Beijing beating Moscow in Russian regional investment

There are 20 comments on the Feb 11, 2011, Russia Beyond the Headlines story titled Beijing beating Moscow in Russian regional investment. In it, Russia Beyond the Headlines reports that:

Some Far Easter states find China a better source of income than the Russian state budget.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Russia Beyond the Headlines.

First Prev
of 2
Next Last

“Trust no one in politics.”

Since: Apr 08

Pompano Beach, FL

#1 Feb 11, 2011
If this is true it certainly sounds like a bad idea.

If the Chinese wish to invest in the Russian Federation fine... to concentrate that investment in Russia's Asia/Pacific region... seems to be asking for trouble later on.
Lukashenko is Dr Phil

Tampere, Finland

#2 Feb 12, 2011
uther pendragon wrote:
If this is true it certainly sounds like a bad idea.
If the Chinese wish to invest in the Russian Federation fine... to concentrate that investment in Russia's Asia/Pacific region... seems to be asking for trouble later on.
Don"t you understand what you read dumb peasant goat shagger? It says russian siberians prefer their asian brothers over Russia any time.

After the way these "siberian separatists" sacrifice their people in WW2 Moscow has no say in this.

Besides I doubt your average muscovite could take on the inhabitants of Sakhalin.

But why China? Surely they know China is about as oppresive and backward as Russia is.

“Trust no one in politics.”

Since: Apr 08

Pompano Beach, FL

#3 Feb 12, 2011
Lukashenko is Dr Phil wrote:
<quoted text>
Don"t you understand what you read dumb peasant goat shagger? It says russian siberians prefer their asian brothers over Russia any time.
After the way these "siberian separatists" sacrifice their people in WW2 Moscow has no say in this.
Besides I doubt your average muscovite could take on the inhabitants of Sakhalin.
But why China? Surely they know China is about as oppresive and backward as Russia is.
What an illiterate Fin-nazi. What the article says is that the Russian government is not investing enough in that region. Probably because European Russia is considered the higher priority in Moskva. Beijing however is investing there as it is closer to the Chinese border.

It says nothing of preferences... it is about who is actually sending in the capital.

“Pink Ponies of Justice”

Since: Sep 07

Moscow, Russia

#4 Feb 12, 2011
China invest everywhere in the world. They are buying EU foreign debts, natural resources in Africa and America and so on.

“Trust no one in politics.”

Since: Apr 08

Pompano Beach, FL

#5 Feb 12, 2011
coolncrazy wrote:
China invest everywhere in the world. They are buying EU foreign debts, natural resources in Africa and America and so on.
Not to mention Washington's borrowing from Beijing simply to make interest payments on the national debt. If they decided to simply stop making such loans...
Lukashenko is Dr Phil

Tampere, Finland

#6 Feb 12, 2011
uther pendragon wrote:
<quoted text>
What an illiterate Fin-nazi. What the article says is that the Russian government is not investing enough in that region. Probably because European Russia is considered the higher priority in Moskva. Beijing however is investing there as it is closer to the Chinese border.
It says nothing of preferences... it is about who is actually sending in the capital.
And why do you think they are investing even in useless places like Chukotka? Come on serb turd. You are not that stupid, are you.

How ever I don"t believe China has enough money to buy their loyalty. People like Abramovich oviously made sure of that.

“Hope for Best- Expect Worst”

Since: Jan 07

Somewhere in Colorado

#7 Feb 12, 2011
uther pendragon wrote:
If this is true it certainly sounds like a bad idea.
If the Chinese wish to invest in the Russian Federation fine... to concentrate that investment in Russia's Asia/Pacific region... seems to be asking for trouble later on.
I agree. It is time for the Kremlin to say, No more. Go home China and pass the laws to stop any more chinese interference in Russian business. All it takes is some laws and the chinese can pull out and play in their own country.

China, and its money and theft is not needed in Russia in the far east or anywhere.

“Hope for Best- Expect Worst”

Since: Jan 07

Somewhere in Colorado

#8 Feb 12, 2011
uther pendragon wrote:
<quoted text>
What an illiterate Fin-nazi. What the article says is that the Russian government is not investing enough in that region. Probably because European Russia is considered the higher priority in Moskva. Beijing however is investing there as it is closer to the Chinese border.
It says nothing of preferences... it is about who is actually sending in the capital.
Precisely Uther. China has tons of money and it is sticking its nose where it doesn't belong. It is time for the Russian government to pass those laws and stop the Chinese theft.

