The Law of Moses

Since: Aug 10

Pacific Northwest USA

#81 Oct 2, 2012
Doug Mason wrote:
<quoted text>
On that basis the Sabbath is only relevant to the Israelites, since it was to be kept because they were rescued from Egypt.(Deut 5:15).
I presuume you know why the Deuteronomist calls the mountain "Horeb" instead of "Sinai".
Doug
Please enlighten us.
birdman

Arthur, IL

#82 Oct 2, 2012
GrammyJoanne wrote:
<quoted text>It does indeed get wearisome to repeatedly see statements telling us that we've said "this or that," or that we believe/don't believe "this or that" when it's completely untrue - many times it's the exact opposite of what we've actually said or what we truly believe. Poor memory skills or untruthfulness??? Hmmmmmm...
could be but with SHADRACH it is A LIE most all the time.

Since: Aug 10

Pacific Northwest USA

#83 Oct 2, 2012
birdman wrote:
<quoted text>
could be but with SHADRACH it is A LIE most all the time.
Shad speaks truth, but you can't handle the truth!

Since: Dec 07

Melbourne, Australia

#84 Oct 2, 2012
GrammyJoanne wrote:
<quoted text>I just re-read it, Shad. Once again, all directed to ancient Israel.
Let me put you in on a secret - all of the Hebrew Bible was written by Jews to Jews about Jews for Jews. Jesus (Yeshua/Joshua) was a Jew. Paul was a Jew.

When every scribe wrote they were addressing their own immediate community, using their own concepts, language, culture, comprehension, and so on. They had no idea they were writing to us or about us.

Each Decalogue was written by its own set of scribes, hence the differences in the surrounding story, and the content of each Decalogue.

Dooug

Since: Dec 07

Melbourne, Australia

#85 Oct 2, 2012
GrammyJoanne wrote:
<quoted text>Please enlighten us.
Each set of scribes employed their stories to promote their own objectives. One set of scribes used "Sinai" while the other used "Horeb".

It is likely that Deuteronomy, for example, was witten by scribes about the time of Josiah, possibly with Jeremiah's scribe having a hand.

The various threads were united into the form we now have in the 4th to 2nd centuries BCE, with Ezra being more than likely the driving force (see Nehemiah 8, for example).

One example showing how two separate sources were woven together is available at:

http://www.jwstudies.com/Two_Flood_Stories.pd...

If you are genuinely interested in researching these sources, I am only too pleased to provide you with scholarly references.

Doug
Shadrach

Santa Clara, CA

#86 Oct 3, 2012
Doug you are very correct, the Sabbath was a COVENANT made with Israel and NOT with any other Nation or people Deut 7:6 Ex 31:16

The Christian was NEVER EVER given this covenant.

The Christian was given Christ, our Covenant of rest

Isa 49:8 Heb 4:9,10
birdman

Mattoon, IL

#87 Oct 3, 2012
GrammyJoanne wrote:
<quoted text>Shad speaks truth, but you can't handle the truth!
WHERE? it seems most all he posts is the same lies over and over and your ignorance follows.
JesusWasNOTaJew GoogleIt

Newton Center, MA

#88 Oct 3, 2012
Doug Mason wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me put you in on a secret - all of the Hebrew Bible was written by Jews to Jews about Jews for Jews. Jesus (Yeshua/Joshua) was a Jew. Paul was a Jew.
When every scribe wrote they were addressing their own immediate community, using their own concepts, language, culture, comprehension, and so on. They had no idea they were writing to us or about us.
Each Decalogue was written by its own set of scribes, hence the differences in the surrounding story, and the content of each Decalogue.
Dooug
google "Jesus was not a Jew"
Pioneer

Gilbert, AZ

#89 Oct 3, 2012
JesusWasNOTaJew GoogleIt wrote:
<quoted text>
google "Jesus was not a Jew"
This person has a demon pray he fall by the word of God.
Just give him Bible those who know some and do not answer to his evil mouth and mind.

