As gays serve openly, few problems fo...

As gays serve openly, few problems for chaplains

There are 54 comments on the The Daily Star story from Jul 4, 2012, titled As gays serve openly, few problems for chaplains. In it, The Daily Star reports that:

WRIGHTSTOWN: Col. Timothy Wagoner has been an Air Force chaplain for 20 years, serving a denomination - the Southern Baptists - that rejects same-sex relationships.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Daily Star.

First Prev
of 3
Next Last

FaFoxy

“ WOOF !”

Since: Oct 10

Coolidge, AZ

#49 Jul 8, 2012
Billy Clinton wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me make.... edited for length.... But by my count so far, I'm way ahead of you on 'eternity' points.
"But by my count so far, I'm way ahead of you on 'eternity' points."

Are you a Catholic ???!!! Because only Catholics believe that. One CANNOT "EARN" a way into heaven. PROTESTANTS believe that salvation is a FREE GIFT from God. There are NO "points" won can earn.
Billy Clinton

Carmel, ME

#50 Jul 8, 2012
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to earn brownie points for salvation?
And you actually can stand in God's place and judge the hearts and souls of others?
It' that heresy?
There is nothing in my post that refers to "brownie points for salvation", so putting context to a post that is not there is a problem you have. And you should learn to deal with others that may have a sense of humor-which you may not have.

And as I have stated, I don't speak for God. If I don't speak for Him, I certainly don't stand in for Him during judgements, whether they be hearts or souls. Again, one of your 'taken out of context' moments.

As to the charge of heresy-well I believe I have not shared an opinion that may run afoul of a "church dogma, or doctrine", nor have I offended the Holy Roman Catholic Church in it's doctrine. However, there may have been several shared opinions on this thread that may have run afoul of various church doctrines, and were stated to the contrary of no particular church's dogma, or doctrine. You will have to read those comments and decide for yourself.

Now if you desire to enter into a dicussion, or debate the subjects related to my opinion, or your's, I am all for it. But if all you want to do is ask me questions about what I post, without you having to offer anything of substance, I pass.

Billy Clinton

Carmel, ME

#51 Jul 8, 2012
FaFoxy wrote:
<quoted text>
"But by my count so far, I'm way ahead of you on 'eternity' points."
Are you a Catholic ???!!! Because only Catholics believe that. One CANNOT "EARN" a way into heaven. PROTESTANTS believe that salvation is a FREE GIFT from God. There are NO "points" won can earn.
I see right now that I need to stick to straight up commentary without the sidebar remarks to lighten up the comments.

I am not Catholic. I am Protestant to the extent that I believe in the 16th. and 17th. century reformation movements that took place in Europe and caused the great migration of Europens to the American Colonies for religious freedom purposes.

Salvation is a gift that was paid for by a human flesh being nailed to a cross, and left to slowly die there. A price was paid, and I don't consider that a "FREE GIFT" by any means. I have to earn my salvation-if for no other reason than because I don't deserve to be saved at such a price. If that is my personal belief, that I am a worthless sinner, and unworthy of the price Christ paid for my slavation, who can argue with me on my convictions? Try Romans, Chapter 6, Verse 23, of the King James Version of the Bible. "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." And His shed blood. There was a high and painful price paid.
Billy Clinton

Carmel, ME

#52 Jul 8, 2012
Quest wrote:
<quoted text>
And, again, you have not shown where ANY christian today follows all of the Holiness code. And, please provide the meaning of the original word that is translated here as "abomination". Isn't the original meaning "ritually unclean"?
Like eating shellfish or pork?
Can you show that you yourself follow each and every guidline in Leviticus, since you are telling us that it is part of YOUR belief system.
Give an honest answer. Do YOU Follow all of the holiness code for ancient Hebrew priests?
If not, that would make you both a liar and a hypocrite. Cherry picking verses to clobber others, while not following the rest of them yourself.
The definition of 'abomination', to my knowledge, is an intense hatred, or abhorance, for someone or some thing. Since I don't believe God intended the word to apply to 'shellfish or pork' when it was used in the verse about men having sex with other men, I have to allow that God has an intense hatred and abhorance for that kind of sexual behavior.

