the San Diego and Mira Mesa TOPIX forums so that my group's members will be able to say "We Told Uou So" if the project goes through. Its absurdity will become obvious soon after its proponents take their money and run.

DATABIT: Three acre-feet of rainfall, one million gallons, will serve 9 homes. One trillion gallons will serve 9 million homes. San Diego County receives 1.2 trillion gallons yearly.

James Marple
interpreting for CRWM, 
Citizens for Responsible Watershed Management
james marple

San Diego, CA

#13 Nov 28, 2012
The Poseidon scam is moving ahead smoothly, claiming its first victim with Carlsbad Council members unanimously agreeing to buy 83 billion gallons (2,500 A') annually for "about" 5 million dollars.

We have to wonder how unanimous they will be in rejecting efforts of federal and state officials to provide all the water this city needs at no cost by managing its rainwater intelligently so that flooding, water pollution and
water shortage are no longer problems?

Was the Council informed by its preferred experts that the planning recommended by USEPA and USDA experts would provide ample pure water, enough for all needs permanently, for about one-tenth this cost?
Were these eager officials shown how this planning option would also meet federal guidelines for stormwater quality that are predicted to cost over $100 million because previous Councils have refused to adopt these methods?

Ot did residents elect individuals unable or unwilling to do their homework of calling impartial experts to get a clear view of all rainwater management planning options so that they could make wise decisions for a change?

The San Diego County Water Authority Manager has made it perfectly clear that she has no intent to work with the County RCD to implement those methods so that her agency would have a plentiful supply of pure free water.
That would be a disaster for this agency, removing justification for its constant escalation of rates, forcing it to trim down its huge load of deadwood professionals, ending its expansions of powers and influence.
james marple

San Diego, CA

#14 Dec 6, 2012
The San Diego County Water Authority's approval of the Carlsbad desalination scheme even though another plant sits idle on the Colorado River (where its water supply comes from) appears nonsensical to we who pay its bills. But not to the managers whose jobs depend on constant expansion of SDCWA facilities.

If the fully operational but idle Yuma plant is put to work again it can desalinate twice as much daily as the proposed Carlsbad plant so there would be no excuse to take another 2 billion dollars from our pockets and hand it to the private sector.(With some slipping through fingers to cooperative politicians, as usual.)

But our politicians, public servants and news services have not mentioned this alternative, focusing instead upon creating a firestorm of debate about the Carlsbad plant's problems to distract us. We have been fooled into not looking closely at why people we trust to keep us informed have grossly exaggerated the amount of water we need and ignored sensible planning options.

Citizens who can use the Internet effectively could soon discover the reason for our water shortages and the simple steps that would end them while charging us equitably for water.
james marple

San Diego, CA

#15 Dec 11, 2012
Does San Diego County need a $2 billion desalination plant?
An exercise in visualization can provide new perspective on this.

Picture a cube of water as tall as mile-high Mt Palomar, sitting across a 2-mile-long runway of the Miramar Air Base. That mile-square block would contain the equivalent of San Diego County's annual rainfall, enough to supply nine times its population.

This much falls on our 2.7 million acres yearly, an average 18.5 inches overall, in amounts varying from 200,000 gallons per acre at Mission Bay to 320,000 gallons at Miramar to 400,000 gallons at El Cajon and 1.3 million gallons per acre on Mt Palomar.

Now if your imagination can drain 500 feet of that 5,180 foot square block off to storage in the many canyons and huge aquifers throughout the County you'd have enough to supply all homes in the County for a year - and you'd still have a block of water 4,500 feet deep.

Food for thought by residents hungry for lower taxes and utility bills.
james marple

San Diego, CA

#16 Dec 27, 2012
Enough water has run off our landscapes this year to supply all our needs for the next ten years. Meanwhile, the Diego County Supervisors pushed their latest water supply scam, the Carlsbad desalination plant, through to bury us under yet another billion dollars of debt.

What would we get back if they had invested those billion dollars modifying highland areas of our county with the simple, cheap, virtually invisible "Best Management Practices" recommended strongly by federal experts and every conscientious civil engineers?

USDA techs have proven, by applying these BMPs to tens of millions of acres, that we'd get plentiful pure water permanently at a cost of $15 to $45 dollars per year per household.(Compare this to the $1,000 new debt per home that we will have to pay off.) This commonsense planning would mean no more importation of salty Colorado River water or grossly contaminated water from the Sacramento River. And no more bloated public works and water district agencies to support with increased taxes.

We could pay for our schools as we go instead of borrowing millions and paying back billions!
james marple

San Diego, CA

#17 Jan 29, 2013
10 News has discovered that the $2 billion we County residents will pay for the Carlsbad desalination scam will generate 2,500 temporary jobs!.

We can be thankful and proud that we were able to create this work and its windfall profits for clever con artists at a cost of only $4,000-plus in additional bond debt for each household to pay off. The 20% of our water bills that now goes for debt service will rise with this new project, of course, but gradually so that we will just grumble, not demand better management.

No matter that this project is absurd, straining salt from seawater while six times as much pure rainwater is dumped off our landscapes into that sea. And no matter that this plant's output could be matched by water diverted from any one of our rivers to offstream reservoirs after winter storm evenys for a tiny fraction of its cost.

It's sad that we are not collectively smart enough to elect politicians able and willing to see through these scams.
james marple

San Diego, CA

#18 Feb 26, 2013
The LA Times says the Poseidon scam will cost us $3-4 billion when all costs besides the $2,042 to $2,290 per acre-foot are figured in. We were told it would be $984 million. Either their reportets are confused or we've been badly deceived by the County Water District management so that our politicians would not object to helping pay the huge cost.

Raising our rates to pay $1,000+ yearly for that half of an acre-foot the
District says our homes use would be an enormous swindle. But maybe that estimate was also false, to fool us into thinking we must have more water.

If County approval of the Desalinator is not rescinded then City officials would be negligent if they don't reroute our storm drains to reservoirs in our hundreds of canyons so that we no longer have to buy that outrageously overppriced water. The couple billion we save would be more than enough to make our city self-sufficient in supply by storing most of our rainfall.

Of course, the homeowners who use 55% of our water to keep their estates green should pay the full cost of that desalinated water, since it would not be needed if they'd stop taking more than 10 times their fair share. But that'll never happen because they control our politics.

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