The teenage finn, the Nazi=loving dolt is on Topix only to make negative comments and to interject the bestial Germans whenever he can. Obviously he doesn't read the articles and just makes assumptions.

“Hope for Best- Expect Worst”

Since: Jan 07

Somewhere in Colorado

#9 Feb 12, 2011
coolncrazy wrote:
China invest everywhere in the world. They are buying EU foreign debts, natural resources in Africa and America and so on.
Isn't it interesting how the world has allowed their legislators to do what the rich and the rich corporations want to the end that they are handing over to CHINA, A COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT, all the tools and money they need to become a superpower.

At least Russia did it on their own with their own smart people and with their only money, tighly squeezed by the west who wouldn't so much as allow a computer through to Russia.

I guess the west will pay soon enough if china calls in the debts and loans. And the USA is at the top of the list.

“Hope for Best- Expect Worst”

Since: Jan 07

Somewhere in Colorado

#10 Feb 12, 2011
Well, that's why the people of Russia need a smart man like Vladimir Putin to lead Russia, instead of listening to those nitpicking Russia's democracy. What good is democracy if foreign powers take over important resources. Better to Save Russia for Russians and to keep a close eye on too many investments or owners of Russian territory.
That's why smart and forward thinking leaders like PUtin need to run for office, not the namby pamby butt-kissers of the west, who doesn't give a damn about Russia or Eastern Europe.

“Hope for Best- Expect Worst”

Since: Jan 07

Somewhere in Colorado

#11 Feb 12, 2011
Lukashenko is Dr Phil wrote:
<quoted text>
Don"t you understand what you read dumb peasant goat shagger? It says russian siberians prefer their asian brothers over Russia any time.
After the way these "siberian separatists" sacrifice their people in WW2 Moscow has no say in this.
Besides I doubt your average muscovite could take on the inhabitants of Sakhalin.
But why China? Surely they know China is about as oppresive and backward as Russia is.
You didn't understand a word of the article. All you are doing is spewing your biased, hate-filled Russophobia and nazi crappola.
The greed of the west to get rich gave China the ability to have a lot of money to spend, while taking jobs away from their own citizens. Now a lot of western economies are in trouble and owing a lot of money to China, and the world will have learned about their hypocrisy of trying to blame Russia for everything, including non=existent Communist government, while they have been supporting a RAGINLY COMMUNIST GOVERNMENT IN CHINA. That's what they get for pushing their popularity contest instead of thinking clearly. LOL!!!!
Stefanya

Absecon, NJ

#12 Feb 12, 2011
Greed is natural. I have only one chicken, and my neighbor had two. Now my neighbor has one, I have one, and I ate one.
ronan

Mitcham, UK

#13 Feb 12, 2011
Stefanya wrote:
<quoted text>
China has tons of money and it is sticking its nose where it doesn't belong.
That must surely remind you how the US used to operate when at the peak of their power.

I suppose that becoming the next superpower, China follows the same model. There will be more to come.
boondock saint

United States

#14 Feb 12, 2011
ronan wrote:
<quoted text>
That must surely remind you how the US used to operate when at the peak of their power.
I suppose that becoming the next superpower, China follows the same model. There will be more to come.
Let me make a correction for you: "That must surely remind you how the US and UK used to operate when at the peak of their power"
ronan

Mitcham, UK

#15 Feb 12, 2011
boondock saint wrote:
<quoted text>Let me make a correction for you: "That must surely remind you how the US and UK used to operate when at the peak of their power"
Quite correct!!

Point taken...

Britain as a superpower was so long ago ...
Lukashenko is Dr Phil

Tampere, Finland

#16 Feb 12, 2011
Russian siberians will have to learn to eat dogs and cats instead of each other in the near future.
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE

Maple Ridge, Canada

#17 Feb 12, 2011
boondock saint wrote:
<quoted text>Let me make a correction for you: "That must surely remind you how the US and UK used to operate when at the peak of their power"
lol boondock so you are Slav... why where you ashamed to say it in the past?
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE

Maple Ridge, Canada

#18 Feb 12, 2011
Triads tighten grip on Russia's far east
By Bertil Lintner

As Chinese Triads in Vladivostok take over the reins of organised crime from Russian groups, Bertil Lintner examines the changing face of Russia's far east.

