What Divides Catholics and Protestants?

[Nijoni]

Allen Richards wrote:

<quoted text>
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I agree. I should have made it clear that I was talking about traditional Jews not Messianic Jews.

cool
:)

[Brother Lee Love]

Allen Richards wrote:

`

You, my friend, are...

~sigh~

I think it's best I take heed to the wise saying at Proverbs 26:4 now.

May the shalowm of our 'Elohiym bless you, Mr. Allen Richards.

[barry]

Brother Lee Love wrote:

<quoted text>What is it you're not understanding?
Of course, when we combine every member and every congregation, it's most understandable and reasonable to consider all "one" rather than individual members and congregations. The fact of the matter is, though, that the Body, being "one," is still a sum of the many members. Isn't it the same with our families?
In my family alone, there's myself, my wife, and our eleven children. Thirteen of us altogether, but one family, right?
<quoted text>The organization isn't figurative. The idea that we call two-or-more "one" is figurative.
<quoted text>What I said was, "It's foolish for you to declare that neither the Church, or 'God,' are figurative, as if I've suggested such a foolish thing!"
My point was, I never even insinuated such a foolish thing. "God" is not figurative. The Church is not figurative. What's figurative is Father and our anointed Savior being "one." They're actually two, but indivisible in all things. What's figurative is the Church being "one." The Church is actually many members, but indivisible in all things.

you are tap dancing. the point is simple. "heis" is a quantitative word meaning "one" and quantity of one. it has nothing to do with being in agreement or unity. so when "these three are one" it is not talking about agreement but the fact that they are one witness or one God. if the word "heis" is employed by it's self, the concentration of the context should be on the "one" thing that the context is talking about.
i am a member of one church that church is singular but certainly not always in agreement.

congratulations on the eleven. hope all is well.

[barry]

Brother Lee Love wrote:

<quoted text>Um...I dunno. Perhaps, Matthew 28:19? "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit." Matthew 28:19 is, most likely, the answer to your question considering that the terminology equates with Cyprian's comment. 1John 5:7 uses "Word" and not "Son."
<quoted text>Okay! Fine! 1John 5:7 has always had "the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one" in the text!
I knew you were going to continue on with this minor inconvenience rather than focus on my initial and more important question. For your knowledge and comfort of mind, I accept "the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these three are one" in the text. Anyway, to get back to my initial question...
Does 1John 5:7 prove the existence of a so-called "trinity?"

#1 John is the only author to refer to Christ as the "Word" so the attempt to distract with Mathew 28:19 is really just that; a distraction.
#2 yes, it supports the evidence that is found beginning in Genesis 1.

[barry]

Brother Lee Love wrote:

<quoted text>Actually, it's written...
First...
Exodus 12:49
One law shall be to him that is homeborn, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among you.
Then, later...
Exodus 20:8-11
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle..
...nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
And sooner than later...
Isaiah 66:23
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
Our anointed Savior fulfilled the precepts of the seventh-day sabbath, but not the sabbath itself, and not for Israel exclusively.
<quoted text>I don't challenge the title "Christian," nor anyone's use of the title. I only declare that I prefer another title that bears the same root and produces the same fruit.
I call our anointed Savior as such because that's what he is. He was, indeed, anointed to be our Savior.

when in rome do as the romans do.

Exodus 31:13
Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.

Exodus 31:14
Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Exodus 31:15
Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

Exodus 31:16
Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

Nehemiah 13
16 There dwelt men of Tyre also therein, which brought fish, and all manner of ware, and sold on the sabbath unto the children of Judah, and in Jerusalem.

17 Then I contended with the nobles of Judah, and said unto them, What evil thing is this that ye do, and profane the sabbath day?

18 Did not your fathers thus, and did not our God bring all this evil upon us, and upon this city? yet ye bring more wrath upon Israel by profaning the sabbath.

19 And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark before the sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and some of my servants set I at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day.