Do I have sex with other men? No I do not. Do I believe in what God has stated as an intense hatred and abhorance of? Yes I do. There is no "cherry picking" of Biblical verses to "clobber others" here, and you prove the point I tried to make in another post about attacking the messenger because you don't like the message.

And, I am not a Hebrew, ancient or otherwise. So no, I do not follow whatever code these ancient Hebrew priest may have followed.
I try to follow the God and Christ doctrines as best as a sinner can. I fail and I succeed. When I fail, I ask for forgiveness. When I succeed, I am thankful. How do you deal with your belief sysytem, or maybe you don't have one.

“Take Topix Back From Trolls”

Since: Dec 08

El Paso, TX

#53 Jul 8, 2012
Precisely and that includes freedom FROM religion. Your entitled to yours only up to the point where it interferes with mine. You cannot and will not bring your religion into the tax funded public square to over rule all others. It is my right to be outside your scope of voice and when you come here to advise others what they are to believe by LAW you are in the wrong place. Gods law is your choice, keep it where it belongs.

Keep your religion on your side of the fence, it does not belong in the laws of this nation any more than the Islamists should be allowed to do so. That's a two way street and must be kept that way for the sake of our nation.
Billy Clinton wrote:
<quoted text>
caused the great migration of Europens to the American Colonies for religious freedom purposes.

“Take Topix Back From Trolls”

Since: Dec 08

El Paso, TX

#54 Jul 8, 2012
You refute parts of Leviticus and accept others? We call that Cherry Picking the Bible. It's all or nothing, all that remains if not is hypocrisy. And surely you're not a hypocrite?
Billy Clinton wrote:
<quoted text>
The definition of 'abomination', to my knowledge, is an intense hatred, or abhorance, for someone or some thing. Since I don't believe God intended the word to apply to 'shellfish or pork' when it was used in the verse about men having sex with other men, I have to allow that God has an intense hatred and abhorance for that kind of sexual behavior.
Do I have sex with other men? No I do not. Do I believe in what God has stated as an intense hatred and abhorance of? Yes I do. There is no "cherry picking" of Biblical verses to "clobber others" here, and you prove the point I tried to make in another post about attacking the messenger because you don't like the message.
And, I am not a Hebrew, ancient or otherwise. So no, I do not follow whatever code these ancient Hebrew priest may have followed.
I try to follow the God and Christ doctrines as best as a sinner can. I fail and I succeed. When I fail, I ask for forgiveness. When I succeed, I am thankful. How do you deal with your belief sysytem, or maybe you don't have one.

“The Black Mermaid”

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#56 Jul 8, 2012
BS Detector wrote:
<quoted text> Says who? First off, who says god judges his creations? It is noted that you did start off with the disclaimer "If." Secondly, I'm not convinced that you are qualified or authorized to speak for god, emphasis on the qualified item.
<quoted text> Ah but what evidence do you have that I "hate god?" That's merely your own hateful conclusion. From a logic perspective, if your god really exists, he or she would likley be above your petty ego issues, especially hate. Or is your god so neurotic as to indulge in such things as hate (as you do)? I doubt it. Continuing logic, if your all powerful god we indeed, all powerful, she or he would not likely be intimidated nor offended by a single individual likel myself. She might be a bit cranky with hypocrites such as yourself, buit I don't claim to speak for god as you do. I figure he can do that for himself without help from either you or me.
<quoted text> First off, you are way too stupid and ignorant to have the slightest idea what I can or have handled. Perhaps you can't "handle" having your silly, pat bullsh!t challenged. WHo knows that it has any law at all? It is, as many theologhians believe, a compilation of stories, fables, and simply stories designed to illustrate a particular moral viewpoint. You degrade it by twisting it around to suit your own hate and neuroses. Your storybook bible has neither impact, importance nor power over me.
<quoted text> I'm not convinced that your god or anybody else's all powerful god is that vindictive toward his children. True, I think *you* are that neurotic and vindictive, but I'm not convinced that any kind of loving god woyuld need to be.
<quoted text> Actually, I don't *have* to do anything. My creator blessed me a superior, open, and free mind. Nor do I "attack" god. I ridicule YOU. I don't believe your storybook bible to be the word of god.
<quoted text> I don't need to justify anything to someone like you.
<quoted text> You're accidentally right. I'm straight.
Many of the more militant gays in this forum don't particularly like me because I expose and humiliate some of them just as I expose and humiliate you. That, and because I don't support same sex marriage.
<quoted text> If you know anything about modern christianity, the concept of hell and satan have been pretty much discontinued. Sure, some of the more primitive and unsophisticated denominations still subscribe to, or at least use the notion as a way to control their followers and intimidate them into obedience.
But if you insist on a sinister entity, I'd look more toward people like you who insult god and his children.
You said it eloquently and without the hatred that poster did. You are by far a better person than he/she is. God's peace and love be with you.

