Collective bargaining for state worke...

Collective bargaining for state workers in jeopardy

There are 289 comments on the Daily Democrat story from Feb 23, 2011, titled Collective bargaining for state workers in jeopardy. In it, Daily Democrat reports that:

Following the lead of Wisconsin's governor, a Republican state assemblyman announced legislation Tuesday intended to eliminate collective bargaining for pension benefits by California's public employees.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Daily Democrat.

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Dave

Mather, CA

#1 Feb 23, 2011
Lets not forget to include elected officials in the pension reform.
How legal is it for these people to address pensions of public working men and women and not address their own huge pensions they accrue with time in office?
No sense what so ever. They say they speak for all concerned citizens in the state. Will here's one speaking for all about your pensions. Work on that first, to show how upstanding you are then.
Huh

Clearlake, CA

#2 Feb 23, 2011
"The bill by Assemblyman Allan Mansoor of Costa Mesa attempts to address the soaring costs of retired public employees, but has little chance in a Legislature controlled by Democrats."

Too bad that nobody heard Mansoor introduce his bill. The giant sucking sound of dollars going out the door of the assembly to public employee pension/healthcare liabilities overwhelmed the sound of his voice.
Middle of the road

Rancho Cordova, CA

#3 Mar 4, 2011
Huh wrote:
"The bill by Assemblyman Allan Mansoor of Costa Mesa attempts to address the soaring costs of retired public employees, but has little chance in a Legislature controlled by Democrats."
Too bad that nobody heard Mansoor introduce his bill. The giant sucking sound of dollars going out the door of the assembly to public employee pension/healthcare liabilities overwhelmed the sound of his voice.
It has nothing to do with budget problems and everything to do screwing working people.

“Facts”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#4 Mar 4, 2011
Middle of the road wrote:
<quoted text>
It has nothing to do with budget problems and everything to do screwing working people.
So you are saying that saving hundreds of millions of dollars per year will not help the budget???

Do you even realize that a flagger working for Cal Trans makes a 100k per year with bennies??

When I did emergency storm repair for Cal Trans ten years ago I had to pay my equipment operators union scale
Double of their normal pay…….
More than 100 dollars per hour….
Middle of the road

Rancho Cordova, CA

#5 Mar 4, 2011
Here Is One wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are saying that saving hundreds of millions of dollars per year will not help the budget???
Do you even realize that a flagger working for Cal Trans makes a 100k per year with bennies??
When I did emergency storm repair for Cal Trans ten years ago I had to pay my equipment operators union scale
Double of their normal pay…….
More than 100 dollars per hour….
Please provide any proof that claims that a CALTRANS employee doing traffic control work has a base wage in excess of $100,000.00 a year.

“Facts”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#6 Mar 4, 2011
Middle of the road wrote:
<quoted text>
Please provide any proof that claims that a CALTRANS employee doing traffic control work has a base wage in excess of $100,000.00 a year.
Did I say base pay??
I said earning…..

An equipment operator makes a starting wage of just under 35 dollars per hour..STARTING……
A flagger makes 23 dollars per hour starting
Now add overtime at double time
Holidays at double time unless you are on overtime and then it is triple time
Sick time
Vacation time
Raises every 6 months
Medical care for the whole family..
And then retirement

I had to pay my equipment operators more than 100 dollars per hour on Cal Trans job sites.
That is what the union scale is because I did not offer paid vacations, paid sick leave, health insurance or retirement…..
On a union scale job I had to pay flaggers 60 dollars per hour………This is what I PAID THEM…….
60 dollars per hour x 40 hour week = 2400 per week with no overtime…..Way more than a 100k per year because there will be all of the overtime you like.

I have a friend that retired from Cal Trans Ukiah yard years ago and worked as an operator for me part time he ran my Cat 330 as he did for Cal Trans.
His first day on the job I almost fired him.
I had a guy running a old case 580k and was moving more dirt than he was…
After a long talk and about a week to get in the same gear as everyone else he did a great job.
He could not believe that I wanted him to move 8 times the dirt in a shift as Cal Trans wanted him to.