God didn't speak to the gentile merchants. he was not angry with the merchants. he dealt with his people.
the sabbath was for the Jews. a sign of a perpetuel covenant between him and them.

[barry]

TJ Monk wrote:

<quoted text>
I have pork ribs on the grill.......any encyclopedia will tell you the origions of trinity, hellfire and immortality of the soul. Gen. 1:21,24....Animals are souls as well, just as humans.........How could a loving God burn an imperfect person forever?? That is a pagan teaching and not one Jesus ever preached about.

really?
Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Mark 9:43
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:45
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Mark 9:47
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Revelation 20:12-14
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

perhaps you need a new Bible. your's apparently is missing theses words of Jesus.

[Oxbow]

In the late 1300s John Wycilf translated the scriptures from the Latin. About 44 years after his death, the Catholic institution dug up his bones and burned them calling him an arch-heretick.

In the 1500's William Tyndale sought to translate the Bible into the language of the common people, English. He could not gain approval from the Catholic institution, so he worked as an outlaw on the run in Europe, translating the Bible. He was eventually captured, condemned and executed in 1536.

It is because of people like these men, Tyndale and Wycliffe, that we have the scriptures today. If the Catholic religion had its way, we'd still be in ignorance about the Bible and enslaved to the pope.

Time fails me here to tell of other marytrs like John Hus, John Rogers, etc. who were killed by popish persons. Guy Fawkes and other papists (followers of the pope) tried to kill King James VI & I (the king who commanded the translation of the Authorised Version of the Bible (also known as the Authorized King James Version), published in 1611) and the whole British parliament, in the Gunpowder Plot of 1605. King James identified Rome as the seat of the antichrist in his, "Premonition [warning] to All Most Mightie Monarches."

[Nijoni]

Oxbow wrote:

In the late 1300s John Wycilf translated the scriptures from the Latin. About 44 years after his death, the Catholic institution dug up his bones and burned them calling him an arch-heretick.
In the 1500's William Tyndale sought to translate the Bible into the language of the common people, English. He could not gain approval from the Catholic institution, so he worked as an outlaw on the run in Europe, translating the Bible. He was eventually captured, condemned and executed in 1536.
It is because of people like these men, Tyndale and Wycliffe, that we have the scriptures today. If the Catholic religion had its way, we'd still be in ignorance about the Bible and enslaved to the pope.
Time fails me here to tell of other marytrs like John Hus, John Rogers, etc. who were killed by popish persons. Guy Fawkes and other papists (followers of the pope) tried to kill King James VI & I (the king who commanded the translation of the Authorised Version of the Bible (also known as the Authorized King James Version), published in 1611) and the whole British parliament, in the Gunpowder Plot of 1605. King James identified Rome as the seat of the antichrist in his, "Premonition [warning] to All Most Mightie Monarches."

Amen!!

[Jaimie]

The last tiem I seen God, he indicated Police and mIlitayr can be seen as "Lord" Mayor, Governor etc. SOmetimes you find bad ones or drunkin, search out another Lord if you need help.

Purgatory was no differnt then Human Service agency, housing, finance, job, food, clothes, financial restitution and cirminal prosecutions of wrong doing to you.

But he was running thru a terrain, out of the solar system he beleives, he was trying to access a beast in existence he did not yet meet. It had a giant worm like a Sea Urchin of some sort, but a dianasour body, weird thing, it was shy and did not like to be laughed at and would run after God and try to eat him.

So the next time the Catholic CHurch sent people to ask me about God in the 1970s St MArys of the LAke of Waunakee Bishops COve group. "Jaimie Have you talked to God lately?" "Yeah I actually just seen him, we ran and laughed and fell" "Jaimie this is important, how do you pray or see God" "I just think about him and where he may be and then I see" "So where was he?" "DEAD, he isnt mad, he was teasing it, it was a beast so he didnt have real hatred for it, he knew better, and so he then moved on" GOt stuck in a belly when he was tired thinking safe enough distance from the sluggish beast Nope it swallowed him whole while he slumbered several ayrds from him in the night. I told him to carry a knife, nobody listened to me, he could have cut himself out the belly.

