U.S., Georgia miscalculate Russian de...

U.S., Georgia miscalculate Russian determination

There are 28 comments on the The Washington Times story from Aug 12, 2008, titled U.S., Georgia miscalculate Russian determination. In it, The Washington Times reports that:

The U.S. government was taken by surprise Friday when Mr. Putin unleashed the Russian army.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Washington Times.

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Red

Moonbeam, Canada

#1 Aug 15, 2008
Foolish and smug Angela Merkel and Sarkozy started this crisis by denying Georgia access to NATO MAP.

Th illegal and barbaric "scorched earth" invasion of democratic Georgia by neofascist Russia is also a very sad commentary on eight years of self-delusion in the White House regarding psychopathic Putin.

When Bush first met Putin and said he looked into his soul and could trust him.

Not long ago, Condi Rice claimed that American relations with Russia have never been better in history

Putin, who planned the dirty trick Pearl Harbor style invasion, on the opening of the Olympics has tried to make a fool of Bush.

Even with a limp American response, Georgia's friends like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine and others must stand up to Russia now to ensure the Russians fail in Georgia, or else it will be a Russian invasion of Ukraine next.

If attacked, democratic Ukraine must be prepared to unflinchingly devastate all neofascist Russia's gas pipelines and infrastructure as a deterrent and as a retaliation of Russian aggression.

This will be the smoky outcome of foolish and Pollyanaish Bush's, Rice's, Merkel's and Sarkozy's trust of Putin.
Andrew

Moscow, Russia

#2 Aug 15, 2008
Red wrote:
Foolish and smug Angela Merkel and Sarkozy started this crisis by denying Georgia access to NATO MAP.
Th illegal and barbaric "scorched earth" invasion of democratic Georgia by neofascist Russia is also a very sad commentary on eight years of self-delusion in the White House regarding psychopathic Putin.
When Bush first met Putin and said he looked into his soul and could trust him.
Not long ago, Condi Rice claimed that American relations with Russia have never been better in history
Putin, who planned the dirty trick Pearl Harbor style invasion, on the opening of the Olympics has tried to make a fool of Bush.
Even with a limp American response, Georgia's friends like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine and others must stand up to Russia now to ensure the Russians fail in Georgia, or else it will be a Russian invasion of Ukraine next.
If attacked, democratic Ukraine must be prepared to unflinchingly devastate all neofascist Russia's gas pipelines and infrastructure as a deterrent and as a retaliation of Russian aggression.
This will be the smoky outcome of foolish and Pollyanaish Bush's, Rice's, Merkel's and Sarkozy's trust of Putin.
Georgia was never "democratic".The aggresive Mishiko Saakashvili is the best friend of Yushenko ( the well known "democtrate " as well ). Two "democrats" protect "peace and democracy " in Iraq and Afganistan.....

“Pink Ponies of Justice”

Since: Sep 07

Moscow, Russia

#3 Aug 15, 2008
Saakashvili's wife Sandra Roelofs (Dutch woman) in 2004 said her husband want to follow traditions of Stalin and Beria.
Red

Moonbeam, Canada

#4 Aug 15, 2008
Russian disinformation may have fooled some but not everyone.

Foolish and smug Angela Merkel and Sarkozy started this crisis by denying Georgia access to NATO MAP.

Th illegal and barbaric "scorched earth" invasion of democratic Georgia by neofascist Russia is also a very sad commentary on eight years of self-delusion in the White House regarding psychopathic Putin.

When Bush first met Putin and said he looked into his soul and could trust him.

Not long ago, Condi Rice claimed that American relations with Russia have never been better in history

Putin, who planned the dirty trick Pearl Harbor style invasion, on the opening of the Olympics has tried to make a fool of Bush.

Even with a limp American response, Georgia's friends like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine and others must stand up to Russia now to ensure the Russians fail in Georgia, or else it will be a Russian invasion of Ukraine next.

If attacked, democratic Ukraine must be prepared to unflinchingly devastate all neofascist Russia's gas pipelines and infrastructure as a deterrent and as a retaliation of Russian aggression.

This will be the smoky outcome of foolish and Pollyanaish Bush's, Rice's, Merkel's and Sarkozy's trust of Putin.
romzic

Saint Lucia, Australia

#5 Aug 15, 2008
stupid canadian doesn't realize that the americans need russia. lets see what happens when bush and the rest want to put more sanctions against iran.russia has the power to veto it every time now after this.after 2010 america needs russia to send up rockets to supply the space station as america can't due to the space shuttle will be no longer due to retirement.all mouth and no brain for thinking as well the americans.besides bush and them should be happy that russia has gone in as they can sell arms to georgia now as well.
romzic

Saint Lucia, Australia

#6 Aug 15, 2008
now that polish want the american missile shield.if i was russia i would stop buying my meat and that off of them as well.then see who has the last laugh.
Bobo

Moonbeam, Canada

#7 Aug 15, 2008
This topic should be renamed "US, Georgia underestimate Russian treachery."
Bobo

Moonbeam, Canada

#8 Aug 15, 2008
Bush underestimated and still underestimates Russian treachery.

