A Russia forgotten by Moscow

A Russia forgotten by Moscow

There are 25 comments on the Chicago Tribune story from Apr 12, 2008, titled A Russia forgotten by Moscow. In it, Chicago Tribune reports that:

KAMENKA, Russia - The van moves only a few feet every 15 seconds. Gear teeth sound as if they're being ground into bumps.

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John Donlon

Melrose Park, IL

#1 Apr 14, 2008
If this situation in Russia is as accurate as reported on April 13 as well as the looming food crisis on the Indian sub-continent, then the time is now to build the TKM World Link Bridge in the Bering Straits between the US and Russia. Connecting the continents to provide goods and services where needed in a timely, efficient way will spur the economic and infrastructure growth where it's needed. I think Tony Blair laid it right on the line in his post-9/11 speech to the US Congress when he bluntly said, "We can do all these things if we we want to." Kennedy said the same thing nearly 50 years ago: "We choose to do these things not because they are easy, but because they are hard."

Since: Apr 08

Vladimir, Russia

#2 Apr 21, 2008
A good article indeed!

It's just one of the few that disclose real life in Russia, not in Moscow. However, why did the author have to go to Kamenka or Borodinka to get such an impressive scene, I wonder? Surely, compared to Moscow, these people's life looks like a kind of top survival show, but...

Ever been to Kostroma, Ryazan, Vladimir, Kaluga regions? These cities are in the close vicinity of Moscow, not in the Far East or north of Russia but life there is more similar to that in Kamenka, and quite different from the conditions in the capital. Though not yet marked on maps, there's a distinct border between Moscow and "the rest of Russia".
Wages, education, state of roads and a lot more - these things differ extremely. And to know it well you may easily go one hundred miles away from Moscow and find youself in Russia as it is.

Since: Sep 07

Izhevsk, Russia

#3 Apr 21, 2008
Artyom Teryukalov wrote:
...disclose real life in Russia, not in Moscow...
But Moscow is a part of Russia, and it's 10% of population of Russia.
Besides there are Saint-Petersburg, Samara, Kazan, Yekaterinburg, Krasnodar, Novosibirsk, a number of wealthy 'oil&gas-grads'.
Surely there are a lot of poor areas. I visit the city of Murom now and then for example. Pity it's not easy to do something about it.
Traveller

Waterloo, Canada

#4 Apr 21, 2008
Hard to believe Russia should be rich and it's people living a similar standard of living to Canada with all it's riches.
Good thing oil prices are high or it could be even worse.
Russia's gold and foreign exchange reserves are at $508.0 billion now maybe they should try spending it on building programs instead of hoarding it.
One day i would like to travel on the The Trans-Siberian Railway and see your beautiful country.

Since: Sep 07

Izhevsk, Russia

#5 Apr 21, 2008
Traveller wrote:
Hard to believe Russia should be rich and it's people living a similar standard of living to Canada
Yes, that's a shame.
But not that hard to belive. Just consider this - WWI, revolution, civil war, WWII, cold war,'perestroyka' revolution, SU collapse. Virtually no chance for the quiet development during the 20th century.
Bob Burns

Kunming, China

#6 Apr 21, 2008
Spent 3 years touring Russia. What I saw was hard to believe. I tried to tell, but ears were closed, and I was rebuked. Now, slowly, the truth is coming out
Bob Burns

Kunming, China

#7 Apr 21, 2008
Bycha wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, that's a shame.
But not that hard to belive. Just consider this - WWI, revolution, civil war, WWII, cold war,'perestroyka' revolution, SU collapse. Virtually no chance for the quiet development during the 20th century.
None of the above, which are symptoms, not cause. Cause is nature of Russians
Traveller

