What does a 'secure' border look like?

Feb 23, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Ruidoso News

In this May 18, 2006 file photo, a man rests his hands on a fence looking out to the United States from a Mexican customs station after being detained by U.S. Border Patrol in Arizona and returned to Mexico in Nogales, Mexico.

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Badtothebone

Shirley, NY

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#1
Feb 23, 2013
 

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A secure border looks like a bunch of dead Mexicans laying on their side of the border.
Sirius

Querétaro, Mexico

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#2
Feb 23, 2013
 
Badtothebone wrote:
A secure border looks like a bunch of dead Mexicans laying on their side of the border.
Why on our side?

I mean, if you begin to kill Mexicans for sports from that side of the border, I don't doubt that most of those acultured Mexicans that live in the border, actually felt blessed with your attention... "businessmen" of the border, accustomed of living of prostitution, traffic, etcetera, actually will feel good to see a new business oportunity of recovering plumb bullets and new thriving business of "sepelios".

Why your Ideal view of a Mexican border as not materialized, then?

Not all Mexicans are equal.

Some others, living more south, may even like me, take that as very "offensive".

;-).
Snake Eyes

Anaheim, CA

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#3
Feb 23, 2013
 
A secure border is miles of chicken wire fence connected to a multi-billion dollar wall built by Mexicans.
Sirius

Querétaro, Mexico

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#5
Feb 23, 2013
 
@Badtothebone, your comment was designed to be extremely provoquing... not only you talk about dead Mexicans, but also on our side.

That that you describe, it is called "war".

There are other Americans in this forum much more intelligent, than do not come to this forum to pick fights the way you do. I think that there is a US public opinion divided between those Americans that sympathise with us, those that are indifferent to us, and those that, like you, abhorr us and hate us.

I am not the kind of Mexican that when enconter a comment like you did, remind you that "we are all sons of Jesus", and things like that.

I believe that "we" (the USA and Mexico) live in peace, because there is a calculus of cost-benefit of our relationship. Mexicans and Americans calculate that continously. And sometimes, I guess, they make mistakes.

The most submissive Administrations of our history with the USA, have just passed and the result is and exponential increase in the anti-Mexican feelings in the USA. I think that that could be considered as an example of "mistake" and "unexpected consequences".

I am one of those Mexicans that believe that the USA is an important relation of Mexico which has to be carefully managed by our politicians, as source of great benefits and/or potential problems.

We Mexicans have just kicked out those politicians, maybe not due to great analysis and conclusions, but I guess that we feel confident that we Mexicans could evolve and react to our environment, economical, social, diplomatica... you name it.

We also judge how our relationships with other nations of the World (wide World) go. We do appropiate adjustments.

For one side, I found some reasurance that the US Media do not treat Mexico with special consideration. We are not Qatar, Saudi Arabia or Israel. Nor we are Iran or Russia.

If you feel bad because of illegal immigation from Mexico, the article states preciselly that it has diminished dramatically. I think that at least that should be a reason not to be so bitter... isn't it?

Mexicans like me, and we are many, don't care much about what happens with US migratory policies.
Concderned

Mexico, Mexico

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#6
Feb 23, 2013
 

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Sirius wrote:
@Badtothebone, your comment was designed to be extremely provoquing... not only you talk about dead Mexicans, but also on our side.
That that you describe, it is called "war".
There are other Americans in this forum much more intelligent, than do not come to this forum to pick fights the way you do. I think that there is a US public opinion divided between those Americans that sympathise with us, those that are indifferent to us, and those that, like you, abhorr us and hate us.
I am not the kind of Mexican that when enconter a comment like you did, remind you that "we are all sons of Jesus", and things like that.
I believe that "we" (the USA and Mexico) live in peace, because there is a calculus of cost-benefit of our relationship. Mexicans and Americans calculate that continously. And sometimes, I guess, they make mistakes.
The most submissive Administrations of our history with the USA, have just passed and the result is and exponential increase in the anti-Mexican feelings in the USA. I think that that could be considered as an example of "mistake" and "unexpected consequences".
I am one of those Mexicans that believe that the USA is an important relation of Mexico which has to be carefully managed by our politicians, as source of great benefits and/or potential problems.
We Mexicans have just kicked out those politicians, maybe not due to great analysis and conclusions, but I guess that we feel confident that we Mexicans could evolve and react to our environment, economical, social, diplomatica... you name it.
We also judge how our relationships with other nations of the World (wide World) go. We do appropiate adjustments.
For one side, I found some reasurance that the US Media do not treat Mexico with special consideration. We are not Qatar, Saudi Arabia or Israel. Nor we are Iran or Russia.
If you feel bad because of illegal immigation from Mexico, the article states preciselly that it has diminished dramatically. I think that at least that should be a reason not to be so bitter... isn't it?
Mexicans like me, and we are many, don't care much about what happens with US migratory policies.
I am not for illegal immigration to Mexico or the USA or any country for that matter. Obviously most of the people are not doing it. But I agree with you Sirius. So everyone should not be thrown in with criminal trespassers in any country. Mexico does have a lot of good people. Every culture is different. So you can not expect the good people from anywhere to be the same, because in no country is everyone bad.

