Is there a "smoking gun" for the Holodomor?

In his seminal study on genocide, Leo Kuper observed that "governments hardly declare and document genocidal plans in the manner of the Nazis" [1]. Nevertheless, since modern states cannot function without ...

[BsBuster]

This is a well researched Holodomor article that appears on the Russian Topix site .

[Sunny]

I cannot believe that after reading this article anyone would vote or even consider Communists a viable political party. When the government kills their own people to get ahead, it is the most terrible kind of crime.

[Jampa]

Sunny wrote:

I cannot believe that after reading this article anyone would vote or even consider Communists a viable political party. When the government kills their own people to get ahead, it is the most terrible kind of crime.

Actually the Russian imperialist Bolshevik henchmen never considered Ukrainians or the other conquered nations as "their people."

Today the same phenomenon is repeating itself. Putin is "breaking the back" of another conquered nation --the Chechens.

[verge]

Jampa wrote:

Today the same phenomenon is repeating itself.

Bla-bla-bla-bla...

[Krishnamurty]

BsBuster wrote:

This is a well researched Holodomor article that appears on the Russian Topix site .

This is one of the best articles I have read on the subject recently. It is encouraging that academia is unearthing the evidence that will undo decades of Russian disinformation parroted and regurgitated by the left in the USA.

[BsBuster]

verge wrote:

<quoted text>
Bla-bla-bla-bla...

That is not the point . The article and documents present a very strong case for genocide by the USSR against the Ukrainian people.I am sure many in Russia do not know of their Ukrainian roots because of USSR suppression in much of South Russia and the Kuban . Read the article.

[Sunny]

You are using very strong words there, Jampa,“Russian imperialist Bolshevik henchmen” and “breaking the back” of Chechens. Communism is an evil idea anywhere it took roots and it s not a Russian phenomena. The main point is to learn the lessons that history is teaching us here. The West has never been a long term supporter of the Slavic nations. That would include Russians, Ukrainians, Byelorussians, and Poles etc. Look at the Armenian genocide, has it been recognized by the West for what is (outside France)? The hope is not in the West coming and “rescuing” the Eastern European countries from their “misery”, but the effort of working together.

As far as the Chechen idea is concerned, it is not a viable separatist idea. Following that thought process, Texas in the US should be independent since more than 50% of the population is Hispanic, Basque region is Spain and in France should gain its’ autonomy and the Serbs should be left to be driven out and slaughtered by the Albanians in Kosovo as a result of the Kosovo independence (a repeat of the 2004 riots in the region). Maybe Chicago should declare independence and be annexed to Poland too.

[Robespierre]

Sunny wrote:

You are using very strong words there, Jampa,“Russian imperialist Bolshevik henchmen” and “breaking the back” of Chechens. Communism is an evil idea anywhere it took roots and it s not a Russian phenomena. The main point is to learn the lessons that history is teaching us here. The West has never been a long term supporter of the Slavic nations. That would include Russians, Ukrainians, Byelorussians, and Poles etc. Look at the Armenian genocide, has it been recognized by the West for what is (outside France)? The hope is not in the West coming and “rescuing” the Eastern European countries from their “misery”, but the effort of working together.
As far as the Chechen idea is concerned, it is not a viable separatist idea. Following that thought process, Texas in the US should be independent since more than 50% of the population is Hispanic, Basque region is Spain and in France should gain its’ autonomy and the Serbs should be left to be driven out and slaughtered by the Albanians in Kosovo as a result of the Kosovo independence (a repeat of the 2004 riots in the region). Maybe Chicago should declare independence and be annexed to Poland too.

Try to tell that dim-wit idiot something that makes sense is a waste of time.

He is part of an anti-Russian fanatic group that will apply double standards as long as it suit them.

Coherent discussion with this lot is impossible.

[Stefan]

Sunny wrote:

As far as the Chechen idea is concerned, it is not a viable separatist idea. Following that thought process, Texas in the US should be independent since more than 50% of the population is Hispanic, Basque region is Spain and in France should gain its’ autonomy and the Serbs should be left to be driven out and slaughtered by the Albanians in Kosovo as a result of the Kosovo independence (a repeat of the 2004 riots in the region). Maybe Chicago should declare independence and be annexed to Poland too.

Follow this thought process through. Chechnia had a thriving independent cultural community,for Hundreds of years, before they were absorbed into the Russian Federation by force. They were basically a separate country and people who had their own religion, and their own form of government. They were not a collection of roaming nomads waiting to be conquered.

The only land Russia is ethnically entitled to is North of the lower Volga river and east of the Urals. Every thing was attacked, conquered, exploited and absorbed into present day Russia.

