Pakistan allows Indian Sikhs to visit...

Pakistan allows Indian Sikhs to visit four more gurdwaras

There are 116 comments on the India Gazette story from Sep 21, 2012, titled Pakistan allows Indian Sikhs to visit four more gurdwaras. In it, India Gazette reports that:

Pakistan government allows Indian Sikh devotees to visit only 16 of the 175 gurdwaras.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at India Gazette.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#69 Oct 11, 2012
Do away wth the blasphemy law. That would see Pakistan move a hundred steps ahead.
Pak Jatt Soorma

Melbourne, Australia

#70 Oct 11, 2012
cairene wrote:
Do away wth the blasphemy law. That would see Pakistan move a hundred steps ahead.
Yep Insha'Allah, teri viah da planning keeda jaande ah ?
Fateh

Brampton, Canada

#71 Oct 11, 2012
cairene wrote:
<quoted text>
You have to factor this in. There are about a billion muslims. About 70%, i reckon, live below the poverty line in the Middle East and Pakistan. Their respective govts are doing jackass sh*t. Their govts are not "Islamic" for most aren't democratic.
When pushed to a corner, most simply take the easiest way out.(i) they rationalise that their suffering is part of the bigger plan GOd has for them (ii) they find a scapegoat for their problems and usually, the scapegoat will be a foreigner (iii) wit divinity being played into the equation, they believe whatever evil they are doing is justified.
I do not like what they do, but if we are to eradicate them completely, we need to know why they became what they are now. Coming to Islam from Sikhism, i can assure u, it is not Islam. It is the failure of the Ummah (if there is such a thing now) to protect the underprivilege from harm.
I am sure u have heard of Malala Yoosufzai! You seem to have a very narrow world view of Muslims! Sorry to say this!
How do I have a narrow mind about Islam? First of all, I never said anything against Islam. Rather I said Muslims are committing these atrocities and it is the ummah that needs to raise awareness in order to prevent these atrocities against minorities and rectify the situation; Instead of rationalizing, ignoring, finding scapegoats, appealing to authority (divinity) and sympathizing with these beasts. You have confirmed that this is what 70% of Muslims are doing. The government is not forcing them to discriminate against minorities, they are just taking the easy way out, as you have stated. Apply it to real life, why are sikhs only allowed to visist 16 out 175 Gurdwara's? Whose to blame? The people? The terrorists? The government? All?

You have it backwards, Islamic nations are non-democratic not democratic. The only Islamic majority countries/nations that are considered as democracies internationally are Indonesia and Malaysia and those are classified as "flawed democracy".

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#72 Oct 11, 2012
Fateh wrote:
<quoted text>
How do I have a narrow mind about Islam? First of all, I never said anything against Islam. Rather I said Muslims are committing these atrocities and it is the ummah that needs to raise awareness in order to prevent these atrocities against minorities and rectify the situation; Instead of rationalizing, ignoring, finding scapegoats, appealing to authority (divinity) and sympathizing with these beasts. You have confirmed that this is what 70% of Muslims are doing. The government is not forcing them to discriminate against minorities, they are just taking the easy way out, as you have stated. Apply it to real life, why are sikhs only allowed to visist 16 out 175 Gurdwara's? Whose to blame? The people? The terrorists? The government? All?
You have it backwards, Islamic nations are non-democratic not democratic. The only Islamic majority countries/nations that are considered as democracies internationally are Indonesia and Malaysia and those are classified as "flawed democracy".
(i) Where did i confirm that 70% of the Muslim population indulge in such acts? The perps of terror related activities come, mostly from this 70% population, but never did i say 70% of the population indulge in such acts.

(ii)There is no such thing as the Ummah. It's a fanciful notion. I never believe there was an Ummah based on religious principles but rather, the Ummah moved by political ambitions.

(iii) You have time and time again, reflected that Muslims are probably doing this cos it's sanctioned in the Quran. Dead wrong. The Quran speaks of no human oppressing mankind for that is the worse sin.

(iv) Which of these countries are Islamic? Because they fit your definition of what an islamic nation is supposed to be? Read Jinnah's speech. Pakistan was supposed to be the FIRST Islamic nation which followed true islamic principles, i.e. freedom of religion, freedom of speech and equality for all. The Pakistan u see now is not an Islamic state.

