Abuse in the SDA
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Lisa

Annandale, Australia

#1 Oct 2, 2010
transplanted fireweed

Benson, AZ

#2 Oct 3, 2010
Lisa wrote:
The devil is alive and well...yes, even in the SDA church! I have no idea why anyone would think the SDA church would be exempt...unless someone had the idea that SDA members were perfect. The church is still a hospital for sinners; we go there because we know we are sick and in need of a divine Physician. The prescription for our healing is "Not I, but Christ", and the "Not I" is the hard part. Sinners struggle with that one...and yes, ministers and other leaders are sinners, too, even though we'd like to think otherwise. The Holy Spirit's work of healing is done only as fast as we permit (submit) on a daily, hourly, minutely basis. The sanctuary and temple is a symbol of our "temple" (body) where the Holy Spirit dwells when we accept Jesus Christ. There is no backdoor in the Most Holy Place (our conscience) where the Holy Spirit dwells in us. He must go through the Holy Place (the decision-making part of our brain) before the results show in the Outer Court (our actions visible to all.) In other words, our behavior (including what happens in our homes) can only be controlled by the Holy Spirit when the prompting of our consciences influences our choices. Unfortunately, even "seasoned" Christians don't always get it right.

Yes, domestic violence and abuse needs to be recognized for what it is and dealt with...in love, rather than criticism; in help and support, rather than stone-throwing. And maybe that is the only difference between these events occurring "in the church" as opposed to "outside the church".
Amish

Cameron, MO

#3 Oct 3, 2010
Lisa wrote:
"I believed that when the Bible said ‘submit’ to your husband, you should do as he wishes. So, I had to abort my first pregnancy."

Complete rubbish. The SDA do not support abortion. Okay?

What is your point anyway? Without a named subject and specifics it amounts to false accusations and rummors.
Amish

Cameron, MO

#6 Oct 3, 2010
Feminism is rampant in society today, including among Christian women. All the feminist propaganda posts claiming abuse are from some women who would use the court system to control men in an unbiblical adultress affair with the government (i.e. satanic witchcraft) to manipulate the relationship using threats of legal actions.

Claiming real physical abuse has anything to do with all the feminist 'abuse' propaganda has no credibility. The women in that very real situation do not need to be told how to use a telephone or seek help.

Beginning with the innocent claims of educating the women, the real aim of the social-engineers was to get women out of the house into work, for several reasons. Working women increases taxes for the government, lowers wages nationwide, and destroys families while reducing the population due to the women foregoing marriage to attend more school, not previously an option. Destroying families is a marxist stated aim from the manifesto. The feminist like the added options, whether they are biblical or not (God says to get married and have children). And apparently also like to use the courts alledging abuse to control the relationship (adultry with the government and false witnessing are grounds for divorce).

The solution I see is for our daughters to get married BEFORE any further education. A family business is always best but not always an option. It should still be possible for the women to work if that's what the couple decides.

Actually if we step back from the worldly ways we so often easily become envolved with and look at our actions what we may find is the woman often works with numerous other men. These men likely have other beliefs that are not biblical. As a relationship this becomes almost a second family. She is not only subject to the whims of her boss but also coworkers and every customer, not to mention travel to and from. This is exactly why the violent crime rape is such a problem in society, women and daughters away from their men, or choosing not to forego marriage.
Galatians3

Sydney, Australia

#7 Oct 3, 2010
transplanted fireweed wrote:
<quoted text>
The devil is alive and well...yes, even in the SDA church! I have no idea why anyone would think the SDA church would be exempt...unless someone had the idea that SDA members were perfect. The church is still a hospital for sinners; we go there because we know we are sick and in need of a divine Physician. The prescription for our healing is "Not I, but Christ", and the "Not I" is the hard part. Sinners struggle with that one...and yes, ministers and other leaders are sinners, too, even though we'd like to think otherwise. The Holy Spirit's work of healing is done only as fast as we permit (submit) on a daily, hourly, minutely basis. The sanctuary and temple is a symbol of our "temple" (body) where the Holy Spirit dwells when we accept Jesus Christ. There is no backdoor in the Most Holy Place (our conscience) where the Holy Spirit dwells in us. He must go through the Holy Place (the decision-making part of our brain) before the results show in the Outer Court (our actions visible to all.) In other words, our behavior (including what happens in our homes) can only be controlled by the Holy Spirit when the prompting of our consciences influences our choices. Unfortunately, even "seasoned" Christians don't always get it right.
Yes, domestic violence and abuse needs to be recognized for what it is and dealt with...in love, rather than criticism; in help and support, rather than stone-throwing. And maybe that is the only difference between these events occurring "in the church" as opposed to "outside the church".
Child sexual abuse is one of the most evil and demonic acts in the universe. And knowing it's widespread in the SDA is shocking.
transplanted fireweed