What a boring world this would be if everyone dressed and acted the same in each country.
Concerned

Mexico, Mexico

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#7
Feb 23, 2013
 
Can not even spell my handle right, lol.
sickofit

Owatonna, MN

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#8
Feb 23, 2013
 

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Phalanx guns every 200 yards set to kill....dont know what that is ....look it up...oh and check out a video of it in action....OH YEA NO MORE ILLEGALS..
sickofit

Owatonna, MN

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#9
Feb 23, 2013
 
Oh and in the Navy we called it R2-D2 with a hard.....well sure u figure it out
Sirius

Querétaro, Mexico

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#10
Feb 23, 2013
 
I am not for illegal immigration to Mexico or the USA or any country for that matter. Obviously most of the people are not doing it. But I agree with you Sirius. So everyone should not be thrown in with criminal trespassers in any country.
What is a tragedy is that many of these people went there with the Fox administration that said to them that they, somehow, would be received with open arms.

Many years a go, in many internet forums I said to a lot of people "Don't you see that according to the last polls 73% of Americans do not want more illegal migrants... this has to reflect one day even in harsh legislation, or some other consequences".

Well, we already have this backlash, with the legislation in Arizona, Alabama, Georgia, etcetera.

But now, there is this talking about a bi-partisan immigration reform that (supposedly) would regularize the illegals. Surely this will stir up more conflict with conservatives in the USA, and Mexico will continue to be, unnecessarily, inside a heated political debate in the USA.

And I say "unnecessarily", because just adding few points to the GDP of Mexico, by having patriotic and visionary economic policies - just like those Mexico had from 1957 to 1970 - there would not be this flow of people, 95% of them totally unqualified, that goes illegaly to the USA.

But what could you expect from and idiot like Vicente Fox? The story that he has "a personal friendship with Bush", and continous announcements that, any moment, there would be an immigration reform in the USA to regularize the illegals ("so go now, don't miss the opportunity!!).

What could you expect from a complexed drunkard dwarf, whose legitimacy in the polls was doubted? Let's invent a "War against drugs", that distracts everybody of a lamentable administration that didn't created net jobs for six years.

I do not mention here the responsibility of US goverment and policies... because I think that the responsibility of what has happened in this twelve years is mostly of us Mexicans.

Let's be fair. We have to respect ourselves to be respected by others.

Mexico has really a lot of intelligent and valuable people, that never get the chance to implement their ideas on goverment.

On the bright side: Macroeconomics in Mexico look good curently, in a world that is crumbling in many places due to finantial and debt crises. We have currently an opportunity. Let's not miss the bus this time.
Mexico does have a lot of good people. Every culture is different. So you can not expect the good people from anywhere to be the same, because in no country is everyone bad.

What a boring world this would be if everyone dressed and acted the same in each country.
Thanks,@Concerned.
pinchejuan

Georgetown, TX

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#11
Feb 24, 2013
 
The reality is that no country has ever acheived sealed borders. Even the vile Nazis and Soviets, with their willingness to take things to the inhumanly insane lengths suggested by Bad and Sick have still had porous borders - just a lot more dead innocents. When you consider the thousands of years of free migration accross what are now "our" borders, the need for a real migrant worker program becomes ever more evident.
As for the criminally insane like Bad and Sick - if you meet people like this in the physical world, shun them like the vermin that they are.
well

Hamilton, Canada

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#12
Feb 24, 2013
 

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Ask North Korea what does a 'secure' border look like?
sba131

United States

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Feb 24, 2013
 

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well wrote:
Ask North Korea what does a 'secure' border look like?
Well said. Or how about Israel?
Sirius

Querétaro, Mexico

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#14
Feb 24, 2013
 
I think there is a confusion between "secure border" and "sealed border".

"Secure border" is something that will never exists for certain people. You could put some standards of the number of say, murders, smugglings, or passing of illegal migrants... and even attain them, but for certain people, any level in these things will be "too high".

"Sealed border" is something that resembles what happens along the DMZ between North Korea and South Korea.

Even "sealed border" is not equivalent of "secure border", since there are sometimes clashes along the DMZ.