Prov 24:19 Fret not thyself because of evil [men], neither be thou envious at the wicked; 24:20 For there shall be no reward to the evil [man]; the candle of the wicked shall be put out.
God Hates 1948 IsraHELL

Newton Center, MA

#90 Oct 3, 2012
I'm a demon cuz I won't agree with the nonsense that Jesus was a jew?
pppfffffffffffffffffffffttt!
here I googled it for u-

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&safe=off&...

My Bible says God is No respecter of persons
Acts 10:34 Romans 2:11 and James 2:1-13
last I checked jews are persons
besides, even if you believe that bloodline jews are somehow special or dispensated in God's eye then you need to understand that most of those today who call themselves 'jews' are not only atheists/agnostics but most are not true bloodline jews but rather Khazarians
DNA research proves this, and it has proved the Fact that the average arab in the Middle east today is MORE likely to be an actual Semite (descendent of Shem) then the average so-called jew!

Since: Aug 10

Pacific Northwest USA

#91 Oct 3, 2012
birdman wrote:
<quoted text>
WHERE? it seems most all he posts is the same lies over and over and your ignorance follows.
That's your opinion. No offense intended, but not many here value your opinion.
birdman

Mattoon, IL

#92 Oct 3, 2012
GrammyJoanne wrote:
<quoted text>That's your opinion. No offense intended, but not many here value your opinion.
Yes most dont like the TRUTH, as you are one that gave up some truth.

Sad to say some day you will find out
jonebgood

Abbotsford, Canada

#93 Oct 4, 2012
birdman wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes most dont like the TRUTH, as you are one that gave up some truth.
Sad to say some day you will find out
Jesus said I am the Way the Truth and the Life no man cometh unto the Father but by Me. Thats the only Truth we need to know. We are to love the Truth with all our heart and our nieghbour as ourself.
jonebgood

Abbotsford, Canada

#94 Oct 4, 2012
sitkahappy wrote:
<quoted text>
Let me see...didn't your God sent a young boy over to Egypt...where he saved everyone in Egypt from famine...and didn't everyone know about that....because they made him second in command of the entire nation?
Exodus 19:6
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.
Revelation 1:6
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father;
But wait...then Jesus said,'Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.' Matthew 23:15
Once again I find no old testement verse that God directed Israel to present His laws to the surrounding nations.

Since: Aug 10

Pacific Northwest USA

#95 Oct 4, 2012
birdman wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes most dont like the TRUTH, as you are one that gave up some truth.
Sad to say some day you will find out
Resting securely in the righteousness of my Savior, Jesus, until He comes to take me home, or when I die and end up in heaven - whichever comes first. In either case, I'm safe in Him.

Since: Dec 07

Melbourne, Australia

#96 Oct 5, 2012
Shadrach wrote:
Doug you are very correct, the Sabbath was a COVENANT made with Israel and NOT with any other Nation or people Deut 7:6 Ex 31:16
The Christian was NEVER EVER given this covenant.
The Christian was given Christ, our Covenant of rest
Isa 49:8 Heb 4:9,10
I have never said that a command is a covenant.

A covenant is an agreement, it is not not a law, command, or statute.

There were several agreements (covenants). Te scribes/priests wrote that the agreement made in each case said that if you obey the commands we ("God") give you then God will bless you.

Hence the people could not comprehend why God had permitted the heathen nations to defeat them and send them into captivity (Israel and the Assyrians; Judah and the Babylonians; under Antiochus Epiphanes, etc).

The priests took advantage of these situations and wrote these stories, with the outcome that a fundamentalism known as Pharisaism was created. We see the example with Ezra, who is likely the one responsible for the redaction of the writings into the Pentateuch we now have.

They wrote that God had promised (made covenants) that if the nation obeyed his commands, laws and statutes, then he would bless and protect them. The parlous state of the nation thus showed, they wrote, showed that they should have obeyed the prophets, priests and scribes who railed against the nation copying the practices of the surrounding nations with their plural Gods, human sacrifices and so on.

We are now left to read their propaganda. The story of the Moses event was written several centuries after the times being described, while the versions we now read is the result of editing and amendments made several centuries later.

