RF does not recognize Holodomor as genocide in Ukraine

Foreign Ministry of the Russian Federation considers that announcement of the Holodomor 1932-1933 as genocide towards Ukrainian people is "one-sided perversion of history to play up to modern market ...

[BsBuster]

The Eurasian union was a Russian state sponsored protest.Russia always does this type of thing for political purposes .Until Russia accepts that the Holodomor was state sponsered genocide by the USSR Russia will continue to be considered a two - bit rogue state in the world .The 'Russians' that died were in the Kuban and along the Ukrainian borders where 6 million Ukrainians lived in 1933.It was state murder of the Ukrainian farmers on both sides of the border. The fact that 85% of the deaths were ethnic Ukrainians shows it was targeted.Hitler learned his lessons from Stalin and later targeted the jews also.Russia will be shunned by the world for its stupid stance that is contrary to all the history.This attitude will however ensure Ukraine will never allow Russia to control its internal policies until the end of time . Shame on Russia.

[Krishnamurty]

They were liars then. They are liars now. The singers change but the Russian song remains the same.

[coolncrazy]

Russian foreign minister argued the position very well.

[BsBuster]

coolncrazy wrote:

Russian foreign minister argued the position very well.

An educated person can argue their position very well .That is not the point .Germany has accepted the crimes of the Nazis and has become a respected country . Russia cannot even accept in a realistic way the crimes the USSR committed against its own people.This is not a good thing for Russia and is not a good thing for the Russian people .It would be easy to say that the USSR sponsored state terrorism against the Ukrainian nation that amounted to genocide .It is not a bad reflection on Russians today to say that . Russia has instead just defined itself as an undemocratic rogue state . Buyt vi proklati !

[coolncrazy]

BsBuster wrote:

<quoted text> An educated person can argue their position very well .That is not the point .Germany has accepted the crimes of the Nazis and has become a respected country . Russia cannot even accept in a realistic way the crimes the USSR committed against its own people.

Russia has condemned all the crimes of Stalin's regime. Millions of people was murdered. They was of many nationalities (but most of them were Russians), so that was mass murdering without nationalist reason. Russia condemned the real crimes. Do you know what is genocide? Probably not.

[BsBuster]

coolncrazy wrote:

<quoted text>
Russia has condemned all the crimes of Stalin's regime. Millions of people was murdered. They was of many nationalities (but most of them were Russians), so that was mass murdering without nationalist reason. Russia condemned the real crimes. Do you know what is genocide? Probably not.

So why does Russia not support Ukraine as 15 civilized countries have done in this ? Genocide is the intentional destruction of the Ukrainian people and culture which is what happened between 1930 and 1939. Only a fool or a liar would not understand this.

[Krishnamurty]

The Russian position is disingenuous. Just like a Holocaust denier, Russia denies the Bolshevik Russian Terror-Famine of 1932-1933 [Holodomor.]

Russia committed more than one genocide that is why there are groups trying to bring awareness to these events.

Nazi Germany also committed genocide against more than one group.

Committing several genocides does not excuse any of them.

Russia deliberately committed genocides as part of its colonialism of conquered regions.

Today Russia is continuing to commit genocide in Chechnya.

Russia continues to cover up these dark chapters of its history and is trying to rehabilitate Stalin and his henchmen, the world's worst mass murderers.

It would be ludicrous to excuse Nazi Germany for genocide against Jews by arguibg that Nazi germany also genocided Gypsies or Roma people.

Likewise it is also preposterous to excuse the Russian Terror-Famine in 1932-1933 against Ukraine because other atrocities were ongoing against others, such as Crimean Tatars.

Russia must account for all of its genocides, the biggest single one being the Russian Bolshevik Terror-Famine of 1932-1933 which was focussed on Ukrainians in ethnographic territories of Ukrainian SSR, Don and Kuban areas.

Russia must cease its campaign of outrageous and shameless, and often assinine, lies about the Russian Bolshevik Terror-Famine of 1932-1933 [Holodomor] and other genocides.

Genocide in Ukraine
http://www.youtube.com/watch...

[coolncrazy]

BsBuster wrote:

<quoted text>So why does Russia not support Ukraine as 15 civilized countries have done in this ?

Because it was not genocide. Mass murdering without ethnicity reason is not genocide. But it's a crime, of course. Against the people of USSR.

[BsBuster]

coolncrazy wrote:

<quoted text>
Because it was not genocide. Mass murdering without ethnicity reason is not genocide. But it's a crime, of course. Against the people of USSR.

You are playing with words.I support President Yushchenko on this initiative.

[coolncrazy]

Krishnamurty wrote:

Likewise it is also preposterous to excuse the Russian Terror-Famine in 1932-1933 against Ukraine because other atrocities were ongoing against others, such as Crimean Tatars.

Am I right in understanding your position:
For example: If group of Ukrainian citizens of USSR from NKVD kills Russians, then there is no problem. But if group of Ukrainian citizens of USSR by order of Georgian Stalin kills peoples of many nationalities (including Russians), then the Ukrainian murderers and Georgian Stalin will change their nationality to Russians and the victims will be Ukrainians, Tatars and so on?

You have interesting point of view...

[BsBuster]

coolncrazy wrote:

<quoted text>
Am I right in understanding your position:
For example: If group of Ukrainian citizens of USSR from NKVD kills Russians, then there is no problem. But if group of Ukrainian citizens of USSR by order of Georgian Stalin kills peoples of many nationalities (including Russians), then the Ukrainian murderers and Georgian Stalin will change their nationality to Russians and the victims will be Ukrainians, Tatars and so on?
You have interesting point of view...

