Romania: Lawmakers vote to impeach president

Jul 6, 2012 Full story: Boston.com 70

Romanian lawmakers impeached President Traian Basescu in an overwhelming vote Friday, paving the way for a national referendum that could see the divisive and increasingly unpopular leader ousted from the powerful position he's held for eight years.

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Since: May 11

Milan, Italy

#65 Aug 1, 2012
TheRealMihai wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, Petru, are you for real??? Scanteia??? LOOOOOOOOOOL
You know it is not anymore this way. It is a tabloid, but it has quite many and fresh info and sometimes, they do some good analysis.
I read often this newspaper, too: http://www.capital.ro/index.html
And many others. such as this one: http://moneymagazine.money.ro/ (even if with a bit oldish news, but often good and interesting articles).
TheRealMihai wrote:
<quoted text>"You" - meaning Basescu - didn't win ANYTHING!!!
The score is about 9 to 1. The Court hasn't decided anything yet. The turnout might be just ok for impeachment, as there are only about 16m voters instead of 18m, according to INS based on the recent census and according to CNAS. Normally, the Court should consider the data and recommend impeachment.
Stop being such a propagandist!:)) Really. I do not wish to bring on this forum, the low IQ political dispute there. Like that, I could gather many other stupidities from the other side, but I do not wish to.
TheRealMihai wrote:
<quoted text>However, if Basescu is allowed to get back to Cotroceni, it is said they're cooking an alliance to rebuild the old FSN, and leave the liberals out.
Which is the worst scenario of them all!!! You shouldn't celebrate.
And what would be this new alliance name? The Alliance of Thieves and Corrupts? Well ok, let them do it, thus the Romanians will spot them easier and we'll get rid of them quicker. I really want them to do it. I can barely wait to see them ousted once for all from the politics. But do not worry/celebrate, they will not be that dumb.
TheRealMihai wrote:
<quoted text>
And, please, stop reading that moronic paper. There are serious newspapers in Romania. or at least there is one:
http://www.jurnalul.ro/observator/o-dubla-inf...
Sorry to those who don't speak Romanian. ;)
I am curious which article in Deutsche Welle these people invoke. It is not looking like this one:
http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,16130587,00.ht...

But it looks very much to this one: http://www.dw.de/dw/article/0,,16130856,00.ht...
But then Mihai, read it by yourself, the original and see how much "Jurnalul" modified its sense. It seems Voiculescu is choosing people in his company, following his own "style". I unfortunately had also to deal with this man, when being in Romania. Actually, through my parents, thus I am not recommending any communication with such a person.
Victor

Las Vegas, NV

#66 Aug 1, 2012
Reminder Gentlemen: This was not a vote for Presidency, regardless of the 8-2, or 9 to 1 vote.

This was to judge if a president should be recalled. And romanians voted not to vote, based on Ponta, and the USL, hijacking government. The vote speaks for itself. It should be respected.

Their is disillusionment, under the circumstances to get a loan, your president and parliament had to make decisions to qualify for a loan. President did not do this alone, everybody in your country participated, by either paying higher VAT, or paying taxes. Whether their retirement check got cut, or their pay got cut. Everybody participated to qualify for this help.

If you never went down that road to qualify, your country would still be as it is, and probably more in debt, because those changes stopped the never ending downward spiral, that have brought you to this day, still not making any headway, or progress.

But this loan, for all the sacrifices that have been done, is suppose to be your savior. I don't know how that can translate for Romania, other than use it bring more companies to romania, to offer your people work, and jobs, with good pay.
This is possible, but still hard, because their is going to be gridlock at your parliament, and they think they can control everything, espeically based on this last coup. They, the USL, will have to wait til November to see, if you still believe in them, that is your chance to make changes.

I hope Basescu, will make some changes to help your country now, so that he has a chance to influence the Parliament, if loses more seats, than your country will be waiting until 2014 presidential election to oust him. I hope he works with USL, to help your country when IMF finally arrives. It serves him no purpose to not work with them.

Yes your country spoke volumes. They did not want USL, they chose one sailorman, rather than a pack of henchmen. Respect your people vote. November is your chance to change this outlook again. You have not lost, you have not gained with this previous voter recall vote. These months, are the end game for either group.

Time will tell?

victor, the american

Since: Apr 12

Bucharest, Romania

#67 Aug 1, 2012
Victor, for Christ's sake!!!!!
In Romania the president is BS!!!!!!!!!! He's just a mediator!!!
Stop being such a moron!

Petru, Adevarul has an Editor in Chief named Cartianu. I think you know this funny story...
When Paulo Coelho came to Bucharest to promote one of his then recent books, Cartianu was there. He went on to get an autograph, saying: "Je m'apelle Gregoire et je suis aussi ecrivain." I mean - WTF?:))))))))

On topic: the Court has postponed its decision.
Piperasuckbigtim e

Romania

#69 Aug 1, 2012
@Mihaie Nici nu-mi dau sama de ce te consumi nene!? Si, n-ar fi rau sa vb-iti in limba nostra aci, asa ca sa nu va/ne facem de cacat pentru niste politicieni de cacat.
Victor

Las Vegas, NV

#70 Aug 1, 2012
Ok, Mihai, you may think that any history or story may persuade me or the general public?

Sorry, not persuaded!

1) you cannot ignore that paying high retirements to people who worked a few years after 1989, because they were able to use their influence to secure those position, and any retirement payments made after that exceed more than the national average pay, which I assume to be around 400 euro deserve it, while everyone else prior 1989 who was working for the government, that is everyone, make less than 100 euro, is fair. There is an extreme imbalance of money here. So, why does everyone working today have to pay for those extreme payments, when cost of living is not that high in your country, while those few that were able to retire after 1989, take advantage?