His retirement paid him almost 9k per month plus medical coverage…..
Ronald

Long Beach, CA

#7 Mar 4, 2011
Collective bargaining theory presumes strong bargainers sitting on both sides of the table. This is the whole basis of American
Labor-Management legislation.

Since the revolution, the overburdened taxpayer who has been called upon to pay the costs of public employee bargaining agreements have had no bargaining representative sitting on their side of the table.

Taking that fact into consideration, can current public employee bargaining agreements be considered legitimate by any stretch of the imagination? The only possible exception might be taxpayer supported Government labor and civil judges, Government judges who they themselves are beneficiary to taxpayer funds for their own pay and benefits packages.

Ronald
Ronald

Long Beach, CA

#8 Mar 4, 2011
Middle of the road wrote:
<quoted text>
It has nothing to do with budget problems and everything to do screwing working people.
Middle of the road.

I agree. Big Public Employee Union Bosses - holding the leashes of ravenous packs of organized Big Teacher Government agents invariably advocate imposing even more punitive property, tobacco, and other burdensome taxes on overtaxed and underrepresented ordinary worker ("middle") class Californians.

Ronald
Middle of the road

Rancho Cordova, CA

#9 Mar 6, 2011
Here Is One wrote:
<quoted text>
A flagger makes 23 dollars per hour starting
Caltrans Highway Maintenance Worker starting wages:$16.32 an hour or $34,476 a year BEFORE taxes and employee contributions to healthcare and retirement.

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/jobs/salaries.htm

If you were on a Caltrans job YOU didn’t pay your employees anything, the taxpayers paid them! And furthermore, every penny those “employees earned was hopefully spent as they wanted and not as you wanted.

I have no qualms about paying a worker honest wages for a days work whereas I don't think anyone is worth millions a year.

You hired an ex Caltrans employee and almost fired him the first day.

Since ronnie ray -gun started the process of dismantling civil service when he was governor, every repubican governor since him has used a political litmus test as the prime hiring criteria so that today I’d say in excess of 80% of everyone hired since 1983 is a repubican. When I retired, basically everyone hired hasn’t had to know anything so depending on when and who hired your friend there’s a real possibility he didn’t know squat.
Huh

Clearlake, CA

#10 Mar 6, 2011
Middle of the road wrote:
<quoted text>
Caltrans Highway Maintenance Worker starting wages:$16.32 an hour or $34,476 a year BEFORE taxes and employee contributions to healthcare and retirement.
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/jobs/salaries.htm
If you were on a Caltrans job YOU didn’t pay your employees anything, the taxpayers paid them! And furthermore, every penny those “employees earned was hopefully spent as they wanted and not as you wanted.
I have no qualms about paying a worker honest wages for a days work whereas I don't think anyone is worth millions a year.
You hired an ex Caltrans employee and almost fired him the first day.
Since ronnie ray -gun started the process of dismantling civil service when he was governor, every repubican governor since him has used a political litmus test as the prime hiring criteria so that today I’d say in excess of 80% of everyone hired since 1983 is a repubican. When I retired, basically everyone hired hasn’t had to know anything so depending on when and who hired your friend there’s a real possibility he didn’t know squat.
Hey Roadkill
HIO is right on the mark. There is a large disparity between salaries of different job descriptions(complain to your union rep. lmao), but here are the numbers for 2008.
Wednesday, May 27, 2009
California State Worker Salaries
Now that the perpetual California budget crisis is reaching crescendo, the salaries of state government workers are the outrage du jour. Aside from the inexplicable outliers (yes, there is a non-PERS state employee that made over $500,000 last year!), precious little data informs the debate. Well, I'm fresh from having analyzed a state payroll database, and here's a little data for the debate fire:
Total Number of State Workers: 264,933
Total Cumulative Salary For 2008:$17,538,131,186
Average Salary:$66,198
Median Salary:$62,296
This number doesn't include benefits.
Huh

Clearlake, CA

#11 Mar 6, 2011
more info:
Caltrans Electrician II
Recruitment #094499-00106924-9tr06m

Department(s): Department of Transportation

Opening Date: 11/5/2009 11:30:00 AM
Closing Date: Continuous
Cut-off Date: 12/31/2010
Type of Recruitment: Departmental Open
Salary: MONTHLY-RANGED-SALARY -$4,012.00 to $4,613.00

This is entry level without benefits/overtime included.