Then why was all food removed and why were the borders closed to Ukrainians only ( this did not apply to Russians )Ukrainians were not free to travel into the RSFR to get food. This order was signed by Kaganovich ,Stalin and Molotov in 1932. Ukrainians only were not allowed on trains headed to the RSFR that had sufficient food . You do not know the true history as your schools in Russia do not teach it .Ukrainians were targeted for extermination .

[Canuck]

BsBuster wrote:

<quoted text>So why does Russia not support Ukraine as 15 civilized countries have done in this ? Genocide is the intentional destruction of the Ukrainian people and culture which is what happened between 1930 and 1939. Only a fool or a liar would not understand this.

Why should Russia support the Ukrainian genocide hoax? The famine was not only in the Ukraine, but in many other parts of the region.
The "genocide" theory simply does not fit that what occured in Ukraine in 1932-33.
Stalin was the head of the Soviet Union during this time. Perhaps you should sue him.
The only reason the Ukrainians want to lay blame on the Russians is that Russia is affluent and the impoverished Ukraine wants money.

[Krishnamurty]

coolncrazy wrote:

<quoted text>
Because it was not genocide. Mass murdering without ethnicity reason is not genocide. But it's a crime, of course. Against the people of USSR.

The famine was clearly aimed at Ukrainians to further Russian colonialism and death grip on Ukraine.

[Krishnamurty]

This is the UN definition of genocide:

Article II: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Russia carried out the genocide in Ukraine just as it is carried out a genocide against Crimean Tatars, just as it carried out genocide against Circassians, and is now carrying out a genocide in Chechnya.

[Robespierre]

coolncrazy wrote:

<quoted text>
Russia has condemned all the crimes of Stalin's regime. Millions of people was murdered. They was of many nationalities (but most of them were Russians), so that was mass murdering without nationalist reason. Russia condemned the real crimes. Do you know what is genocide? Probably not.

These people are only interested in revenge.

They want Russia to admit alledged crimes committed in the name of the WHOLE Soviet Union, and they sue for compensation.

They can smell Russian oil money, and that's all that interest them. They are just like scroungers and leeches.

Krishnamurty, Jampa and other clowns of the same ilk are just frustrated anti-Russian troublemakers that nobody should take seriously.

It's all part of a campaign of defamation and an attempt to tarnish the image of Russia lead by these characters, who are not Ukrainian, Chechen, or even ex-soviet but live in North America.

[BsBuster]

Robespierre wrote:

<quoted text>
These people are only interested in revenge.
They want Russia to admit alledged crimes committed in the name of the WHOLE Soviet Union, and they sue for compensation.
They can smell Russian oil money, and that's all that interest them. They are just like scroungers and leeches.
Krishnamurty, Jampa and other clowns of the same ilk are just frustrated anti-Russian troublemakers that nobody should take seriously.
It's all part of a campaign of defamation and an attempt to tarnish the image of Russia lead by these characters, who are not Ukrainian, Chechen, or even ex-soviet but live in North America.

William ,in all of your guises you are a disingenuous . I suppose you also do not acknowlwdge that the enclosure laws of the 1840's ,where Irish peasants were forced of the land to starve to death which was approoved by the English parliament to maximize profit, didn't happen either . Genocidal activity happens in all races . The Irish will never forget either.

[Stefan]

Robespierre wrote:

<quoted text>
These people are only interested in revenge.
They want Russia to admit alledged crimes committed in the name of the WHOLE Soviet Union, and they sue for compensation.
They can smell Russian oil money, and that's all that interest them. They are just like scroungers and leeches.
Krishnamurty, Jampa and other clowns of the same ilk are just frustrated anti-Russian troublemakers that nobody should take seriously.
It's all part of a campaign of defamation and an attempt to tarnish the image of Russia lead by these characters, who are not Ukrainian, Chechen, or even ex-soviet but live in North America.

Not revenge ........ just the truth.

[Canuck]

Stefan wrote:

<quoted text>
Not revenge ........ just the truth.

Stefan, you and your kind wouldn't recognize the truth if it smacked you upside your head.
You are not interested in the truth because you and yours are just a bunch of clowns trying to alter history and at the same time villify innocent people.
Oh yes, of course, then you will sue.

[BsBuster]

Oh sure. We want to sue 'rich 'Russia where 90% of the villages have no running water or sewer system and where the average Russian makes less than 5000 dollars a year.I don't think the money is collectible. It is all in the hands of the Oligarchs. Russia can barely sustain itself and with its incomprehensible attitude to Ukraine,Russia is loosing friends fast.Russia runs on exploiting its population of 140 million of which 110 million live in impoverished rural poverty and the only solace is vodka and intervenous drug use and as a result there is rampant Hiv and Aids.Ukraine is making a run for the west ,for good reason .As usual ,the enlightened Ukrainians are about 50 years ahead of the traditionally backward Russians.The Russians have just shot themselves in the foot and have reminded all of Europe of Russia's backwardness and crudeness(as if Europe needed to be reminded ),after 70 years of communism and incivility as Poland ,Czechoslovakia,the Baltic states ,East Germany and all the countries that suffered behind the iron curtain very well know .Russia's arrogance has no bounds. LOL with getting into the European economic structures.

[Stefan]

Canuck wrote:

<quoted text>
Stefan, you and your kind wouldn't recognize the truth if it smacked you upside your head.
You are not interested in the truth because you and yours are just a bunch of clowns trying to alter history and at the same time villify innocent people.
Oh yes, of course, then you will sue.

My kind of people are about 2.5 million strong in North America. We speak from direct cultural experience and have retained real knowledge of history, not just what some commissar wrote down.

Your kind are in the few thousands (at most) in North America, and you are confused bunch, scattered here and there with no real community support. You are loners who are disillusioned by your lack of cultural identity.

Genetically Ukrainians and Russians have similar blood lines. Really, I feel pity, more than anything else, for my eastern Russian cousins.