Doug

Since: Dec 07

Melbourne, Australia

#97 Oct 5, 2012
jonebgood wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus said I am the Way the Truth and the Life no man cometh unto the Father but by Me. Thats the only Truth we need to know. We are to love the Truth with all our heart and our nieghbour as ourself.
You do not know that Jesus/Yeshua/Joshua said this.

All you know is that someone wrote that Jesus said this.

Jesus never wrote anything, so you do not have any evidence from him. Perhaps he could not write, which was not uncommon.

Doug
Shadrach

Santa Clara, CA

#98 Oct 5, 2012
Doug Mason wrote:
<quoted text>
I have never said that a command is a covenant.
A covenant is an agreement, it is not not a law, command, or statute.
There were several agreements (covenants). Te scribes/priests wrote that the agreement made in each case said that if you obey the commands we ("God") give you then God will bless you.
Hence the people could not comprehend why God had permitted the heathen nations to defeat them and send them into captivity (Israel and the Assyrians; Judah and the Babylonians; under Antiochus Epiphanes, etc).
The priests took advantage of these situations and wrote these stories, with the outcome that a fundamentalism known as Pharisaism was created. We see the example with Ezra, who is likely the one responsible for the redaction of the writings into the Pentateuch we now have.
They wrote that God had promised (made covenants) that if the nation obeyed his commands, laws and statutes, then he would bless and protect them. The parlous state of the nation thus showed, they wrote, showed that they should have obeyed the prophets, priests and scribes who railed against the nation copying the practices of the surrounding nations with their plural Gods, human sacrifices and so on.
We are now left to read their propaganda. The story of the Moses event was written several centuries after the times being described, while the versions we now read is the result of editing and amendments made several centuries later.
Doug
This is what you said to Grammy;

On that basis the Sabbath is only relevant to the Israelites, since it was to be kept because they were rescued from Egypt.(Deut 5:15).

----------

and I made my comment, and now here is sa more;

12 And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 13 “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying:‘Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.

16 Therefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant.

conclusion:

The 4th commandment is a COVENANT between God and Israel

Which points to the Covenant of Christ given to mankind , as or rest by and through Him Heb 4;9,10 Jn 3:16 3;18 Jn 5:24
Shadrach

Santa Clara, CA

#99 Oct 5, 2012
Shadrach wrote:
Not one adventist or legalist or the savage wolves as Paul states, will teach this truth, they will not teach;
The Ten C's was a COVENANT God gave just to Israel and no other nation or people;
read
7 “For what great nation is there that has God so near to it, as the Lord our God is to us, for whatever reason we may call upon Him? 8 And what great nation is there that has such statutes and righteous judgments as are in all this law which I set before you this day? 9 Only take heed to yourself, and diligently keep yourself, lest you forget the things your eyes have seen, and lest they depart from your heart all the days of your life. And teach them to your children and your grandchildren, 10 especially concerning the day you stood before the Lord your God in Horeb, when the Lord said to me,‘Gather the people to Me, and I will let them hear My words, that they may learn to fear Me all the days they live on the earth, and that they may teach their children.’
11 “Then you came near and stood at the foot of the mountain, and the mountain burned with fire to the midst of heaven, with darkness, cloud, and thick darkness. 12 And the Lord spoke to you out of the midst of the fire. You heard the sound of the words, but saw no form; you only heard a voice.
SAY THIS , can you SAY THIS TO SOMEONE
Can you teach this truth, the Ten's was a COVENANT given just to Israel
13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.
and God gave the COVENANT to Moses and all the associated law Ex 24:12 and told Moses to write it in a Book, called the Book of the Law or the Book of the Covenant Deut 30:10
Throughout the history of Israel they were
teaching and accepting the Law of Moses or the Book of this Covenant, that ALL Israelites agreed to follow in a bilateral Contract Ex 19:5-8 with God.
QUESTION
were you asked by God to make this Covenant agreement......NO.......... Eph 2:12
Now here are many Israelites who knew they were under the contract with God, the Law of Moses or the Book of the Covenant
Neh ch 9 and 10 1 Kings 2:3 Joshua 23:6,26
Deut 30:10
Conclusion;
God has not and will not EVER make this Covenant He made with Israel....with a Christian.
It does not exist in Gods teaching...you have been fed lies upon lies
and you are all without evidence, proof, no scripture what soever, in which to prove Joneb or myself wrong
The scriptures really mean what they say,
now try again, see if you can say
or tell someone the this truth, that you just read
The Ten C's are not for a Christian
The Ten C's is a Covenant God made with Israel
The Ten C's is in the Book of the Law
The Ten C's is in the Law of Moses
The Ten C's is in the Book of the Law of Moses
the Conk teaches, the lie, that the Ten C's were "not" in the Book of the Law,

but you all know the truth now.........