Ukraine is next on Putinist Russia's list.

Ukraine's grassroots democracy is a special threat to Putin because it could become contageous spreading into neofascist authoritarian Russia.

Expansionist Russia has always been expansionist and imperialistic. That should come as no surprise.

Neofascist Russia will not leave democratic Georgia any more that Russia has left Chechnya--except by force as in Afghanistan.

Russia, like the psychopathic neofascist aggressor it is, blames Georgia, the victim. Russ"ia will also orchestrate an invasion of Ukraine justified by some pretext of Russian victimhood."

The present tragicomical Sarkozy and Rice peace overtures are reminiscent of Neville Chamberlain and Hitler: "Peace in our time!" "Peace in our time!"

Russia in Hitlerite fashion has invaded Georgia the way Hitler invaded Czechoslovakia to "save the Sudetenland."

If Georgia had been admitted to NATO MAP, then there would not have been an illegal Russian invasion and crisis to democracy at all.

Russian disinformation may have fooled some western "liberals" but not everyone.

Foolish and smug Angela Merkel and Sarkozy, the Appeaser started this crisis by denying Georgia access to NATO MAP.

Th illegal and barbaric "scorched earth" invasion of democratic Georgia by neofascist Russia is also a very sad commentary on eight years of self-delusion in the White House regarding psychopathic Putin.

When Bush first met Putin and said he looked into his soul and could trust him.

Not long ago, Condi Rice claimed that American relations with Russia have never been better in history

Putin, who planned the dirty trick Pearl Harbor style invasion, on the opening of the Olympics has tried to make a fool of Bush.

Even with a limp American response, Georgia's friends like Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Ukraine and others must stand up to Russia now to ensure the Russians fail in Georgia, or else it will be a Russian invasion of Ukraine next.

If attacked, democratic Ukraine must be prepared to unflinchingly devastate all neofascist Russia's gas pipelines and infrastructure as a deterrent and as a retaliation of Russian aggression.

This will be the smoky and tragic outcome of foolish and Pollyanaish Bush's, Rice's, Merkel's and Sarkozy's trust of Putin.
Slobodan Saakashvili

West Wardsboro, VT

#9 Aug 15, 2008
I have sacrificed my civilian pawns to advance my bishop.
groznic

Saint Lucia, Australia

#10 Aug 15, 2008
american's are the biggest ones for doing things like that you mean not russia.
Alex

Indianapolis, IN

#11 Aug 19, 2008
Europe does not see Russia as an aggressor in this crisis, but if USA pursues its goal of bringing Georgia and Ukraine into NATO, there are only three options:
If Europe digs in its heals and refuses, on the grounds that it does not need Russia as an enemy, then either the United States drops its demands, or NATO breaks up. The third and perhaps likeliest alternative is that Europe agrees to let the two former Soviet republics join, but with unspoken reservation that they will never go to war with Russia. That would be a less dramatic end for NATO, but it would be an end. A tow-tier alliance is not alliance.

Times

“And what's YOUR problem?”

Since: May 07

Country life - USA

#12 Aug 19, 2008
Russia's Return Bites the Neocons' Grand Energy Scheme in the Ass

August 19, 2008.

You have to ask what were they smoking over at the Pentagon and the CIA when they thought they could control Russia's close neighbor. Tools
The feeble American response to Russia's assertion of power in the Caucasus of Central Asia was appropriate, since our claims of influence in that part of the world are laughable. The US had taken advantage of temporary confusion in Russia, during the ten-year-long post-Soviet-collapse interval, and set up a client government in Georgia, complete with military advisors, sales of weapons, and even the promise of club membership in the western alliance known as NATO. These blandishments were all in the service of the Baku-to-Ceyhan oil pipeline, which was designed specifically to drain the oil region around the Caspian Basin with an outlet on the Mediterranean, avoiding unfriendly nations all along the way.

Continued
http://www.alternet.org/audits/95546/

“And what's YOUR problem?”

Since: May 07

Country life - USA

#13 Aug 19, 2008
I was so proud of Americans yesterday. I was listening to MI radio, a station that tries to be fair and view both sides.

A called asked an official how they could blame Russia for attacking a soverign country when we attacked Iraq. Besides that didn't the conflict start when Georgia killed 15 peace makers.