(v) Which democracy is not considered a flawed democracy? All democracies are flawed. The idea of a democratic govt elected by the majority is flawed because we have a substantial section being ruled by someone not of their choice. Think USA, usually the margin between winner and loser is about 1-3%. Democracy is in itself a flawed concept. Nevertheless, it's still the best we have so far.
(vi) India is considered to be a bigger "flawed" democracy than Malaysia and Indonesia. Heck, i'd argue even Singapore is more flawed as a democratic state than those two countries.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#73 Oct 11, 2012
Pak Jatt Soorma wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep Insha'Allah, teri viah da planning keeda jaande ah ?
Argh, don't wanna talk about it. God willing, i don't have an aneurysm before the wedding!
Pak Jatt Soorma

Ivanhoe, Australia

#74 Oct 11, 2012
cairene wrote:
<quoted text>Argh, don't wanna talk about it. God willing, i don't have an aneurysm before the wedding!
Lets hope not yaar, thunda dimaag naal soch le
Pak Jatt Soorma

Ivanhoe, Australia

#75 Oct 11, 2012
cairene wrote:
<quoted text>(i) Where did i confirm that 70% of the Muslim population indulge in such acts? The perps of terror related activities come, mostly from this 70% population, but never did i say 70% of the population indulge in such acts.

(ii)There is no such thing as the Ummah. It's a fanciful notion. I never believe there was an Ummah based on religious principles but rather, the Ummah moved by political ambitions.

(iii) You have time and time again, reflected that Muslims are probably doing this cos it's sanctioned in the Quran. Dead wrong. The Quran speaks of no human oppressing mankind for that is the worse sin.

(iv) Which of these countries are Islamic? Because they fit your definition of what an islamic nation is supposed to be? Read Jinnah's speech. Pakistan was supposed to be the FIRST Islamic nation which followed true islamic principles, i.e. freedom of religion, freedom of speech and equality for all. The Pakistan u see now is not an Islamic state.

(v) Which democracy is not considered a flawed democracy? All democracies are flawed. The idea of a democratic govt elected by the majority is flawed because we have a substantial section being ruled by someone not of their choice. Think USA, usually the margin between winner and loser is about 1-3%. Democracy is in itself a flawed concept. Nevertheless, it's still the best we have so far.
(vi) India is considered to be a bigger "flawed" democracy than Malaysia and Indonesia. Heck, i'd argue even Singapore is more flawed as a democratic state than those two countries.
India is definitely a flawed democracy
Fateh

Brampton, Canada

#76 Oct 12, 2012
cairene wrote:
<quoted text>
(i) Where did i confirm that 70% of the Muslim population indulge in such acts? The perps of terror related activities come, mostly from this 70% population, but never did i say 70% of the population indulge in such acts.
(ii)There is no such thing as the Ummah. It's a fanciful notion. I never believe there was an Ummah based on religious principles but rather, the Ummah moved by political ambitions.
(iii) You have time and time again, reflected that Muslims are probably doing this cos it's sanctioned in the Quran. Dead wrong. The Quran speaks of no human oppressing mankind for that is the worse sin.
(iv) Which of these countries are Islamic? Because they fit your definition of what an islamic nation is supposed to be? Read Jinnah's speech. Pakistan was supposed to be the FIRST Islamic nation which followed true islamic principles, i.e. freedom of religion, freedom of speech and equality for all. The Pakistan u see now is not an Islamic state.
(v) Which democracy is not considered a flawed democracy? All democracies are flawed. The idea of a democratic govt elected by the majority is flawed because we have a substantial section being ruled by someone not of their choice. Think USA, usually the margin between winner and loser is about 1-3%. Democracy is in itself a flawed concept. Nevertheless, it's still the best we have so far.
(vi) India is considered to be a bigger "flawed" democracy than Malaysia and Indonesia. Heck, i'd argue even Singapore is more flawed as a democratic state than those two countries.
You have taken this completly off topic Ms. Zakir Naik.

You want sikhs too move on and forget about the past attrocities committed by muslims but you fail to recognize that these atrocities are still being committed by muslims against sikhs and non-muslims in the middle east and pakistan.

The past is the past but you can't move forward until you recognize and remedy the past attrocities and make an honest effort to prevent such atrocities from occuring again. The opposite of this is happening in Islamic nations.