Benson, AZ

#8 Oct 3, 2010
Amish wrote:
Feminism is rampant in society today, including among Christian women. All the feminist propaganda posts claiming abuse are from some women who would use the court system to control men in an unbiblical adultress affair with the government (i.e. satanic witchcraft) to manipulate the relationship using threats of legal actions.
Claiming real physical abuse has anything to do with all the feminist 'abuse' propaganda has no credibility. The women in that very real situation do not need to be told how to use a telephone or seek help.
Beginning with the innocent claims of educating the women, the real aim of the social-engineers was to get women out of the house into work, for several reasons. Working women increases taxes for the government, lowers wages nationwide, and destroys families while reducing the population due to the women foregoing marriage to attend more school, not previously an option. Destroying families is a marxist stated aim from the manifesto. The feminist like the added options, whether they are biblical or not (God says to get married and have children). And apparently also like to use the courts alledging abuse to control the relationship (adultry with the government and false witnessing are grounds for divorce).
The solution I see is for our daughters to get married BEFORE any further education. A family business is always best but not always an option. It should still be possible for the women to work if that's what the couple decides.
Actually if we step back from the worldly ways we so often easily become envolved with and look at our actions what we may find is the woman often works with numerous other men. These men likely have other beliefs that are not biblical. As a relationship this becomes almost a second family. She is not only subject to the whims of her boss but also coworkers and every customer, not to mention travel to and from. This is exactly why the violent crime rape is such a problem in society, women and daughters away from their men, or choosing not to forego marriage.
I'm sorry, but I disagree with most of your comments. Domestic abuse has nothing to do with "feminism". "Feminism" is the state of being female...God created females. Any abuse, regardless where it happens and who causes it, is the result of sin. The problem here is SIN. It's not because females go to work at various jobs, have bosses and coworkers and deal with customers. It's not because women are educated, can be self-sufficient and independent. It's not even because they may choose not to get married or have children. The apostle Paul, in fact, states that "singleness" is preferred considering the condition of the world even in his time. Your "solution" of marrying off girls before they go to school is child abuse. That attitude is not a solution; it's part of the problem.
transplanted fireweed

Benson, AZ

#9 Oct 3, 2010
Galatians3 wrote:
<quoted text>
Child sexual abuse is one of the most evil and demonic acts in the universe. And knowing it's widespread in the SDA is shocking.
As I said, the devil is alive and well...and guess who he targets the most! He doesn't have to "work on" those he already has firmly in his control; it's the ones who have dared to TRY to break away from his control. Unfortunately, Christians who are TRYING to "be good" by screwing up their willpower are most vulnerable. Only as we daily, hourly, minutely chose to surrender our wills to the control of the Holy Spirit are we able to say, "There, but for the grace of God, go I." Don't be shocked; be part of the solution: preach Jesus Christ and his righteousness by faith. It's the ONLY solution!
Koala

Ashfield, Australia

#10 Oct 3, 2010
Amish wrote:
Feminism is rampant in society today, including among Christian women. All the feminist propaganda posts claiming abuse are from some women who would use the court system to control men in an unbiblical adultress affair with the government (i.e. satanic witchcraft) to manipulate the relationship using threats of legal actions.
Claiming real physical abuse has anything to do with all the feminist 'abuse' propaganda has no credibility. The women in that very real situation do not need to be told how to use a telephone or seek help.
Beginning with the innocent claims of educating the women, the real aim of the social-engineers was to get women out of the house into work, for several reasons. Working women increases taxes for the government, lowers wages nationwide, and destroys families while reducing the population due to the women foregoing marriage to attend more school, not previously an option. Destroying families is a marxist stated aim from the manifesto. The feminist like the added options, whether they are biblical or not (God says to get married and have children). And apparently also like to use the courts alledging abuse to control the relationship (adultry with the government and false witnessing are grounds for divorce).
The solution I see is for our daughters to get married BEFORE any further education. A family business is always best but not always an option. It should still be possible for the women to work if that's what the couple decides.
Actually if we step back from the worldly ways we so often easily become envolved with and look at our actions what we may find is the woman often works with numerous other men. These men likely have other beliefs that are not biblical. As a relationship this becomes almost a second family. She is not only subject to the whims of her boss but also coworkers and every customer, not to mention travel to and from. This is exactly why the violent crime rape is such a problem in society, women and daughters away from their men, or choosing not to forego marriage.
Great solution. Keep her barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, with no education. This encourages domestic violence.

