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Since: Jun 12

Lebanon, PA

#1 Nov 28, 2012
Spiritualism

Birth of Modern Spiritualism

The modern spiritualist movement in the United States began in 1848, in Hydesville, New York in the home of John D. Fox and family.

A peddler reportedly had died in the house sometime earlier, and tenants prior to the occupancy of the Fox family had been repeatedly disturbed by strange sound of knocking, tapping, or rapping. Two teenage Fox girls, Margaret and Katie, initially were frightened by bedclothes being pulled off their bed, and chairs and tables being removed from their places by invisible hands. They overcame their fears and, somewhat emboldened, eventually managed to develop a code by which they communicated with this alleged “spirit”.

Vision - March 24, 1849

1. The phenomenon was satanic in origin.

Early Writings, page 86 paragraph 3

"I saw that the mysterious knocking in New York and other places was the power of Satan, and that such things would be more and more common, clothed in a religious garb so as to lull the deceived to greater security and to draw the minds of God's people, if possible, to those things and cause them to doubt the teaching and power of the Holy Ghost."

Darkness Before Dawn, page 19 paragraph 4

The mysterious rapping with which modern spiritualism began was not the result of human trickery or cunning, but was the direct work of evil angels, who thus introduced one of the most successful of soul-destroying delusions. Many will be ensnared through the belief that spiritualism is a merely human imposture; when brought face to face with manifestations which they cannot but regard as supernatural, they will be deceived, and will be led to accept them as the great power of God.

2. The phenomenon would spread widely and quickly.
3. The “rappings” though initially a secular phenomenon would soon also take on a life of their own in the world of religion.
4. Spiritualism would be linked with “mesmerism” or hypnotism.

Vision – August 24, 1850

1. No criticism would be brooked by the new religion.
2. Increase of satanic miracles.
3. Jesus miracles credited to spiritualism.
4. These miracles would become a major factor in the end-time scenario.

“Parable” Vision –“Train of Cars” Metaphor

I saw the rapidity with which this delusion was spreading. A train of cars was shown me, going with the speed of lightning. The angel bade me look carefully. I fixed my eyes upon the train. It seemed that the whole world was on board. Then he showed me the conductor, who looked like a stately fair person, whom all the passengers looked up to and reverenced. I was perplexed, and asked my attending angel who it was. Said he, It is Satan. He is the conductor in the form of an angel of light. He has taken the world captive. They are given over to strong delusions, to believe a lie that they may be damned. His agent, the next highest in order to him, is the engineer, and others of his agents are employed in different offices as he may need them, and they are all going with lightning speed to perdition.

Prophetic Scenario - Spiritualism

Marantha, Ellen G. White, page 190 paragraph 2

By the decree enforcing the institution of the papacy in violation of the law of God, our nation [the United States] will disconnect herself fully from righteousness. When Protestantism shall stretch her hand across the gulf to grasp the hand of the Roman power, when she shall reach over the abyss to clasp hands with spiritualism, when, under the influence of this threefold union, our country shall repudiate every principle of its Constitution as a Protestant and republican government, and shall make provision for the propagation of papal falsehoods and delusions, then we may know that the time has come for the marvelous working of Satan and that the end is near.

Since: Jun 12

Lebanon, PA

#2 Nov 28, 2012
The argument, in my opinion, is whether any statement in the writings of Ellen G. White on an evidentiary basis could be construed as prophetically fulfilled and thus exonerate her from accusation.

The uniqueness in doctrine “state of the dead”, vision, and prophetic implication in the context of support in historical proofs meet the criteria of such a fulfillment.
Rockroller

Yucaipa, CA

#3 Nov 28, 2012
vermknid wrote:
The argument, in my opinion, is whether any statement in the writings of Ellen G. White on an evidentiary basis could be construed as prophetically fulfilled and thus exonerate her from accusation.
The uniqueness in doctrine “state of the dead”, vision, and prophetic implication in the context of support in historical proofs meet the criteria of such a fulfillment.
LOL, I am laughing as to the content that you provided here. Sorry about that--but Satan has been alive and well ever since the creation of this world and there is NO SUCH THING as any modern type of spiritualism! Ever do a study on 'Hermie'(SP) who gave us the mythiology from over 6000 years? Just where do suppose the term "Gnosticism" came from? This is what Paul preached as it fully agrees with today's spiritualism of the Freemasons, to which both of the Whites were members of. This is the belief that the flesh is evil and the spirit is good. Thus by dying to the flesh you will always be good. The problemm with this, is that it works like a flashight producing light. You MUST have the case and bulb, and then you must supply the power, the batteries, to have a living light. Without either, there is no light. Same goes for the human--it is a living soul with both the flesh and breath of God. Take away either and you have a dead soul. Therefore, it is totally impossible to attempt to 'die daily' as Paul spoke about. When you are where I am, it is really a laughable lie that he told to pull one over on those who call themselves Christians!