Organised crime has always been a problem in Vladivostok and Russia's far east, but the last few years have seen a dramatic increase in the number of Chinese Triad groups operating in the region.

Last year alone, an estimated US$200m was transferred from China to the Russian far east--mostly through the Chinese underground banking system (see box: underground banks)--and invested in casinos, hotels, restaurants, and hostess bars. Large amounts have also been invested in illegal logging and fishing deals, with timber and fish being smuggled to China, Japan and South Korea; costing the government millions of roubles every year in lost revenue.

Russia's Minister for Internal Affairs, Boris Gryzlov, has admitted that the far eastern region has the worst per-person crime rate in the country. However, the streets of Vladivostok appear to be safer and much more orderly today than they were a decade ago, when they were under the control of local crime bosses. Then, smuggling rackets, gambling dens and prostitution rings were rife, and kidnappings, drive-by shootings and car bombings were regular occurrences.

The difference now is that most of the old, flamboyant Russian 'godfathers' are gone--and the Chinese Triads have arrived. They are better organised, more discreet, and they view civil disorder as a threat to their criminal enterprises. According to Vitaly Nomokonov, director of the Centre for the Study of Organised Crime at the Far Eastern State University's Law Institute in Vladivostok, the level of crime carried out by these groups has mushroomed.

New order
Chinese gangs control many of the casinos in the region (there are more than a dozen gaming establishments in the Vladivostok area), many Chinese restaurants, and even some Russian hotels and eateries. Many small-time Russian gangsters now work for the Chinese syndicates, either as contacts for local business deals or as security guards at the casinos. The nature of the relationship between local Russian criminals and the Chinese crime bosses is not clear, but it seems that the Chinese are far better organised, and therefore have the upper hand.

The only area which the Chinese do not dominate is the local drug trade, which is still in the hands of Tajik, Kazakh, Chechen and other Central Asian criminals, who bring in heroin from Afghanistan. According to the local police, only ephedrine and small quantities of Southeast Asian heroin are smuggled in from China and North Korea. On two occasions--in 1994 and 1999--North Korean intelligence agents and government officials were caught trying to smuggle Southeast Asian heroin and opium into the Vladivostok area.

Many of the leaders of the indigenous Russian organised crime groups that previously dominated the region have been killed in turf wars, while others have gone out of business or died in mysterious circumstances. The last of the city's big Russian crime bosses, Evgeny Petrovich Vasin, nicknamed "Dzhem" ("Jam") died of a heart attack in October 2001. Another Russian had a heart attack in an aircraft when he was flying to Vladivostok to attend Vasins funeral.

Somewhat ironically, says Nomokonov, it was Vasin who first brought mainland Chinese Triads to Vladivostok to counter competitors from European Russia and Central Asia, who had flocked to the area after the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991. In the mid-1990s, Vasin paid several visits to Shenyang in Chinas northeastern Liaoning province. His first partner in crime, who later rose to become the main organised crime figure in Vladivostok, was a Chinese known as "Lao Da," or "Elder Brother". Lao Da already controlled a large part of Vasin's businesses and after his death, he is believed to have discreetly taken over what remained.
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE

Maple Ridge, Canada

#19 Feb 12, 2011
Ethnic tension

Large-scale Chinese migration to the Russian far east has made it easier for the Triads to prosper in the region. As a result of Stalins ethnic purges in the 1930s, Vladivostok--once a predominantly Chinese city-- was until recently the only major port city in the Pacific Rim without a Chinese community. Now, Chinese merchants from across the border sell clothes, tools, toys, watches and other cheap consumer goods in a sprawling new market in one of the city's eastern suburbs.

The new immigrants live scattered in the suburbs--or they are concentrated in other far eastern towns such as Ussurijsk and Blagoveshchensk and in the smaller township of Pogranichnyi, where they outnumber the European population.

many choose--or are forced--to work for ethnic Chinese groups linked to the Triads. Local sources in Vladivostok assert that every stall owner in the city's Chinese market has to pay protection money to the gangs. The gangs also arrange for bribes to be paid to some local officials to make sure the vendors are not sent home, as many of them do not have visas.