We might not agree on who, what, when, where and why this is happening but there is no doubt that it is happening and nothing is being done about.

If you want to speak about what a democracy, islamic democracy, flawed democracy, islamic nations, etc., you need to define what these are according to international standards and not your own opinion.
Fateh

Brampton, Canada

#77 Oct 12, 2012
Pak Jatt Soorma wrote:
<quoted text>
India is definitely a flawed democracy
Ya it is classified as a flawed democracy but it still rates higher on the democratic index than any muslim majority country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_democrac...

http://www.sida.se/Global/About%20Sida/S%C3%A...

In fact most muslim majority countries are not classified as free, democratic and secular societies.
Fateh

Brampton, Canada

#78 Oct 12, 2012
cairene wrote:
<quoted text>
(i) Where did i confirm that 70% of the Muslim population indulge in such acts? The perps of terror related activities come, mostly from this 70% population, but never did i say 70% of the population indulge in such acts.
(ii)There is no such thing as the Ummah. It's a fanciful notion. I never believe there was an Ummah based on religious principles but rather, the Ummah moved by political ambitions.
(iii) You have time and time again, reflected that Muslims are probably doing this cos it's sanctioned in the Quran. Dead wrong. The Quran speaks of no human oppressing mankind for that is the worse sin.
(iv) Which of these countries are Islamic? Because they fit your definition of what an islamic nation is supposed to be? Read Jinnah's speech. Pakistan was supposed to be the FIRST Islamic nation which followed true islamic principles, i.e. freedom of religion, freedom of speech and equality for all. The Pakistan u see now is not an Islamic state.
(v) Which democracy is not considered a flawed democracy? All democracies are flawed. The idea of a democratic govt elected by the majority is flawed because we have a substantial section being ruled by someone not of their choice. Think USA, usually the margin between winner and loser is about 1-3%. Democracy is in itself a flawed concept. Nevertheless, it's still the best we have so far.
(vi) India is considered to be a bigger "flawed" democracy than Malaysia and Indonesia. Heck, i'd argue even Singapore is more flawed as a democratic state than those two countries.
Take a look at the sites I posted and you will which countries are full, flawed, or hybrid democracies.
Fateh

Brampton, Canada

#79 Oct 12, 2012
An Islamic state (al-dawlah al-islam&#299;yah) is a type of government, in which the primary basis for government is Islamic religious law.

Islamic states/nations:

Afghanistan
Iran
Mauritania
Pakistan
Saudi Arabia
Yemen

Ironically, some of these countries are the ones with most discrimination against non-muslims, yet, they claim they follow Islamic religious law.
Fateh

Brampton, Canada

#80 Oct 12, 2012
So whats the problem in these countries. Is it Islamic law? the muslim people? or both?

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#81 Oct 12, 2012
Fateh wrote:
<quoted text>
You have taken this completly off topic Ms. Zakir Naik.
You want sikhs too move on and forget about the past attrocities committed by muslims but you fail to recognize that these atrocities are still being committed by muslims against sikhs and non-muslims in the middle east and pakistan.
The past is the past but you can't move forward until you recognize and remedy the past attrocities and make an honest effort to prevent such atrocities from occuring again. The opposite of this is happening in Islamic nations.
We might not agree on who, what, when, where and why this is happening but there is no doubt that it is happening and nothing is being done about.
If you want to speak about what a democracy, islamic democracy, flawed democracy, islamic nations, etc., you need to define what these are according to international standards and not your own opinion.
Zakir Naik? Lol.

Fateh, grow some brain cells and learn to think for yourself. What the mughals did was bad, what whoever did was bad, but were they muslims? U think whatever Osama did was "Islamic"?

There u go. U think all this is occuring within the bounds of Islam. There has never been an islamic state after Muhammad (pbuh).

You have failed to understand that democracy itself is a concept doomed for failure. I don't see any point in this. May Waheguru grant u with an open mind, and inshallah, you will gain knowledge.
Jim

Australia

#82 Oct 13, 2012
cairene wrote:
<quoted text>
Zakir Naik? Lol.
Fateh, grow some brain cells and learn to think for yourself. What the mughals did was bad, what whoever did was bad, but were they muslims? U think whatever Osama did was "Islamic"?
There u go. U think all this is occuring within the bounds of Islam. There has never been an islamic state after Muhammad (pbuh).
You have failed to understand that democracy itself is a concept doomed for failure. I don't see any point in this. May Waheguru grant u with an open mind, and inshallah, you will gain knowledge.
You are a genius.I am not capable to your level but will add.

