Beggars and Lenders - BSF Lease

Russian diplomats and politicians demand that Ukraine comply with the terms of the agreements on stationing the Russian Black Sea Fleet in Crimea.

[Smetana]

A MUST READ for a better understanding of the BSF lease.

[Maksim]

As transparent as any other deal between governments of Russia and Ukraine

[Baba Lu]

Good article. This should be forwarded internationally together with what Ukraine rightfully deserves. I bet there are a few countries out there that support a democratic Ukraine and would give a long term low interest loan to pay off the debt in one shot. Once this happens Ukraine can use the WTO to demand changes which Russia would have to fulfill in order to gain entry.

[Swandiver]

Just goes to show how important a free press is to uncover such gross negligence.

[Stefan]

Interesting to look at the estimates and how much the leases could go for if they were broken down. The low lease cost was $250M and the high was a few Billion.

Also the value of the BSF when it was split up and partitioned. Value was higher as scape steel.

[Swandiver]

Ukraine must never renew the lease regardless of the seemingly negligently lost lease revenues.

[Foresttoday]

This blog sure sounds like a lot of Pro-Ukrainians writing here, care if I join you?:-) I am an American from the Mt.St.Helens region that is married to a Zaporozhyian. Just now reading a book on the battle of Sevastopol in 1942, and now it looks as if the battle of Sevastopol will take place again in 2017? Go Ukraine,

[ignatovsky]

I wrote a comment yesterday, which rightfully questioned what appears to be the Ukrainian government's ongoing collusion in this shameful debacle... I had harsh words for both sides.

Today, it is not here! Why was it removed??

Those of you who know my posts, know that I was born in Kiev, left in '77, and until recently visiting my hometown considered myself, Russian... But with increased research and participation in this group I've shifted my loyalties and consider myself - at least partially (because of ongoing anti-Semitism)- Ukrainian!!

I stated in my post that the Ukrainian Gov. should be ashamed of allowing this situation to continue... An open discussion benefits all sides. Why was my post deleted?!?!?

[Smetana]

ignatovsky wrote:

I wrote a comment yesterday, which rightfully questioned what appears to be the Ukrainian government's ongoing collusion in this shameful debacle... I had harsh words for both sides.
Today, it is not here! Why was it removed??
Those of you who know my posts, know that I was born in Kiev, left in '77, and until recently visiting my hometown considered myself, Russian... But with increased research and participation in this group I've shifted my loyalties and consider myself - at least partially (because of ongoing anti-Semitism)- Ukrainian!!
I stated in my post that the Ukrainian Gov. should be ashamed of allowing this situation to continue... An open discussion benefits all sides. Why was my post deleted?!?!?

I remember your commment and have no idea why it would be removed. It was probably just a glitch and not any censorship on the part of Topix becuase of all the other comments that are vulgar are allowed to remain.

[Estonian]

sensational video about Russian pedofiel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

[Smetana]

ignatovsky wrote:

I wrote a comment yesterday, which rightfully questioned what appears to be the Ukrainian government's ongoing collusion in this shameful debacle... I had harsh words for both sides.
Today, it is not here! Why was it removed??
Those of you who know my posts, know that I was born in Kiev, left in '77, and until recently visiting my hometown considered myself, Russian... But with increased research and participation in this group I've shifted my loyalties and consider myself - at least partially (because of ongoing anti-Semitism)- Ukrainian!!
I stated in my post that the Ukrainian Gov. should be ashamed of allowing this situation to continue... An open discussion benefits all sides. Why was my post deleted?!?!?

Further, please don't let this discourage you from participating in the forums. Your comments are thoughtful and fair.

[ignatovsky]

Smetana wrote:

<quoted text>Further, please don't let this discourage you from participating in the forums. Your comments are thoughtful and fair.

Smetana, thank you for your reply.

[Smetana]

ignatovsky wrote:

<quoted text>
Smetana, thank you for your reply.

Your welcome, and as being a Ukrainian of Russian descent your comments are a good insight to an aspect of Ukrainian culture that is strong and dominant and will play a vital role in formulating the future of Ukraine. Kravchuk helped found Ukraine not on ethnicity but on being a contributing member of society that resides in Ukraine.

For better or worse Russians and Russified Ukrainians are what makes Ukraine unique today. Ukraine will not be pure Ukrainian in the Galician sense in our lifetime or ever. There must be a consensus on where Ukraine will pave its future path with these people in mind. As Yushchenko stated today Ukraine's position will be that as an intermediary between Russia and the EU. This is the main selling point for Ukraine to be in the EU. It will also be the driving factor for reform in Russia. I hope that Ukraine and Russia work out their differences both historically and politically so that both can become true members of the European community.

I think this is the goal of all people who take interest in Ukraine and Russia today, the diaspora, onlookers and citizens of Russia and Ukraine.