Ya, will easily go over $100k per year.

“Facts”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#12 Mar 6, 2011
Middle of the road wrote:
<quoted text>
Caltrans Highway Maintenance Worker starting wages:$16.32 an hour or $34,476 a year BEFORE taxes and employee contributions to healthcare and retirement.
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/jobs/salaries.htm
If you were on a Caltrans job YOU didn’t pay your employees anything, the taxpayers paid them! And furthermore, every penny those “employees earned was hopefully spent as they wanted and not as you wanted.
I have no qualms about paying a worker honest wages for a days work whereas I don't think anyone is worth millions a year.
You hired an ex Caltrans employee and almost fired him the first day.
Since ronnie ray -gun started the process of dismantling civil service when he was governor, every repubican governor since him has used a political litmus test as the prime hiring criteria so that today I’d say in excess of 80% of everyone hired since 1983 is a repubican. When I retired, basically everyone hired hasn’t had to know anything so depending on when and who hired your friend there’s a real possibility he didn’t know squat.
I have no idea where you got that figure…..
But go look at Cal trans web site are you are way off……..
The link you provided did not agree with your figure

I told you what I paid my people and I am still waiting for a payment from the state from two years ago…..
Seems a couple of people worked more than 8 hours per day even when the engineer Steve told them to sit and not move………..
Some equipment operators got off of their equipment and picked up a shovel..
One of my flaggers was dragging plastic sheets over to a culvert to stop erosion.
We have an arbitration appointment in May of 2013……..
To see if I can get paid…..So the tax payers have not paid me…………….YET……..

The rates I told you are what the state told me I had to pay people to work on the union job…….

Did you figure in their retirement??........NO
Or the sick time they get paid for even if they are not sick?
Or vacation time?
Or the many other benefits including healthcare?

Everybody works for wages before taxes……………..LOL

One job installing a culvert on HWY 128 in the middle of a storm my guys were told to SLOW down as they were making the Cal Trans guys look bad…….
Also an equipment operator is not allowed to get off of the equipment and pick up a shovel when needed……..

Yes I did the guy was used to Cal Trans work and was so slow I was going to fire him and run the excavator myself…….
He learned quickly and became a good employee.
Middle of the road

Rancho Cordova, CA

#13 Mar 6, 2011
Here Is One wrote:
<quoted text>
I have no idea where you got that figure…..


Right there for everyone to see. Ninth down from the top. Caltrans Highway Maintenance Worker 2873 to 3120 a month. Thee are 176 hours in a month so divide that into 2873 and wow,$16.34 an hour and after several years they could top out at wow,$17.72.

Now if you're claiming that they put Transportation Engineers at $4279 -$7617 out flagging I guess it would be more per hour butt I've never heard of such a thing and neither have you. LMFAO

SALARIES Below are the minimum/maximum salaries for jobs which Caltrans administers exams that are open to the public:

SALARIES

Class Title
(Click on linked text for Classification Specification) Min
Max
Accountant I (Specialist) 2870 3488
Accountant Trainee 3240 3751
Assistant Caltrans Administrator (using the SSA list) 2817 4446
Associate Information Systems Analyst 4619 6192
Associate Programmer Analyst 4619 6192
Caltrans Electrician I 3828 4201
Caltrans Equipment Operator 3201 3929
Caltrans Heavy Equipment Mechanic 3740 4507
Caltrans Highway Maintenance Worker 2873 3120
Caltrans Landscape Maintenance Worker 2873 3120
Cook Specialist I 2378 2891
Deckhand-Ferryboat 2687 2929
Deputy Attorney, CT 4674 7828
Dispatcher-clerk, CT 2771 3368
Drawbridge Operator 3051 3338
Engineering Geologist 4279 7649
Ferryboat Mate 3186 3497
Foundation Driller 3338 3660
Heavy Equipment Mechanic Apprentice, CT 2687 3660
Landscape Technician 3262 4544
Mechanic's Helper, CT 2805 3051
Mechanical Engineer 4279 7617
Planners (Transportation and Environmental) 3106 4670
Programmer I 3262 4087
Right of Way Agent 3106 4670
Structural Steel Painter 4201 4613
Toll Collector 2705 3285
Transportation Engineer (Civil) 4279 7617
Transportation Engineer,(Electrical) 4279 7617
Transportation Engineering Technician 2746 4766
Transportation Surveyor (CT) 4175 7617
Tree Maintenance Worker, CT 3120 3580