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I think that some Americans that live north (e.g. New York) have the idea that the Mexican-American border looks everywhere like the photos you see in this kind of sensacionalist articles, with people jumping the fence, agents running behind them, etc.

The fact is that the border is crossed many millions of times a day. Millions of people go to side to that side or go shopping. That every day, 16,000 trucks, and many more thousends of cars cross to either side. Or so I have been told, since I don't live in the border. I only know that is the bussiest border of all the world in terms of crossings and trade.

Comments about putting artillery to bomb Mexico from the USA could tell a lot about the mentality of which says it, or a mood created by the media... but I think is something very far from the actual reality of the border, at least as I have found it after reading shallowly about some statistics.

Regards.
Sirius

Querétaro, Mexico

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#15
Feb 24, 2013
 

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When I google "US-Mexico border crossings", I get literaly hundreds of results about illegal border crossings, smuggling... but you have to look closer to find articles like this...

http://news.yahoo.com/busy-us-mexico-border-c...

It says, that 35,000 motorized vehicles cross the border every day IN JUST ONE OF THE US-Mexico border crossings. In fact, they are working overtime to expand that capacity. So I guess it is truth that, as I have benn said, every day millions of Mexicans and Americans cross the border to work or to shop to the other side.

Artillery in the US-Mexico border, DMZ style?

Borders similar of those that Israel share with Libanon or some parts of Palestine??

(I suppose, in those places, since I know there is a sofisticated wall or some kind, never regretably devoted my time to read about it).

Being honest, I am a kind of Mexican that look at Americans with the same simpathy that I look at most other countries and people. The "closing" of the US-Mexican border would be for me personally more or less indifferent (a balance of negative and positive consequences and opportunities).

But I think that at this moment, that vision of things do not reflect current trends, and its highly delusional, provoqued by mendacious Media that do not really inform.
Sirius

Querétaro, Mexico

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#16
Feb 24, 2013
 
sba131 wrote:
<quoted text> Well said. Or how about Israel?
I don't think that Israelies feel very secure nowadays, or any day in the last decades.

Successful terrorist attacks directly attributable to a foreign agent power were not reported in Mexico in many years.

The were some terrorist attacks in Mexico by the Miami Cubans in the 60s and 70s, but I think they killed very few people.

In 2001 some Mossad agents tried to blow the Mexican Congress, but they were caught before they succeeded.

https://www.google.com.mx/#hl=en&safe=off...

In general, even as Mexico has very little and incompetent intelligence (mostly devoted to spy leaders of political parties), Mexico do not live in fear of being terrorised by ouside powers, simply because it has a policy that to not trample other people's rights abroad.

Regards.
Faith

New Baltimore, MI

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#17
Feb 24, 2013
 

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It should be festooned with land mines.
Sirius

Querétaro, Mexico

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#18
Feb 24, 2013
 
Faith wrote:
It should be festooned with land mines.
Well, I don't know. Call your Representatives... or open a proposal in the White House website (or something like that).

In such channels sometimes very original proposal are heard.

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

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#19
Feb 24, 2013
 

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the border is secure when some guys trying to get in illegally cannot then and only then can it be called secure.
Concerned

Mexico, Mexico

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Feb 24, 2013
 

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http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/world_now/201...

I just read this report that Mexico as written in this Latin publication was #1 in the world for kidnappings. This report was from January of 2012. I also read recently in a Mexican newspaper that right now Mexico city is the highest in the world for kidnappings. I have been trying to find that paper and article. If anyone has any other information I would like to see it.

Here is a copy and paste from the link posted below.

While crime varies widely within Mexico depending upon location, the Department of State crime threat rating for Mexico City is CRITICAL. Armed robberies, express kidnappings, car thefts, carjackings, credit card fraud, and various forms of street crime are daily concerns. The low rate of convictions of criminals contributes to the high crime rate. There is no indication that criminals are specifically targeting tourists or foreigners; however, this does NOT mean that they avoid committing crimes against foreigners or tourists in the wrong place at the wrong time. Criminals select victims based on an appearance of vulnerability, prosperity, or a lack of awareness. Ostentatious displays of wealth are magnets for thieves in Mexico City. Wearing expensive jewelry, watches, and displays of large amounts of cash draw unwanted attention. Jewelry, expensive watches, and cellular phones can be sold easily in vast illegal markets. Although Mexico employs strict gun-control laws, criminals usually are armed with knives or handguns when carrying out street crime.

https://www.osac.gov/Pages/ContentReportDetai...

This is a pretty legitimate source for information on crime in Mexico City.
webb native

Brooklyn, NY

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#21
Feb 24, 2013
 
Nothing like your sisters crotch.

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