[ignatovsky]

Smetana wrote:

<quoted text>Your welcome, and as being a Ukrainian of Russian descent your comments are a good insight to an aspect of Ukrainian culture that is strong and dominant and will play a vital role in formulating the future of Ukraine. Kravchuk helped found Ukraine not on ethnicity but on being a contributing member of society that resides in Ukraine.
For better or worse Russians and Russified Ukrainians are what makes Ukraine unique today. Ukraine will not be pure Ukrainian in the Galician sense in our lifetime or ever. There must be a consensus on where Ukraine will pave its future path with these people in mind. As Yushchenko stated today Ukraine's position will be that as an intermediary between Russia and the EU. This is the main selling point for Ukraine to be in the EU. It will also be the driving factor for reform in Russia. I hope that Ukraine and Russia work out their differences both historically and politically so that both can become true members of the European community.
I think this is the goal of all people who take interest in Ukraine and Russia today, the diaspora, onlookers and citizens of Russia and Ukraine.

I wholeheartedly agree!

I must state that except for my paternal grandmother who was from Belorus, all my "predki" had lived in Ukraine for generations. Why did I always think of myself as "Russian?" Because we're Jews! And thus - at least under the Communists - not Russians, and certainly not Ukrainians. When we immigrated to the States, people would ask where are you from? I knew I wasn't Ukrainian... maybe I was Russian? The joke amongst us was: "we left 'Russia' because they called us 'Jews' only to come to America and be called Russians!!" I worked hard in politics to bring an end to the Soviet Union, But it left me without a country of origin. When I whent in for a new passport, USSR was no longer an option, I was now Ukrainian. This may seem silly [what's in a name, right?] but it was a major epiphany! I started reading, and I went back to my beloved Kiev, unfortunately, just six months prior to the Orange Revolution. I was so proud to see a hopeful people, there was palpable change - some good some bad - but that's the case anywhere. I was proud to see new churches, and old ones restored. My family lived at 16 Yanvarskovo Vostanie, across from Park Slavy. When I visited I sat in the Lavra courtyard and I felt myself at home. I saw a lot of churches, but I also visited a Synogogue, I asked the young men there who were studying: why are you here, don't you want to go to Israel, or America? They said "No, this is our home." That gave me a lot of hope!!
My parent's generation, doesn't quite understand my new-found love for Ukraine. Their memory is filled with the horrors of history: the pogroms, the forced evictions, the taunts of Christ killer, and official Soviet anti-Semitism. But it is my fervent hope that that was the Russian Empire, and it's succesor the Soviet Empire's way of dealing with a subjugated people. As you say Smetana, Ukraine must be, first and foremost, a Society of People who reside in Ukraine. As I sat around a table, during my last visit, with my Pravoslavnaya Aunt and new friends, some Russian, most Ukrainian, all inteligensia, it became clear to me - this is the new Ukraine! So, YES Ukraine for Ukrainians - Like those Zaporozhtsy writing to the Sultan - free, freedom-loving people, who hate nothing except tyranny!

[Bear]

ignatovsky wrote:

<quoted text>
I wholeheartedly agree!
I must state that except for my paternal grandmother who was from Belorus, all my "predki" had lived in Ukraine for generations. Why did I always think of myself as "Russian?" Because we're Jews! And thus - at least under the Communists - not Russians, and certainly not Ukrainians. When we immigrated to the States, people would ask where are you from? I knew I wasn't Ukrainian... maybe I was Russian? The joke amongst us was: "we left 'Russia' because they called us 'Jews' only to come to America and be called Russians!!" I worked hard in politics to bring an end to the Soviet Union, But it left me without a country of origin. When I whent in for a new passport, USSR was no longer an option, I was now Ukrainian. This may seem silly [what's in a name, right?] but it was a major epiphany! I started reading, and I went back to my beloved Kiev, unfortunately, just six months prior to the Orange Revolution. I was so proud to see a hopeful people, there was palpable change - some good some bad - but that's the case anywhere. I was proud to see new churches, and old ones restored. My family lived at 16 Yanvarskovo Vostanie, across from Park Slavy. When I visited I sat in the Lavra courtyard and I felt myself at home. I saw a lot of churches, but I also visited a Synogogue, I asked the young men there who were studying: why are you here, don't you want to go to Israel, or America? They said "No, this is our home." That gave me a lot of hope!!
My parent's generation, doesn't quite understand my new-found love for Ukraine. Their memory is filled with the horrors of history: the pogroms, the forced evictions, the taunts of Christ killer, and official Soviet anti-Semitism. But it is my fervent hope that that was the Russian Empire, and it's succesor the Soviet Empire's way of dealing with a subjugated people. As you say Smetana, Ukraine must be, first and foremost, a Society of People who reside in Ukraine. As I sat around a table, during my last visit, with my Pravoslavnaya Aunt and new friends, some Russian, most Ukrainian, all inteligensia, it became clear to me - this is the new Ukraine! So, YES Ukraine for Ukrainians - Like those Zaporozhtsy writing to the Sultan - free, freedom-loving people, who hate nothing except tyranny!

Wow, what a wonderful post. First-hand facts instead of the usual "view from a distance" tripe written by so many.
Spasibo bolshoi
Go Ykpaiha