What injustices Muslims have done or still doing in Pakistan and UAE takes the shit out of other more qualified Muslims.
What Sikhs will do now will affect their future. If few make an effort to forgive then it will go a very long way and only then Muslims will have to change for ever.
At present every Muslim including me thinks the same as every Sikh thinks. If One party makes an effort other must appreciate it as it hard to happen. If this happens what can be the future of both . Cannot be bad it has to be better.
Fateh

Brampton, Canada

#83 Oct 16, 2012
cairene wrote:
<quoted text>
Zakir Naik? Lol.
Fateh, grow some brain cells and learn to think for yourself. What the mughals did was bad, what whoever did was bad, but were they muslims? U think whatever Osama did was "Islamic"?
There u go. U think all this is occuring within the bounds of Islam. There has never been an islamic state after Muhammad (pbuh).
You have failed to understand that democracy itself is a concept doomed for failure. I don't see any point in this. May Waheguru grant u with an open mind, and inshallah, you will gain knowledge.
As long as there are muslim apologists in the world like you groups like the taliban will thrive.

I am thinking for myself. I see muslim apologists, like yourself in Pakistan, blaming the U.S for attacks against that poor girl that got shot because she spoke out against the Taliban. Blame everyone but the people that are doing it and the people that are doing these crimes are the ones that claim to be the ones following Islam. I see headlines stating that Sikhs are "allowed" to visist 16 out of 175 Gurdwaras and wonder why this is happening in Islamic countries.

I will tell you again since you are thick headed apologist. I am not blaming Islam but the followers of Islam that are committing these crimes against humanity.

You seem to think all Sikhs are concerned with are the Mughals. What the Mughals did was no doubt horrible but that is old news. Todays Sikhs are concerned with their children being beheaded by the Pakistani taliban, being treated like second class citizens in muslim majority countries, not being allowed full religious rights and freedoms in muslim majority countries and Sicl and tired of the intimidation and threats of death in muslim countries.

May Allah open your eyes and grant you the will power and strength to realize the truth and stand up aginst these muslim goons.
Pak Jatt Soorma

Ivanhoe, Australia

#84 Oct 16, 2012
Fateh wrote:
<quoted text>
As long as there are muslim apologists in the world like you groups like the taliban will thrive.
I am thinking for myself. I see muslim apologists, like yourself in Pakistan, blaming the U.S for attacks against that poor girl that got shot because she spoke out against the Taliban. Blame everyone but the people that are doing it and the people that are doing these crimes are the ones that claim to be the ones following Islam. I see headlines stating that Sikhs are "allowed" to visist 16 out of 175 Gurdwaras and wonder why this is happening in Islamic countries.
I will tell you again since you are thick headed apologist. I am not blaming Islam but the followers of Islam that are committing these crimes against humanity.
You seem to think all Sikhs are concerned with are the Mughals. What the Mughals did was no doubt horrible but that is old news. Todays Sikhs are concerned with their children being beheaded by the Pakistani taliban, being treated like second class citizens in muslim majority countries, not being allowed full religious rights and freedoms in muslim majority countries and Sicl and tired of the intimidation and threats of death in muslim countries.
May Allah open your eyes and grant you the will power and strength to realize the truth and stand up aginst these muslim goons.
fuark the taliban, Malala yousafzai zindabad !
Fateh

Brampton, Canada

#85 Oct 16, 2012
Pak Jatt Soorma wrote:
<quoted text> fuark the taliban, Malala yousafzai zindabad !
Some people in Pakistan are finally protesting the taliban which should have happend ages ago. My question is why now? because it is a muslim that faced the wrath of the taliban. Where were the protests when the sikh boy was beheaded? Anyway, atleast the people are finally standing up to the taliban.

The politicians need to join in now too and support the people in these protests against the taliban. Unfortunately, poloticians like Imran Khan are still not speaking out against the taliban; rather he is blaming the US for this.