I don't even believe that Russia has any geographical rights to border the Black Sea. It just so happens that the population south of the Volga, are now a Russian majority.

[Krishnamurty]

[21.11.2007 17:38]
Yushchenko opened exhibition on Holodomor of 1932-1933

President of Ukraine Victor Yushchenko opened the exhibition “Ukraine Remembers! Holodomor of 1932-1933 – Genocide of Ukrainian Nation” in the Ukrainian House in Kyiv.

According to an UNIAN correspondent, speaking at the opening ceremony, the President pointed out that the tragedy of the Ukraine’s Great Famine [Holodomor] may be regarded in several dimensions: in particular, in solely a human dimension, considering the scales of victims, and also the national and international dimensions.

Victor Yushchenko recalled that in Soviet times, Ukrainians were taught to forget their history, in particular, the tragedy of 1932-33.

He also stressed that a test number one for every Ukrainian is the question:“Is it a tragedy personally for you or not?”

According to Victor Yushchenko, the nation, which forgets about victims of such tragedies, has no perspective.

ctnstant URL of article:
http://www.unian.net/eng/news/news-222837.htm...

[Sunny]

Robespierre wrote:

<quoted text>
Try to tell that dim-wit idiot something that makes sense is a waste of time.
He is part of an anti-Russian fanatic group that will apply double standards as long as it suit them.
Coherent discussion with this lot is impossible.

Thank you. I am glad that there is at least person who is sees things for what they are. I consider myself a Ukrainian patriot, yet I did not think that you have to hate Russia and blindly support any separatist movement regardless of their methods.

[John]

I am an American living in Ukraine at present. I do not have Russia or its people. I do not like their political situation but that is with many countries. What happened to Ukraine was a tragedy and should be acknowledged to clean the slate. Unfortionately those in charge at present time in Russia are not of a opinion that it matters.

[Jampa]

Research on Holodomor Russian Bolshevik Genocide Against Ukraine of 1932-1933 will be ongoing for several years. It is crucial that all evidence be digitalized and downloadable for university academicians and scholars around the world over the internet. Research should also highlight parallels to genocides elsewhere, and impact on subsequent events such as Holocaust, other world genocides involving hunger as a murder weapon, as well as other genocides within Russian empire. See news article posted today:

22 November 2007 | 16:55
Program of Holodomor research is developed

The institute of the national memory has elaborated the program of research of Holodomor in Ukraine of 1932-1933. Director of the institute Ihor Yukhnovsky has informed on Thursday at a briefing in the President’s Secretariat.

According to Yukhnovsky, the institute has started the full-scale program of Holodomor research, which will last till 2012. He has informed that nowadays the program is under consideration in the Cabinet of Ministers.

The main aim of the program is the proof of premeditation of actions of the leadership of the USSR, which caused Holodomor in Ukraine.

Yukhnovsky has said that these actions are the crime against the humanity and the world, in compliance with the Roman regulations of the International crime court.

[Jampa]

For excellent footage of Bolshevik Terror-Famine Against Ukraine 1932-1933 see:

HOLODOMOR
http://video.google.ca/videoplay...

[Jigme]

Great Famine Anniversary in Ukraine
By MARIA DANILOVA
Associated Press
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gcNKxnyzuy...

[Bear]

Sunny wrote:

You are using very strong words there, Jampa,“Russian imperialist Bolshevik henchmen” and “breaking the back” of Chechens. Communism is an evil idea anywhere it took roots and it s not a Russian phenomena. The main point is to learn the lessons that history is teaching us here. The West has never been a long term supporter of the Slavic nations. That would include Russians, Ukrainians, Byelorussians, and Poles etc. Look at the Armenian genocide, has it been recognized by the West for what is (outside France)? The hope is not in the West coming and “rescuing” the Eastern European countries from their “misery”, but the effort of working together.
As far as the Chechen idea is concerned, it is not a viable separatist idea. Following that thought process, Texas in the US should be independent since more than 50% of the population is Hispanic, Basque region is Spain and in France should gain its’ autonomy and the Serbs should be left to be driven out and slaughtered by the Albanians in Kosovo as a result of the Kosovo independence (a repeat of the 2004 riots in the region). Maybe Chicago should declare independence and be annexed to Poland too.