The problem of cross-border crime and illegal migration was deemed important enough to be highlighted in a joint declaration by Russian president Vladimir Putin and his Chinese counterpart Hu Jintao, that was signed on 27 May. Russia and China agreed to create a joint working group to curb the uncontrolled movement of people across the common border.

The rise in Chinese organised crime and illegal migration have fuelled racist attitudes towards all Chinese, even ordinary businessmen who are actually victimised by the Triads through their protection rackets. Some sources, however, argue that the prevailing perception that Chinese migrants are coming like a 'tidal wave' is grossly exaggerated. In a paper presented to the San Diego State University in January 2001, Russian academic Mikhail Alexseev emphasised that Chinese migration to the Russian far east is not remotely similar to the Chinese presence in New York, San Francisco, or even Moscow.

But threat perceptions are important for local attitudes. After all, there are some 100 million people in Chinas northeastern region, while the population of Russia's far eastern Federal District--an area two-thirds of the size of the USA--is not more than seven million. Even if the number of newly arrived migrants from China did not exceed 200,000, or a mere 3% of the total population--a figure often mentioned in the local press--many locals see it as a trend, and believe that in another decade or two, the numbers could be much higher.

Russia's far east may be too poor to attract huge numbers of migrant workers, who are better off at home in China. But there is plenty of land, and thousands of Chinese farmers have settled in the border areas, where they grow vegetables and other crops.

More importantly, business opportunities abound, especially in the booming underground economy. Although it may be a trickle rather than a flood, Nomokonov called the movement of people across the border "unstoppable" and said that the authorities must make sure is does not "damage Russia's national interests".

How well connected in high places are the Triads is difficult to determine, but enforcing the law, and curbing corruption within the police and local government, has never been easy in this remote corner of Russia. Gryzlov noted that out of 151 bribery cases filed in 2001 and 2002, only 20 made it to court--and, in the end, only one of the suspects received a prison sentence. Late last year, the police actually arrested Lao Da and about a dozen of his associates, but the case collapsed, and not one of them was brought to court.

The local police are tight-lipped about Lao Da and are even unwilling to discuss his existence--which goes a long way to show how influential he has become, and how much "Russia's national interests" have been undermined by the arrival of Chinese organised crime in the Far East.
MrOwl1939

Summerfield, NC

#20 Feb 12, 2011
I am curious about some things and I am interested in receiving some real honest to goodness answers. As you have surmised I do not live in Russia nor do I have any ties or links with Russia and Russians other than being a resider of the same planet but I am curious. What is the reason for European Russia, the portion of Russians who live in European Russia, what is the reason for the, I perceive, the dishonour of losing control of Asian Russia, places such as Vladivostok and places east of the Urals? I am not trying to be offensive but I am desiring to learn. What common bonds do Muscovites and residents of Russia's far east have? For instance the next biggest country being Canada, people living in Nova Scotia in the east of Canada have many common bonds with the people living in British Columbia on the Pacific. I have noticed a lot of hard feelings between Russians and surrounding peoples like Finns, Poles, Ukrainians whereas my people, the Scots, get along with the English, Welsh and Irish rather well. The Americans and Canadians for the most part get along like family. San Francisco has a huge Chinese population and they all get along well. Chicago has huge numbers of Italians and Polish in the city and they live well together. In Cleveland I have seen Germans and Poles live among each other peacefully. What is the problem with the Chinese in Vladivostok? Is there a fear of eventual annexation of the far eastern part of Russia to China? Now I know and realise a lot of Finns, Germans, Ukrainians and other nationalities and ethnicities might comment on this and I will sift through it for the truth but I would like to hear from some Russians on the subject. I want to learn.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 2
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Khabarovsk, Russia Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Central Bank to establish Far Eastern Main Branch Jan '15 Anemon259 1
News Independent Journalist Escapes Russia, Seeks As... Nov '14 the endless game 3
News Meet Vladimir Putin, Russia's Premier Car Teste... Nov '14 PUTIN is a JOKE 1
News Russian newspaper editor fined for interview wi... (Feb '14) Sep '14 Anemon259 9
News Khabarovsk gay rights activist Alexander Yermos... (May '14) May '14 Pesky army 1
News Japan's odd pro-Western 'nationalism' (Feb '14) Feb '14 Ainu 1
Family of pyatibrat Yuri nikolayevich (Feb '14) Feb '14 Hiedi 1
More from around the web