[Jaimie]

A giant worm head like a sea urchin and a dinasour body

[barry]

Brother Lee Love wrote:

<quoted text>... I would also be wrong, then, for using the actual, literal translation "Passover" at Acts 12:4 and not "Easter," considering that the actual, literal translation of "pascha," which is the actual, literal Greek term found in the verse and the actual, literal Greek equivalent of the Hebrew "pecach," is "Passover" and not "Easter."
NOTE: I'm fully aware that many concordances have "Easter" as a proper translation for the term "pascha." I believe this is most erroneous, though, as it's factual that the Israelites never observed, by commandment, any feast called "Easter," and the Greek "pascha" is, indeed, the equivalent of the Hebrew "pecach."
...
~sigh~

so, you can be so sure. what is the greek phrase for "happy easter"? what is the spanish phrase for "happy easter"? how about the italian, french, dutch? they all use the same root word as the greek "pascha"
all these languages and they all translate easter the same way.
perhaps you should realize that the word pascha is really a chaldean word and may have a broader meaning than you wish to apply.
while the hebrew word for "passover" appears similar it may not even have any relationship to it.
the hebrew word for "pass over" as used in Exodus 12 is "pacach" which has an obvious relationship to "passover" in the hebrew which is "Pecach" always the feast.
however the Greek word for "pass over" is "parerchomal". it has no relationship to "pascha" which is translated "passover" or "easter".

so if this word "pascha" is really a chaldean/pagan word what do you think it could also mean?
the word it's self does not support your claim.
the universal use of the word does not support your claim.

now if you look at Acts 12, it says that peter was held during the days of the "unleavened bread" [Then were the days of unleavened bread, vs3] the Passover was the 14th day of the month and beginning with the 15th day to the 21st day [7 more days] was the feast of the unleavened bread. so the passover was already past. but easter, the pagan holiday or the celebration of the resurrection may not have already passed.
the words of the context do not support your claim.

now, why would herod wait for the passover to pass before he would execute peter? they had previously had no problem with executing Jesus on the passover. why would herod hold the passover as special? he was not a strict jew by any stretch of the imagination. but he could have held the pagan holiday as something special because ceasar did.
the context of the culture does not support your claim.

easter is the right translation as agreed by the 40 some translators of the KJ Bible who were certainly more gifted and learned in the languages than you or i and by those who went back and "corrected" mistakes that were found later.

[TJ Monk]

barry wrote:

<quoted text>really?
Luke 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
Mark 9:43
And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:45
And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mark 9:47
And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Revelation 20:12-14
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
perhaps you need a new Bible. your's apparently is missing theses words of Jesus.

FREAKSHOW....ECC. 9:5, 10 Dead cannot be tortured forever......Ps. 146:4...Ps. 31:17.......Ezk. 4:20....The dead are dead...look in a dictionary...dead is dead. Gehenna is a dump outside Jerusalem...it ONLY symbolizes complete death. A God who would burn people FOREVER....imperfect people YET....is worse than a serial killer today...God is the instigator of the INQUISITION????....CRUSADES??? ...Look at the history of your GOD!!!!!.....False religion teaches this crap from Babylon. It's paganism that Constantine combined into the dogma of crap. You Freakshows don't know God. Not even His name.....You Tools should change your handle on this site to MAN...no name, just MAN. The same thinking is what you so-called christians use in indentifying who God..WHICH ONE?....is. Falsehoods abound......Who do you serve?...Rev. 12:9.....2 Corinthians 4:4.......I DARE YOU TO READ THESE SCRIPTURES THAT YOU OMIT IN YOUR MISLED LIVES..........TJ

[Allen Richards]

TJ Monk wrote:

<quoted text>
FREAKSHOW....ECC. 9:5, 10 Dead cannot be tortured forever......Ps. 146:4...Ps. 31:17.......Ezk. 4:20....The dead are dead...look in a dictionary...dead is dead. Gehenna is a dump outside Jerusalem...it ONLY symbolizes complete death. A God who would burn people FOREVER....imperfect people YET....is worse than a serial killer today...God is the instigator of the INQUISITION????....CRUSADES??? ...Look at the history of your GOD!!!!!.....False religion teaches this crap from Babylon. It's paganism that Constantine combined into the dogma of crap. You Freakshows don't know God. Not even His name.....You Tools should change your handle on this site to MAN...no name, just MAN. The same thinking is what you so-called christians use in indentifying who God..WHICH ONE?....is. Falsehoods abound......Who do you serve?...Rev. 12:9.....2 Corinthians 4:4.......I DARE YOU TO READ THESE SCRIPTURES THAT YOU OMIT IN YOUR MISLED LIVES..........TJ

.
Blah, blah, blah Lies, lies, more lies, blah, blah, blah misrepresentations blah, blah, blah twisted information blah, blah, blah misquotes blah, blah, blah out-of-context blah, blah, blah bulk warp blah, blah, blah

[TJ Monk]

Allen Richards wrote:

<quoted text>
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Blah, blah, blah Lies, lies, more lies, blah, blah, blah misrepresentations blah, blah, blah twisted information blah, blah, blah misquotes blah, blah, blah out-of-context blah, blah, blah bulk warp blah, blah, blah

LOVE YOUR FREAKSHOW....GOD, origionator of the INQUISITION and the 12 CRUSADES.....BILLIONS of lives have been extinguished by the Catholic Church and Protestants. That's why we still have WAR today..........TRUTH.......TRU TH......BURY your little HEAD in sand.

[Allen Richards]

TJ Monk wrote:

<quoted text>
LOVE YOUR FREAKSHOW....GOD, origionator of the INQUISITION and the 12 CRUSADES.....BILLIONS of lives have been extinguished by the Catholic Church and Protestants. That's why we still have WAR today..........TRUTH.......TRU TH......BURY your little HEAD in sand.

.
Yeah right. Try learning something instead of parroting the same ol' lame ol' lying gas garbage! Tell that to the Jews in Israel right now be rocketed, not by Christians but, by Islamic Jihadists. There are an average of 130,00-160,000 Christians killed, per year, for their faith somewhere in the world mainly in Islamic countries. That is 200 a day, one every minute. Tell me some more of that mindless anti-Christian dog puke!
.

[par five]

Allen Richards wrote:

<quoted text>
.
Yeah right. Try learning something instead of parroting the same ol' lame ol' lying gas garbage! Tell that to the Jews in Israel right now be rocketed, not by Christians but, by Islamic Jihadists. There are an average of 130,00-160,000 Christians killed, per year, for their faith somewhere in the world mainly in Islamic countries. That is 200 a day, one every minute. Tell me some more of that mindless anti-Christian dog puke!
.

Israel is a terrorist state, it reaps what it sows!

[Nijoni]

par five wrote:

<quoted text>
Israel is a terrorist state, it reaps what it sows!

You really buy this.that Israel is the terrorist state. You are whacked.

[TJ Monk]

Allen Richards wrote:

<quoted text>
.
Yeah right. Try learning something instead of parroting the same ol' lame ol' lying gas garbage! Tell that to the Jews in Israel right now be rocketed, not by Christians but, by Islamic Jihadists. There are an average of 130,00-160,000 Christians killed, per year, for their faith somewhere in the world mainly in Islamic countries. That is 200 a day, one every minute. Tell me some more of that mindless anti-Christian dog puke!
.

FORGET JEWS.....Catholics Killed millions more souls.....read a history book you FREAKSHOW.....HOW could you be so ignorant????

[par five]

Repeat: Israel is a terrorist state, it reaps what it sows!

[par five]

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/deaths.h...