Here’s the link again:

http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/jobs/salaries.htm

“Facts”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#14 Mar 7, 2011
Middle of the road wrote:
<quoted text>
Right there for everyone to see. Ninth down from the top. Caltrans Highway Maintenance Worker 2873 to 3120 a month. Thee are 176 hours in a month so divide that into 2873 and wow,$16.34 an hour and after several years they could top out at wow,$17.72.
Now if you're claiming that they put Transportation Engineers at $4279 -$7617 out flagging I guess it would be more per hour butt I've never heard of such a thing and neither have you. LMFAO
SALARIES Below are the minimum/maximum salaries for jobs which Caltrans administers exams that are open to the public:
SALARIES
Class Title
(Click on linked text for Classification Specification) Min
Max
Accountant I (Specialist) 2870 3488
Accountant Trainee 3240 3751
Assistant Caltrans Administrator (using the SSA list) 2817 4446
Associate Information Systems Analyst 4619 6192
Associate Programmer Analyst 4619 6192
Caltrans Electrician I 3828 4201
Caltrans Equipment Operator 3201 3929
Caltrans Heavy Equipment Mechanic 3740 4507
Caltrans Highway Maintenance Worker 2873 3120
Caltrans Landscape Maintenance Worker 2873 3120
Cook Specialist I 2378 2891
Deckhand-Ferryboat 2687 2929
Deputy Attorney, CT 4674 7828
Dispatcher-clerk, CT 2771 3368
Drawbridge Operator 3051 3338
Engineering Geologist 4279 7649
Ferryboat Mate 3186 3497
Foundation Driller 3338 3660
Heavy Equipment Mechanic Apprentice, CT 2687 3660
Landscape Technician 3262 4544
Mechanic's Helper, CT 2805 3051
Mechanical Engineer 4279 7617
Planners (Transportation and Environmental) 3106 4670
Programmer I 3262 4087
Right of Way Agent 3106 4670
Structural Steel Painter 4201 4613
Toll Collector 2705 3285
Transportation Engineer (Civil) 4279 7617
Transportation Engineer,(Electrical) 4279 7617
Transportation Engineering Technician 2746 4766
Transportation Surveyor (CT) 4175 7617
Tree Maintenance Worker, CT 3120 3580
Here’s the link again:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/jobs/salaries.htm
Oh so you want to take the lowest starting wage that anyone makes at Cal trans their first month on the job and say that is the max that anyone will ever make………….LOL

But we will use your figure as they will be making close to 100k as the lowest man on the pole.

2873 per month with no over time and working no holidays (it never snows on a holiday) as a base pay times 12 =$34476.00
Now add the more than 200 hours of sick time and vacation pay per year they get that puts them close to 40k
Now add the health, dental benefits that would cost a family according to oslama close to 20k per year so that puts us right at 60k per year.
Now in 20 years this person will retire and receive more than 50% of their salary for the rest of their life.
Starting at Cal trans at age 20 and retiring at age 40 will leave them 40 years of retirement coming to them so they are earning more than double the 60k and that makes the earning 120k per year……..
We did not figure in any overtime or working any holidays…..Straight pay for the lowest paid Cal trans worker is over 100k per year just as my previous post said.
Now add the yearly raises and bonuses it won’t be long until they are earning closer to 200k per year…….

And that is exactly how the unions figure it out when they tell me I have to pay union scale.
You take the wages, vacation and sick time add in the health insurance then factor the retirement in…….
That is what the union says they make…….NOT ME………………..