“The Black Mermaid”

Since: Aug 11

Location hidden

#57 Jul 8, 2012
FaFoxy wrote:
<quoted text>
"But by my count so far, I'm way ahead of you on 'eternity' points."
Are you a Catholic ???!!! Because only Catholics believe that. One CANNOT "EARN" a way into heaven. PROTESTANTS believe that salvation is a FREE GIFT from God. There are NO "points" won can earn.
FaFoxy - you're a real pleasure to know and have on this forum :)

FaFoxy

“ WOOF !”

Since: Oct 10

Coolidge, AZ

#58 Jul 8, 2012
TomInElPaso wrote:
You refute parts of Leviticus and accept others? We call that Cherry Picking the Bible. It's all or nothing, all that remains if not is hypocrisy. And surely you're not a hypocrite?
<quoted text>
But the compilers of today's bible "cherry picked" which books to include and which books to exclude. And Protestant bibles and Catholic bibles are differnt because the Protestant bible excludes certain books, verses, and chapters that the catholic sinclude.

Who's doing the "cherry picking" ???
BS Detector

Palm Desert, CA

#59 Jul 9, 2012
Billy Clinton wrote:
<quoted text>
I notice in your post you capitalize "I", but you show no such respect to God by capitalizing the first letter in His name. That is why I believe you hate so much. You can't show a simple respect for a simple name.
What you believe is so ridiculous that it warrants only contempt and ridicule, so that's what it gets. God (capita;lized here because it is the first word in the sentence) can be either upper case or lower case. You seem to require that I have some reverence for your diety that you do. I don't. Now, the names of fictional characters in literature are capitalized. If you want me to treat your god as a fictional character, I can easily do that. The god you worship means little to me.
Billy Clinton wrote:
<quoted text>
As to the rest of your ranting post,
No rant. you lie. In your cult, isn't that "bearing false witness?" Observations, opinion and ridicule are what I offered.
Billy Clinton wrote:
<quoted text>
all I can say is, what have I posted that is untrue, or a fraud? And where have I been any more offensive in defending my faith and beliefs, just because I took offense to you calling the Bible "bs" and relegating it some sort of fairy tale story book you don't like?
You are offensive in calling your opions, and the notions of your religion and storybook bible fact. They are not. Once again, you bear false witness... although I prefer the simple term: lie.
Billy Clinton wrote:
<quoted text>
You doth protest too much, you call people names when you can't, or won't find any agreement in what they post, and you won't back up your posted positions on you belief system with any documentation I might consider reading for the purpose of understanding you. So I'm the one who is "completely" wrong?
And what lesson ended?
In ther Episocal Church, during the Sunday service they had readings from the bible intended to teach a moral lesson. At the end of the reading, the minister (or whomever rewad the verses), ended their presentation (their lesson) with the pronouncemt, here endeth the lesson." Part of the ritual.

I am not to convert you to my belief syatem. Your mind is not, in my opinion, developed enough, nor sophisicated enough to understand it. All you really on your side are silly bits of cherry picked bullsh!t from your storybook bible. Consider. If your heavenly father, and my heavenly father is the same heavenly father that also created gays (and if there is another diety, good or not so good... which violates the "Thall shalt not have any gods befopre me" thing), your storybook also claims that "lest ye be born again" you don't get into the clubhouse when you're done with this life. That also suggests that your god has a 100% failure rate with this creations/children which suggests a lousy-ass god fromn a quality control perspective. Part of my belief system has the notion that my creator has better quality control than yours does. My creator doesn't get all pissy and send down floods that wipes out millions of his creations/children that he apparently didn't have any control over.