I am not such a feminist that I can admit that domestic violence and rape are also men's problems, just to a lesser extent. But your ideas remind me of the Taliban.
Galatians3

Sydney, Australia

#11 Oct 3, 2010
transplanted fireweed wrote:
<quoted text>
As I said, the devil is alive and well...and guess who he targets the most! He doesn't have to "work on" those he already has firmly in his control; it's the ones who have dared to TRY to break away from his control. Unfortunately, Christians who are TRYING to "be good" by screwing up their willpower are most vulnerable. Only as we daily, hourly, minutely chose to surrender our wills to the control of the Holy Spirit are we able to say, "There, but for the grace of God, go I." Don't be shocked; be part of the solution: preach Jesus Christ and his righteousness by faith. It's the ONLY solution!
Adventists have rejected righteousness by faith. They believe in righteousness by Sabbath works.
Amish

Cameron, MO

#13 Oct 3, 2010
Koala wrote:
Great solution. Keep her barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen, with no education. This encourages domestic violence.
.
Really? And here I thought it would encourage healthy families as God intended.
Koala wrote:
I am not such a feminist that I can admit that domestic violence and rape are also men's problems, just to a lesser extent. But your ideas remind me of the Taliban.
.
Your comparisons are irrelevant. If you've studied what God's word says we can talk.

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#14 Oct 3, 2010
Galatians3 wrote:
<quoted text>
Child sexual abuse is one of the most evil and demonic acts in the universe. And knowing it's widespread in the SDA is shocking.
It is every where and worldwide. For you to think it is isolated to the SDA Church then you are narrow minded and it goes to prove that you are not for the victims but just out to get revenge on the SDA Church and on a lady who died in 1915. You are a spiritual and mental abuser yourself with all your evil postings you write to other on here.
LoveTruth

Sydney, Australia

#15 Oct 3, 2010
CINDERS wrote:
<quoted text>
It is every where and worldwide. For you to think it is isolated to the SDA Church then you are narrow minded and it goes to prove that you are not for the victims but just out to get revenge on the SDA Church and on a lady who died in 1915. You are a spiritual and mental abuser yourself with all your evil postings you write to other on here.
Here she goes again attacking everyone in sight! Hahahahaha What a joke you are!!! You are one pathetic LIAR!!! I dont believe a word you are saying, you belong to your father, Satan!
Koala

Canberra, Australia

#16 Oct 3, 2010
Amish wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Really? And here I thought it would encourage healthy families as God intended.
<quoted text>
.
Your comparisons are irrelevant. If you've studied what God's word says we can talk.
Hey, Talib! Why don't you study the Universal Declaration of Human Rights? You will never have healthy families, if the wife is treated like a dumb c**t.
Amish

Plattsburg, MO

#17 Oct 4, 2010
transplanted fireweed wrote:
I'm sorry, but I disagree with most of your comments. Domestic abuse has nothing to do with "feminism".
.
You are free to disagree. It depends on the abuse. If we are talking about actual violent abuse, that is one thing and not what I'm referring to, as pointed out in my comments which you quoted. But the police take calls for almost anything. Some Christian women would abuse the police abuse hotline for other lesser supposed abuses. Sometimes the police tell them there is nothing to it. Almost always somebody would have to leave. And so the instance arises that the man is correctly upset with the wife or daughter for whatever (dress), and the women claim this is abuse and call the police. No violence involved. This is an adultress act on her part by calling other men to attack her husband. If there is a marital disagreement consult with the pastor to resolve the situation.
v
transplanted fireweed wrote:
"Feminism" is the state of being female...God created females.
.
Feminine is the state of being female, feminist or feminism is a marxist political agenda to destroy the family, and create the socialist state.
http://en.wi kipedia[dot]org/wiki/Marxist_f eminism
www.socialistappeal[dot]org/fa q/feminism.html
Nice audio by an SDA Joelle McNulty on feminism ...
www.audioverse.org/topics/288/feminist-moveme...
transplanted fireweed wrote:
Any abuse, regardless where it happens and who causes it, is the result of sin. The problem here is SIN. It's not because females go to work at various jobs, have bosses and coworkers and deal with customers. It's not because women are educated, can be self-sufficient and independent. It's not even because they may choose not to get married or have children.
.
Do you know what further education is? Higher education is for adults. The young adult is to get married when they leave home, not enter into fornication. Therefore, getting married before any college is the only Christian thing to do.