The official stammered and studdered and replied, "Well, we don't have all the facts, it's very complex, but we know Russia started it.

Why? Because you say so? After 8 years of lies and deception?

I was proud that this American was wise enough to research instead of blindly following the Bush agenda.

There is a message in this for all countries.

Question your leaders and their actions. Don't that it for granted that the welfare of the people is at the forefront. Many times it's quite the opposite.
Swampmudd

AOL

#14 Aug 19, 2008

(posted aug 8 on WIRED)Georgia and Russia are careening towards war. And the U.S. isn't exactly a detached observer in the fight. The American military has been training and equipping Georgian troops for years.

The news thus far: Georgia, which has been locked in a drone war over the separatist enclave of Abkhazia, has launched an offensive to reclaim another breakaway territory, South Ossetia. Latest reports indicate that Georgian forces are laying siege to Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital. And Russia, which has backed the separatists, is sending in the tanks.

So why should we care? Oh, just the prospect of a larger regional war that could drag in Russia – and involve the United States as well. Since early 2002, the U.S. government has given a healthy amount of military aid to Georgia. When I last visited South Ossetia, Georgian troops manned a checkpoint outside Tskhinvali -- decked out in surplus U.S. Army uniforms and new body armor.

The first U.S. aid came under the rubric of the Georgia Train and Equip Program (ostensibly to counter alleged Al Qaeda influence in the Pankisi Gorge); then, under the Sustainment and Stability Operations Program. Georgia returned the favor, committing thousands of troops to the multi-national coalition in Iraq. Last fall, the Georgians doubled their contingent, making them the third-largest contributor to the coalition. Not bad for a nation of 4.6 million people.

Leaving aside the question of Russian interference (see below), the larger concern has been that Georgia might be tempted to use its newfound military prowess to resolve domestic conflicts by force.

As Sergei Shamba, the foreign affairs minister of Abkhazia, told me in 2006:“The Georgians are euphoric because they have been equipped, trained, that they have gained military experience in Iraq. It feeds this revanchist mood… How can South Ossetia be demilitarized, when all of Georgia is bristling with weaponry, and it’s only an hour’s ride by tank from Tbilisi to Tskhinvali?”

One of the U.S. military trainers put it to me a bit more bluntly.“We’re giving them the knife,” he said.“Will they use it?”
Swampmudd

AOL

#15 Aug 19, 2008
Alex wrote:
Europe does not see Russia as an aggressor in this crisis, but if USA pursues its goal of bringing Georgia and Ukraine into NATO, there are only three options:
If Europe digs in its heals and refuses, on the grounds that it does not need Russia as an enemy, then either the United States drops its demands, or NATO breaks up. The third and perhaps likeliest alternative is that Europe agrees to let the two former Soviet republics join, but with unspoken reservation that they will never go to war with Russia. That would be a less dramatic end for NATO, but it would be an end. A tow-tier alliance is not alliance.
Times
Of course the other answer is we elect Obama and stop arming a bunch of eastern European thugs.

Since: Aug 08

Cary, IL

#16 Aug 19, 2008
...once again the UN (United Nitwits) is at the center of a cry for help from the world...and once again they present impotently. The world begs for help from an organization DESIGNED to deal with this type of issue and all they do is provide the best evidence anyone could hope for in making the case that the UN should be shuttered.
ads

Philadelphia, PA

#17 Aug 19, 2008
Red

Moonbeam, Canada

#18 Aug 19, 2008
Putin, in his psychopathy, has miscalculated the looming retaliation for the illegal and barbarous neofascist Russian attack on Georgia, a fledgling and small democracy.
pete

AOL

#19 Aug 19, 2008
RUSSIA IS IN BETTER SHAP THEN WE ARE CJINA OWNS THE U.S.A.BUSH GAVE IT TO CHINA THIS COUNTRY IS BANKRUPT!RUSSIA WAS BROKE AFTER AFGANISTAN BUT SOLD ENOUGH WEAPONS TO THE TERRORIST TO GET STRONG AGAIN,THATS WHAT YOU GET WHEN YOU VOTE A DRUNK INTO OFFICE LIKE BUSH!!!!!!NOW THE DUMMYS ARE GOING TO VOTE A DRUNK AND DRUG ADDICT INTO OFFICE
lynnette

Lamoni, IA

#20 Aug 19, 2008
that was a very interesting article, by Martin Sieff, of UPI - United Press International, I assume, a competitor of AP (Associated Press) I assume. Interesting, since AP bureau in Washington DC is under suspicion of being too pro-McCain and slanted. Because Washington Times is certianly pro-McCain and Bush,. etc., and slanted. At least they have some pretense to journalism, by printing this article. Just don't believe them in general!

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