Answer: Corruption! or corrupt!

The poor in your country, are the forgotten ones, who suffer. The future has to address this once and for all.

I don't know if Basescu can do this, but I for sure don't feel that from the USL...

You romanians need to use the IMF money to give hope to your country, and take care of your elderly, and cut those high retirement payments immediately.

We in the us, are facing the same. government cannot keep up with this expectation to pay retirements that are expensive. Our governments are going into bankruptcy, and they are trying to reverse this here in the United States. And I hope we succeed. You guys, need it more than us, because I can assure you the majority of your money is going to pay these people, while everyone else suffers. Change this, and you will cure the overall mass.

I have never been cross with the people, they need help, and I wish this for your country. Can you relate?

Vic, the american

Since: May 11

Italy

#71 Aug 2, 2012
Sorry, both you, Victor and Mihai are wrong.

Victor, there are no more low retirements as you mentioned. Most of them were equalised. Well, depends on what the person did also, before or after 1989. If they were agricultors, then ok, there is not much for them, as they also did not pay much taxes at their lives... Of course, it is sad, but the problem is the economic issues of Romania.
And this issue is one simple fact: each time someone (any given political party, you name it) comes into power, they change:
- all local and usually independent structures and people in the public domain with their people and with their concepts (maybe done somewhere else too, even in the US)- so, maybe OK
- WORST of the WORST: they change laws about taxing, usually on imported products, so that businessmen related to the respective party(ies)- again, you name it/them - can achieve very large profits, without paying much or nothing to the state, in terms of taxes. This is highly illegal in any country, nevertheless, it is common practice in Romania.

Do you think there is an ideological dispute among the parties there now? No, it is not. This is just for the public, who showed now they were not interested anymore and they disliked this "show". The dispute is who is in power, so that the businessmen related to those parties can achieve higher profits, shared then, partly with those parties members and those parties' budgets, too.

Since: May 11

Milan, Italy

#72 Aug 2, 2012
Moreover, nothing has been ever done since 1989 on, to stimulate the local consumption of locally produced goods. On the contrary...

Then, guys, what do you expect? Do you think we are Norway, which can afford such a luxury, with a 4 millions population, a larger surface and with many oil reserves and production?

Poland is the only one in Eastern Europe, which managed to go out of this situation. And they did that exactly stimulating the local production for the local consumption. Moreover, they were so successful in doing this, as many others (Hungary, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, Czechia, Bulgaria) import many goods from Poland today.

We cannot simply continue being a market for others' products, based on the stimulation of huge profits for importer businessmen related to the ruling parties at a given moment of time. This leads to situations worse than Greece has today...
TheRealMagyar

Balatonendréd, Hungary

#73 Aug 2, 2012
Romanian PM claims “outrage” over Hungarian counterpart’s comments on impeachment referendum.

Romanian Prime Minister Victor Ponta expressed “outrage” on Sunday over what he called his Hungarian counterpart’s intervention in the country’s internal politics by telling ethnic kin in Romania to stay away from the polls in a recall referendum.

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban encouraged citizens of Romania to make the “right” decision in a referendum to recall the country’s president in remarks at a summer university for Hungarians in Baile Tusnad (Tusnadfurdo), Romania, on Saturday.

“I wish for Romanians, and Hungarians living here too, to take the right decision, such as by not taking one at all,” he said.

Romanians voted on Sunday to recall impeached President Traian Basescu, a referendum that failed due to an inadequate turnout.

Speaking to journalists after casting a ballot in the referendum, Ponta said he felt it was his responsibility as prime minister to warn Orban that he had intervened in Romania’s internal politics.

A count of voters from around 5pm showed turnout was lowest in Harghita and Covasna counties, at 6.85 percent and 12.39 percent, respectively. Both counties have relatively high concentrations of ethnic Hungarians.

http://www.politics.hu/20120730/romanian-pm-c...
Victor

Las Vegas, NV

#74 Aug 2, 2012
Petru, thanks for setting me straight. You are right so much, I agree with you regarding the internal production, rather than import.

I believe romania needs to move more to exporting.

maybe some of those companies that can be established with the help of IMF money, can help produce exports for your country. Its hard to create this infrastructure, but its so needed.

thanks again Petru, great information.

Since: May 11

Milan, Italy

#75 Aug 3, 2012
Victor wrote:
Petru, thanks for setting me straight. You are right so much, I agree with you regarding the internal production, rather than import.
I believe romania needs to move more to exporting.
maybe some of those companies that can be established with the help of IMF money, can help produce exports for your country. Its hard to create this infrastructure, but its so needed.
thanks again Petru, great information.
Victor, most of the governments used the IMF money to keep the social security system standing. With an aging population, a migration of quite a number of individuals and a strongly decreasing birth rate, one cannot handle the social security system anymore...

So, what you say sounds easy, but it is not possible, with the given environment. An idea would be to stop the brain drain. Yes, but how? I think, thus only my personal opinion, is that the governments should give a more professional impression, by their coherent and concise actions. Up till now, I keep seeing governments who are either interested on cheap political gains, at the pressure of their related businessmen (see the current government, sometimes also Boc's governments and many previous ones), either governments interested ONLY on boosting the profits of their related businessmen (Boc's first one, Nastase's governments...).

Once more, it sounds so easy what you say, but it hardly achievable in this context.
I presume, given all this, we will keep progressing overall, as we have done since 1989, slowly, but we will never be a performant country. Maybe Poland, in Eastern Europe will make a difference. Also perhaps Estonia and perhaps the Czech Republic. The rest will keep lingering and will ask themselves thus, to get used by the performant countries.
But then... we should not complain about our fate.

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