We do not want to lose an entire generation of women to this false doctrine feminism but marxism is from Satan and is anti Christian in stated aims. The Christian women need to make their choice if they serve God or Satan. We can trace who Karl Marx worked for right back to Rome and the Jesuit's counter-reformation.

I'm not condemning anyone just pointing out claims of abuse by feminist to manupulate the relationship is not of God and amount to adultry when false accusations are made.
.
transplanted fireweed wrote:
The apostle Paul, in fact, states that "singleness" is preferred considering the condition of the world even in his time. Your "solution" of marrying off girls before they go to school is child abuse. That attitude is not a solution; it's part of the problem.
.
Being single when there are no other options is one thing but women choosing to stay single (due to feminist ambitions) when there are Christian men available is what creates the wicked society to begin with.
transplanted fireweed

Benson, AZ

#18 Oct 5, 2010
Galatians3 wrote:
<quoted text>
Adventists have rejected righteousness by faith. They believe in righteousness by Sabbath works.
I disagree! I know many Adventists who fully embrace righteousness by faith. As in everything else, I believe we need to be very careful of "generalizations". They are not only unfair; they are judgmental.
transplanted fireweed

Benson, AZ

#19 Oct 5, 2010
Amish, no doubt you mean well, but I don't find your lifestyle for women supported by scripture. And for some reason your solution to all the domestic abuse in the world falls on women. If they were dressed differently, taught to obey their husband without question, uneducated, controlled and programmed into domestic roles with little or no choice on their part, all would be well. Maybe your screen name has something to do with it? Are you truly "Amish"? If so, I can understand a bit better where you are coming from, but still I had no idea that Amish men felt so insecure and threatened by "feminism"...and you are right, "feminism" is "the belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes" and/or "the movement organized around this belief." I concede.

I don't know how many domestic violence cases you have personally witnessed in order to have formed your opinion that (and I quote from your comment) "...the police take calls for almost anything. Some Christian women would abuse the police abuse hotline for other lesser supposed abuses...This is an adultress act on her part by calling other men to attack her husband." Even if this were true, which I believe statistics prove is not true, do you really suppose that you can correct the situation by marrying these women off while they are still children, giving birth while they are still children, and trying to raise children while they are still children? Yes, I know what "further education" means, and in my opinion, unless you want your female child to be dependent on a male to provide her with food, clothing and shelter for the rest of her life (despite how he treats her), she NEEDS a college education. What happens if her husband gets killed or gets sick (even temporarily) or disabled and can no longer work, or if (not uncommon since not all men are as moral as you would seem to portray) he leaves her and her dependent children for a woman whose body hasn't birthed six or eight children in ten years, and whose mind had stopped being educated in elementary or middle school. Or are you suggesting that these child-brides would be able to get a college degree while looking after a household and having kids one right after the other?

I'm sorry, but I remain unconvinced. Education is as essential for women as for men...and needs to be at least mostly completed before any marriage relationship is contemplated. It seems to me that you seem to have it backwards: Marriage is for adults...education is for children....not the other way around.
Koala

Ashfield, Australia

#20 Oct 5, 2010
CINDERS wrote:
<quoted text>
It is every where and worldwide. For you to think it is isolated to the SDA Church then you are narrow minded and it goes to prove that you are not for the victims but just out to get revenge on the SDA Church and on a lady who died in 1915. You are a spiritual and mental abuser yourself with all your evil postings you write to other on here.
He did not even mention EGW. But you just had to go on the attack, to defend someone who was not even being attacked. LOL! How pathetic.
Koala