Even skipping the retirement no moron fresh out of high school needs to suck up 60k per year worth of tax payers money doing a job that is easier than working at McDonalds…………….
Huh

Clearlake, CA

#15 Mar 7, 2011
Middle of the road wrote:
<quoted text>
Right there for everyone to see. Ninth down from the top. Caltrans Highway Maintenance Worker 2873 to 3120 a month. Thee are 176 hours in a month so divide that into 2873 and wow,$16.34 an hour and after several years they could top out at wow,$17.72.
Now if you're claiming that they put Transportation Engineers at $4279 -$7617 out flagging I guess it would be more per hour butt I've never heard of such a thing and neither have you. LMFAO
SALARIES Below are the minimum/maximum salaries for jobs which Caltrans administers exams that are open to the public:
SALARIES
Class Title
(Click on linked text for Classification Specification) Min
Max
Accountant I (Specialist) 2870 3488
Accountant Trainee 3240 3751
Assistant Caltrans Administrator (using the SSA list) 2817 4446
Associate Information Systems Analyst 4619 6192
Associate Programmer Analyst 4619 6192
Caltrans Electrician I 3828 4201
Caltrans Equipment Operator 3201 3929
Caltrans Heavy Equipment Mechanic 3740 4507
Caltrans Highway Maintenance Worker 2873 3120
Caltrans Landscape Maintenance Worker 2873 3120
Cook Specialist I 2378 2891
Deckhand-Ferryboat 2687 2929
Deputy Attorney, CT 4674 7828
Dispatcher-clerk, CT 2771 3368
Drawbridge Operator 3051 3338
Engineering Geologist 4279 7649
Ferryboat Mate 3186 3497
Foundation Driller 3338 3660
Heavy Equipment Mechanic Apprentice, CT 2687 3660
Landscape Technician 3262 4544
Mechanic's Helper, CT 2805 3051
Mechanical Engineer 4279 7617
Planners (Transportation and Environmental) 3106 4670
Programmer I 3262 4087
Right of Way Agent 3106 4670
Structural Steel Painter 4201 4613
Toll Collector 2705 3285
Transportation Engineer (Civil) 4279 7617
Transportation Engineer,(Electrical) 4279 7617
Transportation Engineering Technician 2746 4766
Transportation Surveyor (CT) 4175 7617
Tree Maintenance Worker, CT 3120 3580
Here’s the link again:
http://www.dot.ca.gov/hq/jobs/salaries.htm
What part of these numbers do you not understand? Using the lowest payed worker on the payroll means nothing.

If all state workers were compensated at that level, we would not have a problem.
It is the total cost of the state government workers that matters. That cost averages $100k per year or more per state worker.
You are definitely NOT a businessman.

Total Number of California State Workers: 264,933
Total Cumulative Salary For 2008:$17,538,131,186
Average Salary:$66,198
Median Salary:$62,296
This number doesn't include benefits.
Huh

Clearlake, CA

#17 Mar 7, 2011
Wisconsin Senate Democratic leader asks Gov. Scott Walker to meet
MADISON — The leader of the 14 Wisconsin Senate Democrats who fled to Illinois 18 days ago to delay passage of a bill taking away collective bargaining rights from public employees is asking Gov. Scott Walker for a meeting.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/2...

The end game is near.
Middle of the road

Rancho Cordova, CA

#18 Mar 7, 2011
Huh wrote:
<quoted text>
What part of these numbers do you not understand? Using the lowest payed worker on the payroll means nothing.
Typical repubican. Please show me a link that shows Caltrans uses anything other than low paid, low skilled workers as flag persons.

I worked for the state and never saw anyone other than low paid, low skilled workers as flag persons on jobs that involved CValtrans and the agency I worked for.

Show us the link to back up your claims!

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#19 Mar 8, 2011
What part of California is out of money are you people not understanding?

“Facts”

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#20 Mar 8, 2011
lil stinker wrote:
What part of California is out of money are you people not understanding?
To a liberal as long as you or I have one penny in our pocket California is not broke……………LOL
Ummm

Sacramento, CA

#21 Mar 8, 2011
Hey, "here is one", you're making a lot of statements to make your case but what are they based in? First off, you don't get sick time on top of your base wage, it's part of it. Second, health costs are not 100% paid by the employer nor are retirement costs. Retiring at 40? Really? Who does that unless they're disabled? And, any hourly employee who works overtime gets paid more, that's not exclusive to State workers. You're also forgetting to deduct furloughs that have become the norm. And raises & bonuses? Really? You're stretching.

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