Your logic is somewhat suspect (along with your intelligence). For a brief period, Texas WAS an independent country (the Republic of Texas). They chose to become one of many states in The United States. They were not forced. As a matter of fact, inhabitants of the area fought to win independence from Mexico and THEN chose to join the U.S. The heavy hispanic population mostly came to reap the benefits of living in the State of Texas (not to mention many who moved on to other states).
Your tortured logic concerning Chicago shows that you have no concept of the "Melting Pot" which has blended many immigrant cultures into a coherent entity called American Citizens.
Don't try to impress us with your sarcasm. Most people outgrew such nonsense at an early age.

[Jampa]

Ukraine remembers famine horror
By Laura Sheeter
BBC News, Kiev

The horrors Ekaterina saw live with her still.

"We didn't have any funerals - whole families died," she tells me.

"Of our neighbours I remember all the Solveiki family died, all of the Kapshuks, all the Rahachenkos too - and the Yeremo family - three of them, still alive, were thrown into the mass grave."

Ekaterina, her mother and brother, survived by eating tree bark, roots and whatever they could find - but she says starvation drove others to terrible deeds.

"One day mother said to us,'children, you can't take your usual shortcut through the village anymore because the grandpa in the house nearby killed his grandson and ate him - and now he's been killed by his son...

And don't go near the priest's house either - because the neighbours there have killed and eaten their children.'"

The famine was part of Stalin's plan to crush peasant resistance
Though some, like Ekaterina, can never forget what happened, many Ukrainians had never heard of the famine until the country's independence - such was the secrecy about it during Soviet times.

But every year since independence, events to commemorate the famine get larger, and momentum is growing behind a campaign to raise international awareness of what happened.

For entire article see:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7111296.stm

[Jampa]

Ukraine Marks Famine Anniversary Amid Denials
Saturday, November 24, 2007

Distortions, Denials

Moscow, unappeased, has accused Kyiv of "unilaterally distorting history" with its account of the famine. But Foreign Ministry spokesman Andriy Deschitsya said this week that Kyiv will not waver from its position, and that it is Moscow, not Kyiv, that requires a history lesson.

A monument to victims of political repressions in Donetsk (AFP) "Exchanging statements back and forth is absolutely tactless; we only humiliate ourselves by doing so," he said. "The question of acknowledging the Holodomor in Ukraine as genocide is not on the agenda; we've already acknowledged it. I'd like to give our Russian colleagues some friendly advice: read history books."

In their fight to raise the issue of the Holodomor to prominence, Ukrainian activists are continuing a separate battle as well -- attempting to strip a Western journalist of a high-profile award he won for coverage of Ukraine in 1932, which made no mention of the famine.

"The New York Times" correspondent Walter Duranty won a Pulitzer Prize for his accounts of life in the Soviet Union during the early 1930s -- coverage that included reporting from Ukraine at the start of the famine.

Ivan Lozovy, a Ukrainian-based political analyst, organized a march in central Kyiv on November 21 to call for Duranty's Pulitzer to be revoked. The Pulitzer committee has ruled it will not revoke the prize, arguing it was awarded for pieces not directly related to the famine.

Lozovy and others say Duranty, who openly admired Stalin, helped cover up and perhaps deepen the effects of the Great Famine by failing to report on it. Lozovy says he hopes his campaign will highlight the role that Westerners like Duranty played in allowing the famine to continue unchecked.

"It would be historical justice," he said. "What interests me in this case is to make sure that Duranty is never forgotten, even if the prize is never revoked. Duranty is symbolic of how the West ignored this issue and Ukraine itself for many years, including after independence, until the Orange Revolution. This is a much wider and more important issue than just a prize given away 75 years ago."

For entire article see:

http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2007/11/...

[Jampa]

Today, Ukraine mourns the millions who died in a man-made famine that struck 75 years ago
Nov 25, 2007 04:30 AM
MITCH POTTER
EUROPE BUREAU

"Famine awareness soared four years ago in an international campaign, led by Canadian researcher Lubomyr Luciuk, demanding the posthumous revocation of the 1933 Pulitzer Prize to Walter Duranty, whose work as Moscow correspondent for The New York Times is widely acknowledged today as Soviet apologia.

The Pulitzer committee eventually declined to revoke the award, but even The Times today acknowledges Duranty's reportage as deeply discredited."

For entire article see:
http://www.thestar.com/News/article/279660

[Jampa]

Gareth Jones should have won the Pulitzer Prize for reports on the Russian Bolshevik Terror-Famine [Holodomor] of 1932-1933.
Instead the award went to Walter Duranty, who according to Malcolm Muggeridge, was the "biggest liar" he had ever met, and Stalin's most loyal stooge.

See most fascinating photos of entries in Gareth Jones Diary:

http://www.garethjones.org/Canada_2006_web_fi...

http://www.garethjones.org/