Kitchener, Canada

#8 Apr 21, 2008
Bycha wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, that's a shame.
But not that hard to belive. Just consider this - WWI, revolution, civil war, WWII, cold war,'perestroyka' revolution, SU collapse. Virtually no chance for the quiet development during the 20th century.
Yep your right no quiet development time.
The Cold War was foolish and a waste of money by both sides.
I do hope very much the conditions improve for those who struggle.
Personally i think foreign investment would also help Russia but is it investor friendly.
Can't say i know but it generally not perceived to be.
Bob Burns

Kunming, China

#9 Apr 21, 2008
Traveller wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep your right no quiet development time.
The Cold War was foolish and a waste of money by both sides.
I do hope very much the conditions improve for those who struggle.
Personally i think foreign investment would also help Russia but is it investor friendly.
Can't say i know but it generally not perceived to be.
I thought so too. But after being there awhile, I realized that all the money since money was invented would not help and would just be wasted. Problem is not money, it is the nature of the people
Traveller

Kitchener, Canada

#10 Apr 22, 2008
Hi Bob i see your living in Beijing must be very interesting you get a front row ticket to the Olympics as well.
What years were you in Russia?
You must have seen lots of historical sights that i would like.
You think the corruption in Russia is the major problem?
Cheers

Since: Sep 07

Izhevsk, Russia

#11 Apr 22, 2008
Bob Burns wrote:
<quoted text>... it is the nature of the people
Surely the nature of the people is a problem.
But people are different here in Russia.(as i belive you can find different people in any country). And people can change to some extent.
Why exactly do you see in the nature of russians that makes you think we're hopeless?
Bob Burns

Kunming, China

#12 Apr 22, 2008
Traveller wrote:
Hi Bob i see your living in Beijing must be very interesting you get a front row ticket to the Olympics as well.
What years were you in Russia?
You must have seen lots of historical sights that i would like.
You think the corruption in Russia is the major problem? Cheers
Tho my ISP says Beijing, I live in the Himalayas close to Tibet. I went to the former SU in 91, in the spirit of hope. I reckoned with the fall of communism, the oppressed would flower up in freedom. There are those who visit a capital for two weeks and presume to know a country. I wanted a deeper, realer examination, so I spent 3 years, traveling to all parts. To tell the story would take a book. I would probably not live long after it's publication. As history unfolds over the next few decades, what I know will slowly become common knowledge. There are many, east and west, for whom this knowledge is dangerous, or fatal, and will suppress and deny. It is rather like a trip to hell. Coming back, and to say that devils exist, is threating to the devils among us who don't want to be seen or identified, and thus exposed
Blind lead Blind

Orlando, FL

#13 Apr 22, 2008
The Soviet Union created robots. There is no community mentality. A country that allows thousands of orphan children to live in sub-human conditions in their capital will never prosper. Down the drain.
Bob Burns

Kunming, China

#14 Apr 23, 2008
Blind lead Blind wrote:
The Soviet Union created robots. There is no community mentality. A country that allows thousands of orphan children to live in sub-human conditions in their capital will never prosper. Down the drain.
On the contrary. There is a strong community mentality. Why else do you think they were so quick to embrace Communism? It is the nature of that community mentality that is the problem. Among many problems

Why_Me

“Privet”

Since: Apr 07

Big Lake, Alaska USA

#15 Apr 24, 2008
Bob Burns wrote:
<quoted text>On the contrary. There is a strong community mentality. Why else do you think they were so quick to embrace Communism? It is the nature of that community mentality that is the problem. Among many problems
http://newsinfo.inquirer.net/breakingnews/inf... <--- Look what's comming to Russia soon.