People in Pakistan are becoming anti-taliban now which is sad because that means they were pro-taliban or atleast neutral before this.
Pak Jatt Soorma

Ivanhoe, Australia

#86 Oct 16, 2012
Fateh wrote:
<quoted text>
Some people in Pakistan are finally protesting the taliban which should have happend ages ago. My question is why now? because it is a muslim that faced the wrath of the taliban. Where were the protests when the sikh boy was beheaded? Anyway, atleast the people are finally standing up to the taliban.
The politicians need to join in now too and support the people in these protests against the taliban. Unfortunately, poloticians like Imran Khan are still not speaking out against the taliban; rather he is blaming the US for this.
People in Pakistan are becoming anti-taliban now which is sad because that means they were pro-taliban or atleast neutral before this.
Politicians need to speak out and frankly I do not know why there wasn't a protest against them when the innocent sikh boy was beheaded for refusing to pay jizya/convert to Islam, it just makes the whole of Pakistan look like a bunch of Jihadi nutcases, we need better politicians, Imran Khan did make a video condemning the taliban
Fateh

Brampton, Canada

#87 Oct 16, 2012
Pak Jatt Soorma wrote:
<quoted text> Politicians need to speak out and frankly I do not know why there wasn't a protest against them when the innocent sikh boy was beheaded for refusing to pay jizya/convert to Islam, it just makes the whole of Pakistan look like a bunch of Jihadi nutcases, we need better politicians, Imran Khan did make a video condemning the taliban
Good for him...I never knew that.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#88 Oct 16, 2012
Fateh wrote:
<quoted text>
As long as there are muslim apologists in the world like you groups like the taliban will thrive.
I am thinking for myself. I see muslim apologists, like yourself in Pakistan, blaming the U.S for attacks against that poor girl that got shot because she spoke out against the Taliban. Blame everyone but the people that are doing it and the people that are doing these crimes are the ones that claim to be the ones following Islam. I see headlines stating that Sikhs are "allowed" to visist 16 out of 175 Gurdwaras and wonder why this is happening in Islamic countries.
I will tell you again since you are thick headed apologist. I am not blaming Islam but the followers of Islam that are committing these crimes against humanity.
You seem to think all Sikhs are concerned with are the Mughals. What the Mughals did was no doubt horrible but that is old news. Todays Sikhs are concerned with their children being beheaded by the Pakistani taliban, being treated like second class citizens in muslim majority countries, not being allowed full religious rights and freedoms in muslim majority countries and Sicl and tired of the intimidation and threats of death in muslim countries.
May Allah open your eyes and grant you the will power and strength to realize the truth and stand up aginst these muslim goons.
Muslim apologist? WHen did i blame the US for everything? Yes. I am an apologist, but not an evangelist. I will defend Islam against wrong views, whether they come from you or from the Taliban or any other moronesque person or being. So defending Islam is tacitly supporting the Taliban? Then what is ur view of Islam? Why don't u just come out and say it?

AND FATEH, GET IT IN YOUR SKULL. MY MUM IS STILL A SIKH, SO ARE A MAJORITY OF MY COUSINS AND RELATIVES. Your roundabout "inside" knowledge on Sikhs is futile with me. I know that there are some sikhs really against Muslims, for reasons unbeknowst to me. But i do know that a majority of Sikhs have no issues whatsoever with any group of people. I've seen it and if they had issues, my my, wouldn't my mum kick me to the curb? I can only deduce that your abhorrent attitude towards muslims in general is due to not mingling with them as much. We are not Perhaps, i should be thankful then, for being born in a country with many religious minorities, one of which would be Sikhs.

I don't mind. Allah should open my eyes. Allah should open all of our eyes.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Sikh Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
real cpl swap (May '15) 1 min cpl 118
mom sis wife ki baaty 4 min Rakesh 16
pyasi housewife (Jun '15) 5 min RAAJ GUPTA 23,941
@@@@@ bihar me koi hai jisko bacha chahiye o... 5 min sanjubhai72778620... 2
meri maa behan ko chodo (Mar '15) 11 min raman3 5,734
real me sex se bchha chahiye raipur se my wath... 16 min RAAJ GUPTA 3
Ahmedabad hot gay pm here (Apr '15) 19 min raja 28,235
More from around the web