he doesn't
BoWing

Oshawa, Canada

#100 Oct 5, 2012
Shadrach wrote:
<quoted text>
This is what you said to Grammy;
On that basis the Sabbath is only relevant to the Israelites, since it was to be kept because they were rescued from Egypt.(Deut 5:15).
----------
The 4th commandment is a COVENANT between God and Israel
Which points to the Covenant of Christ given to mankind , as or rest by and through Him Heb 4;9,10 Jn 3:16 3;18 Jn 5:24
Here's the simple truth folks, you want to follow in Jesus footsteps? You say you are a follower of Christ? Then follow his example!

Mark 1:21
Then they went into Capernaum, and immediately on the Sabbath He entered the synagogue and taught.

Mark 6:2
And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue. And many hearing Him were astonished, saying,“Where did this Man get these things? And what wisdom is this which is given to Him, that such mighty works are performed by His hands!

Luke 4:16
So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.

Now listen to Jesus himself:

Mark 2:27
And He said to them,“The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

From Jesus Christ our LORD, from His very lips who did He say the Sabbath was made for? Jews or man?

Don't listen to Shadrach trying to twist Jesus words saying that in "man" he was referring to the Jews.

Matthew 4:4
But He answered and said,“It is written,‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’”

Deuteronomy 8:3
...but man lives by every word that proceeds from the mouth of the LORD.

Does "man" here apply to all MAN or JEWS?

Ok, how about the early Christians did they follow Christ's words and examples regarding the Sabbath?

Acts 13:42
So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

(Just a thought, why didn't the Gentiles beg that these words be preached the next day - Sunday, or Monday, or Tuesday, or ... as some teach?)

Acts 18:4
And he reasoned in the synagogue EVERY Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

So who should you follow, Jesus and His apostles words and examples or Shadrach's false teachings? It's really simple folks, do what Jesus did...keep the Sabbath day Holy and attend church on His Holy day.

To those who still resist the truth. Show us in all of Holy Scripture where Jesus said I AM the SABBATH? One verse?

Oh, don't till me this passage?

Matthew 11:28
28 Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I WILL GIVE YOU REST. 29 Take My yoke upon you and LEARN FROM ME, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and YOU WILL FIND REST FOR YOUR SOULS.

Or these ones?

6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He DESIGNATES A CERTAIN DAY, saying in David,“Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:
“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of ANOTHER DAY. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

Jesus's teaching is very simple folks:

Mark 2:27
And He said to them,“The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath.

AND read this slowly. Jesus IS NOT the SABBATH (you will not find one verse that says He is the Sabbath), listen to the words of Jesus to be absolutely clear:

Matthew 12:8
For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Mark 2:28
Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”

Luke 6:5
And He said to them,“The Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.”

He is LORD of the SABBATH. NOT "HE is the SABBATH".

So again, who should you listen and follow, Jesus and His Apostles or Shadrach and his "friends" regarding this matter? What Would Jesus Do?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Seventh-day Adventist Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
When Did the Old Covenant End and the New Coven... 11 min Keep Sabbath 24_7 852
3 Questions that frighten all SDA CULT members! (May '14) 1 hr Lay Worker 580
Good site for folks looking for a way out. 2 hr Stephen1989 16
Hubble 2 hr Keep Sabbath 24_7 3
k j v 2 hr Keep Sabbath 24_7 4
SDA Church not keeping anything from the Old Te... 2 hr Keep Sabbath 24_7 7
Hypocrisy in SDA church 2 hr Keep Sabbath 24_7 71
White Washed (Jun '12) 7 hr Zog Has-fallen 52
More from around the web