There are so many books out on this subject today that prove beyond any reasonable doubt that Satan has used ALL man made religions, including spiritualism,(nothing but new age theology) to his use in an attempt to lead people to believe in Him as their god instead of the Creator God.
Rockroller

Yucaipa, CA

#4 Nov 28, 2012
Further: The belief EGW had about the Roman Catholics being the the wounded head of ONE of the SEVEN heads on the first beast of Rev. 13 did not come from her, but was the opinion of all protistants after Luther. Problem is, that wounded head is impossible for it to be the Catholics, as they never lost their way and right of worship even when MANY Popes had been kidnapped. Never was there a time that the right to worship for Catholics ever challenged--especially by any WAR!

The ONLY major realigious group that did lose their right to worship their way because of a war was the Jews. But then EGW didn't have all of the resourses we have today to see that those who now rule the world are the ones who make the money and in charge of it. Yes, the Jews.(Zionest Jews)

This makes what EGW wrote (as you provided) MUTE as she allowed herself to be given over to that voice in her head as did Paul, James (the brother of Jesus) and others without checking IF it agrees or not with the words of JEsus ONLY!
Rockroller

Yucaipa, CA

#5 Nov 28, 2012
Further still:

No the argument is not about ONE little bitty thing being found to be true, as Satan can and does creat circumstances to his benefit to dupe those who WANT (in their mind) her to be a true prophetess.

Take the shaking of the Adventist Church for an example. Clearly to me, the Adventists ARE right now that group called the Kingdom of Heaven as found in Matt. 25:1-13. I mean, they match every description and point in that prophecy! Therefore, because there will be a time for the split between the wise and foolish, that shaking could very well be this event. AND futher, from what she said that the "Straight Truth" is what would cause this shaking.

Ok, now define 'Straight Truth'! I would define it as ONLY the words of Jeus given to us by ONLY His eye and ear disciples, Matthew and John. Why? Because of John 14:26 and 17:17-22! Here we see that Jesus KNEW His words would be written down for those of us to read, understand and obey them, and that they would be correct in that the Holy Spirit would cause them to remember exactly what Jesus said. This did not apply to Paul, Luke or Mark and for that matter James and Jude.

See what I mean?

Since: Jun 12

Lebanon, PA

#6 Nov 28, 2012
I'm not sure where to even go with your rebuttal?

Seemingly no repudiation of the facts.

Other than to say that spiritualism existed before this incarnation, so it invalidates the claim of prophetic fulfillment.

Spiritualisms pre-existence was a given in the argument.

I could produce the historical evidence that validates the birth of spiritualism in the United States of America as to time and place. Though I'd question whether or not it'd help.

Since: Jun 12

Lebanon, PA

#7 Nov 28, 2012
No the argument is not about ONE little bitty thing being found to be true, as Satan can and does creat circumstances to his benefit to dupe those who WANT (in their mind) her to be a true prophetess.

I don't see your face on the wall at the GC like mine is! I had just about everything EGW wrote to inspect--did you? I was a died-in-the-wool believer of EGW until I finally did read all of the words she wrote and so many of them were outright lies, that now I have to laugh at myself at how stupid I was for even thinkiing that she was a true prophet.

Your turn young man! Show me ONE truth she wrote about end time prophecy? I dare you!
Rockroller

Yucaipa, CA

#8 Nov 28, 2012
vermknid wrote:
I'm not sure where to even go with your rebuttal?
Seemingly no repudiation of the facts.
Other than to say that spiritualism existed before this incarnation, so it invalidates the claim of prophetic fulfillment.
Spiritualisms pre-existence was a given in the argument.
I could produce the historical evidence that validates the birth of spiritualism in the United States of America as to time and place. Though I'd question whether or not it'd help.


Do you know anything about who, why, when and those who chose the symbol of the 'red cross'? How about those before Freemasionary? Ever heard of the escape from Scotland to the 'island' called "Mericas"? Know anything about who and why Washington DC was layed out? If you don't know about these issues, then you are WAY over you head about spiritualsim IN the United States.

Search YouTube one these issues. Find out who really runs the world today! Read the book called "A Trip Into The Supernatural" by Roger J. Morneau, and "The Beautiful Side of Evil" by Johanna Michaelsen. It appears you are way behind in the research department regarding spiritualism.

Not much else to say about this I guess. So was that your best shot?

Since: Jun 12

Lebanon, PA

#9 Nov 28, 2012
I wouldn't deem identifying one of the three protagonists in our end-time scenario as a "little bitty thing".