Ashfield, Australia

#21 Oct 5, 2010
transplanted fireweed wrote:
Amish, no doubt you mean well, but I don't find your lifestyle for women supported by scripture. And for some reason your solution to all the domestic abuse in the world falls on women. If they were dressed differently, taught to obey their husband without question, uneducated, controlled and programmed into domestic roles with little or no choice on their part, all would be well. Maybe your screen name has something to do with it? Are you truly "Amish"? If so, I can understand a bit better where you are coming from, but still I had no idea that Amish men felt so insecure and threatened by "feminism"...and you are right, "feminism" is "the belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes" and/or "the movement organized around this belief." I concede.
I don't know how many domestic violence cases you have personally witnessed in order to have formed your opinion that (and I quote from your comment) "...the police take calls for almost anything. Some Christian women would abuse the police abuse hotline for other lesser supposed abuses...This is an adultress act on her part by calling other men to attack her husband." Even if this were true, which I believe statistics prove is not true, do you really suppose that you can correct the situation by marrying these women off while they are still children, giving birth while they are still children, and trying to raise children while they are still children? Yes, I know what "further education" means, and in my opinion, unless you want your female child to be dependent on a male to provide her with food, clothing and shelter for the rest of her life (despite how he treats her), she NEEDS a college education. What happens if her husband gets killed or gets sick (even temporarily) or disabled and can no longer work, or if (not uncommon since not all men are as moral as you would seem to portray) he leaves her and her dependent children for a woman whose body hasn't birthed six or eight children in ten years, and whose mind had stopped being educated in elementary or middle school. Or are you suggesting that these child-brides would be able to get a college degree while looking after a household and having kids one right after the other?
I'm sorry, but I remain unconvinced. Education is as essential for women as for men...and needs to be at least mostly completed before any marriage relationship is contemplated. It seems to me that you seem to have it backwards: Marriage is for adults...education is for children....not the other way around.
Beauty, TF! You sound like a sensible man, who is up with the 21st Century. Knowledge is power, regardless of gender.
David Koot

San Francisco, CA

#22 Oct 5, 2010
transplanted fireweed wrote:
Amish, no doubt you mean well, but I don't find your lifestyle for women supported by scripture. And for some reason your solution to all the domestic abuse in the world falls on women. If they were dressed differently, taught to obey their husband without question, uneducated, controlled and programmed into domestic roles with little or no choice on their part, all would be well. Maybe your screen name has something to do with it? Are you truly "Amish"? If so, I can understand a bit better where you are coming from, but still I had no idea that Amish men felt so insecure and threatened by "feminism"...and you are right, "feminism" is "the belief in the social, political, and economic equality of the sexes" and/or "the movement organized around this belief." I concede.
I don't know how many domestic violence cases you have personally witnessed in order to have formed your opinion that (and I quote from your comment) "...the police take calls for almost anything. Some Christian women would abuse the police abuse hotline for other lesser supposed abuses...This is an adultress act on her part by calling other men to attack her husband." Even if this were true, which I believe statistics prove is not true, do you really suppose that you can correct the situation by marrying these women off while they are still children, giving birth while they are still children, and trying to raise children while they are still children? Yes, I know what "further education" means, and in my opinion, unless you want your female child to be dependent on a male to provide her with food, clothing and shelter for the rest of her life (despite how he treats her), she NEEDS a college education. What happens if her husband gets killed or gets sick (even temporarily) or disabled and can no longer work, or if (not uncommon since not all men are as moral as you would seem to portray) he leaves her and her dependent children for a woman whose body hasn't birthed six or eight children in ten years, and whose mind had stopped being educated in elementary or middle school. Or are you suggesting that these child-brides would be able to get a college degree while looking after a household and having kids one right after the other?
I'm sorry, but I remain unconvinced. Education is as essential for women as for men...and needs to be at least mostly completed before any marriage relationship is contemplated. It seems to me that you seem to have it backwards: Marriage is for adults...education is for children....not the other way around.
Well said.
Amish

Plattsburg, MO

#23 Oct 5, 2010
transplanted fireweed wrote:
Amish, no doubt you mean well, but I don't find your lifestyle for women supported by scripture.
I'm sure you mean well also but the school provided sex-ed has been teaching the girls and their parents that basically family is a bad thing. And this is what you are repeating. They also teach abortion is a form of birth control which is provided at our expense. The alternative would be to teach Get Married. That's all that is needed. Then many would choose that option, just as teaching abortion is a sin many choose life.

According to the Bible marriage should happen when the young adults are ready to leave home. I don't have to quote that verse? So you and the others are wrong and scripture is final on when marriage should happen.

By telling the new adults not to get married or have children you must also support their fornication (dating)? And a few would work their way through college as a model (porn) which I hear pays well. Prostitution is legal in many western countries if that isn't enuff money. Isn't that why they go to college? I think statistics show some women do just that. These sex-addicted women would then be the reason for the high divorce rate? Most divorces are initiated by the women (70%).

Often if they do not get married when they are younger they never have a family at all, but are found later in life with cats.

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