Since: Apr 08

Vladimir, Russia

#16 Apr 25, 2008
Bycha wrote:
<quoted text>
But Moscow is a part of Russia, and it's 10% of population of Russia.
Besides there are Saint-Petersburg, Samara, Kazan, Yekaterinburg, Krasnodar, Novosibirsk, a number of wealthy 'oil&gas-grads'...
Big thanks to Bycha for giving me a geography lesson. It&#8217;s enlightening but it doesn&#8217;t prove why quite a few of the 90% are seeking a good job in Moscow, but not in Samara and the like. Incomers stand evidently a considerable part of the actual Moscow population and you know this clearly. I can&#8217;t say it&#8217;s solely Moscow that plays a key role in this. It&#8217;s not the matter of locality at all &#8216;cause people just tend to get close to money. Where, do you think, is more money &#8211; in Moscow or in Astrakhan, for instance?
Once I talked to a person who worked as a manager in an Astrakhan newspaper and I was told the only reason she kept holding on to that position was Gazprom who paid them good money. It was less than half a year ago. Just think how many more locals were backed by Gazprom?:) Or to make it exact, how many in general? I saw people there who&#8217;ve lived in half ruined barracks built back by German prisoners in mid-forties for decades. And it&#8217;s rather common that the lower storeys of the buildings are stuffed up with stinking junk and wastes left by those who have already fled from the place. And the upper storeys are inhabited so far! You know who these people are? Surprisingly they are not the scum of society. They are normal but just unlucky to work at a city marshalling yard. The people turned out to be responsible for their administration&#8217;s faults who plainly pump out handsome sums from their business. When the things concern something else but money the officials&#8217; answer is: &#8220;I couldn&#8217;t care less&#8230;&#8221; Not funny, isn&#8217;t it? We have a good saying: &#8220;Somewhere people earn money to get power whereas Russians get power to make money&#8221;, the translation sounds clumsy but it&#8217;s exact, I think.
I know quite a lot of such poor places in the central and southern federal district of Russia since I worked as a journalist and I had to make a report on these issues. I have to confess now things are not going that good in other regions either.
The reason why I write this is that I&#8217;m just sick of what I frequently see and hear on television. I mean the show of &#8220;substantial&#82 21; success in reforms effected by the ruling political party. I am getting sick of news telling us about the prospering Sochi at about a 12-hour car trip distance away from Makhachkala, the place known for its notorious late blackouts, and, by the way, still not the safest place in Russia, you know.

Since: Apr 08

Vladimir, Russia

#17 Apr 25, 2008
Ooops! Sorry Guys for the text quality but it is readable I hope.

Since: Apr 08

Vladimir, Russia

#18 Apr 25, 2008
Traveller wrote:
Good thing oil prices are high or it could be even worse.
High oil prices in Russia are good only for those who run this business. Probably you know these guys names. Ordinary Russians get almost nothing out of this but the soaring gas cost. And imho it seems nothing is going to change for the better about it in the next four years or more.
The corruption does not seem to be the major problem. It is more likely the apathy to it that affects much worse. We somehow got used to the fact we have to give an official some money otherwise we are shown out. The trials here are still not active though they fortunately seem to get more efficient.

Since: Sep 07

Izhevsk, Russia

#19 Apr 25, 2008
Artyom Teryukalov wrote:
<quoted text>
... are seeking a good job in Moscow, but not in Samara and the like...
I think it's journalist's specific.
I for example know people moved for a decent job to Saint-petersburg, Tumen', Novosibirsk.
Artyom Teryukalov wrote:
<quoted text>
Incomers stand evidently a considerable part of the actual Moscow population and you know this clearly. I can&#8217;t say it&#8217;s solely Moscow that plays a key role in this. It&#8217;s not the matter of locality at all &#8216;cause people just tend to get close to money. Where, do you think, is more money &#8211; in Moscow or in Astrakhan, for instance?...
So people are moving for better professional opportunities. Which is rather good.

Otherwise do you have any idea of what can be done about it? Wanna restore Soviet Union, huh?

Since: Sep 07

Izhevsk, Russia

#20 Apr 25, 2008
Artyom Teryukalov wrote:
<quoted text>
... Ordinary Russians get almost nothing out of this but the soaring gas cost...
You're exaggerating. There are millions of ordinary russians who got something out of this.
Anyway, i'd like to see any solutions.

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