Further, you invent a convenient boogy man that you call satan or the devil or whatever name suits your fantasy. If your god is all powerful, then the could smite the sonuvabitch and everything would be hunky dorry. But no. You NEED the devil to keep people in line. You NEED the devil to blame things on. You NEED the devil to use as a convenient excuse for people doing or believe things you don't approve of.

But no. You need to create a god that is a neurotic not-all-powerful diety that you can twist and contort to satisfy your own eveil and hate.

I don't hate something I don't believe in. Your god, your storybook, and your religion, don't warrant my belief in them. Ergo, no hate.

My creator is just fine with that. Dad (heavenly) told me so. He also told me that you're a fraud and a liar.

Here endeth the lesson.
BS Detector

Palm Desert, CA

#60 Jul 9, 2012
Sherlayne wrote:
<quoted text>
You said it eloquently and without the hatred that poster did. You are by far a better person than he/she is. God's peace and love be with you.
Thank you.

Bottom line? I try to do the best I can with the gifts I have been given. That's all. I don't know that I'm any better than anybody else. I think I'm more intellectually and emotionally honest than some (certainly not all or maybe even most), but that just makes everything in life easier.

I like that kind of easy.

Peace back at you.
BS Detector

Palm Desert, CA

#61 Jul 9, 2012
TomInElPaso wrote:
Precisely and that includes freedom FROM religion. Your entitled to yours only up to the point where it interferes with mine. You cannot and will not bring your religion into the tax funded public square to over rule all others. It is my right to be outside your scope of voice and when you come here to advise others what they are to believe by LAW you are in the wrong place. Gods law is your choice, keep it where it belongs.
Keep your religion on your side of the fence, it does not belong in the laws of this nation any more than the Islamists should be allowed to do so. That's a two way street and must be kept that way for the sake of our nation.
<quoted text>
You got it completely right, Tom. Completely.

“Together for 24, legal for 5”

Since: Sep 07

Littleton, NH

#62 Jul 9, 2012
FaFoxy wrote:
<quoted text>
"But by my count so far, I'm way ahead of you on 'eternity' points."
Are you a Catholic ???!!! Because only Catholics believe that. One CANNOT "EARN" a way into heaven. PROTESTANTS believe that salvation is a FREE GIFT from God. There are NO "points" won can earn.
Protestants, as you are well-aware, believe all sorts of different things.

Some believe the saved were determined entirely by destiny, with no hope of a change in outcome. Some believe salvation is earned by good works. Some believe salvation comes merely through accepting Jesus, regardless of whether the believer has ever lifted a finger to help a fellow man.

Some believe in hell and eternal damnation, as evidenced on the popular web page goodhatesfags.com . some believe that Jesus will come and collect our souls. Others believe our physical bodies will rise zombie-like from the grave.

My point is that Catholic teachings are no more eccentric than those of the umbrella group you refer to as "Protestant.". Moreover, as much as I agree with your view of the Roman Catholic hierarchy, I distinguish between official doctrine and the real church, which is made up of people.

The Roman Catholic faith somehow manges to provide a far more rounded and accurate education to its members than these evangelical churches that run their own schools. If I had a son or daughter attending college, I would much prefer that they attend Boston College than Liberty University.

The Pope himself may be of the same feather as Fred Phelps, Bryan Fischer, James Dobson, and countless other Protestants. But the Roman Catholic Church has not managed to be nearly as destructive as these much smaller groups.

Go ahead and oppose specific policies of Roman Catholacism. Even criticize specific clergy. But do not hate all Catholics. that is pure bigotry.
Gay Force One

Massy, France

#63 Jul 9, 2012
Lorton wrote:
Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
Gays make the banned-from-Heaven list but murderers don't apparently :p... pretty strange !:o

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 3
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Southern Baptist Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News What would Jesus say about same-sex marriage? (Jul '15) 1 hr Prisoner of my Mo... 10,305
News Roger Hines: Clarity and controversy from the B... Sep 21 Pat Robertson s F... 98
why are southern baptists sooooo self-righteous? (Feb '11) Sep 20 Deb 111
I Wonder! Would God be Welcome in Houston Texas... Sep 11 South Knox Hombre 2
Abortion supported in the Bible? Sep 6 Gismys 2
Why do we not hear a National call to Pray for ... Aug 27 Gismys 1
Faith==Believe Beyond What You See. Aug '17 Gismys 1
More from around the web