Since: Jun 12

Lebanon, PA

#10 Nov 28, 2012
Do you know anything about who, why, when and those who chose the symbol of the 'red cross'? How about those before Freemasionary? Ever heard of the escape from Scotland to the 'island' called "Mericas"? Know anything about who and why Washington DC was layed out? If you don't know about these issues, then you are WAY over you head about spiritualsim IN the United States.

Actually I do.

Since: Jun 12

Lebanon, PA

#11 Nov 28, 2012
Is that all you have in the way of rebuttal?
Rockroller

Yucaipa, CA

#12 Nov 28, 2012
vermknid wrote:
Is that all you have in the way of rebuttal?
Rebuttal of what per se? You wrote one of three protagonists--do you mean EGW? If so, who are the other 2? And just what is the importance of EGW's writings is it, in order to fully know the truth regarding salvation and end time events?

This debate was over my dare to have you or anyone show me ONE thing that EGW prophesied about was truth. So far, you have not done this. Right? What is it about her views and writings about spiritualism that stand out as importance to you? Clearly, she was fully involved in spiritualism, just as all of those found in the Acts 2 event, which I seriously doubt ever happened--like Luke told it.

She prophesied about a National Sunday Law, because at that time there were some local sunday laws in the area that she lived in. But this has not and never will happen and it clearly is NOT one of the signs of the end.

Going back to what you wrote about the Church holding hands with the Catholics--heck, that has been going on ever since King James authorized the revised translation of the bible to suit his evil mind!

So come on now, give me something solid to rebut! So far, what you have provided is nonsense.
Rockroller

Yucaipa, CA

#13 Nov 28, 2012
Here is the thing Vermi, there is absolutly NOTHING you can dish out that EGW prophesied about that HAS come true!

Take where EGW said she had vision of the closed door policy. Did that prophecy come true? Of course not! So give me ONE good reason to even think to believe anything she ever wrote! Please, I am waiting for that ONE good piece of food. Show me, don't just tell me!

Come on, you got your "Mt. Carmal", now go for it!

Since: Jun 12

Lebanon, PA

#14 Nov 28, 2012
For someone who stated, "I had just about everything EGW wrote to inspect--did you? I was a died-in-the-wool believer of EGW until I finally did read all of the words she wrote and so many of them were outright lies, that now I have to laugh at myself at how stupid I was for even thinkiing that she was a true prophet.", I thought you'd be familiar with the material and its implication.

Clearly you were given too much credit.

Ellen G. White's identification of this incarnation of spiritualism, its origins, nature, growth, and involvement in seventh-day adventist eschatology, in the context of being historically validated and vindicating her as being a false prophet.

Since: Jun 12

Lebanon, PA

#15 Nov 28, 2012
Is anyone else observing the conversation? Am I speaking gibberish and no one else understands what I'm saying? Seemingly were having two different conversations?
Rockroller

Yucaipa, CA

#16 Nov 28, 2012
vermknid wrote:
For someone who stated, "I had just about everything EGW wrote to inspect--did you? I was a died-in-the-wool believer of EGW until I finally did read all of the words she wrote and so many of them were outright lies, that now I have to laugh at myself at how stupid I was for even thinkiing that she was a true prophet.", I thought you'd be familiar with the material and its implication.
Clearly you were given too much credit.
Ellen G. White's identification of this incarnation of spiritualism, its origins, nature, growth, and involvement in seventh-day adventist eschatology, in the context of being historically validated and vindicating her as being a false prophet.
Hmmm? The pot calling the kettle black I see.

EGW did NOT (let me repeat that) Did NOT prophesy anything meaningful about spiritualism because SHE herself was involved in it! Please read the NEWS PAPERS about her and those who were arrested for the spiritualism acts going on in a house prior to her being married to James White.

Later, she attempted to throw a red herring into this evil trail to cloud the truth regarding her involvment. They all were wanting an outpouring of the holy spirit, but got the outpouring of the evil spirit instead.

What she wrote much later about spiritualism, the information given to her by who she thought was 'God', was an effort by Satan to show that satanism was evil, when the truth is, that satanism MUST look and feel like the real truth for it to ever deceive anyone--such as you Vermi.

So move on because your meek attempt to show that what she prophesied came true is extreemly poor and done without any merit at all on your part.

Since: Jun 12

Lebanon, PA

#17 Nov 28, 2012
Resorting to name calling ... how original.

Since: Jun 12

Lebanon, PA

#18 Nov 28, 2012
We'll have to agree to disagree.

Since: Jun 12

Lebanon, PA

#20 Nov 28, 2012
A final thought, if anyone reads and comprehends the opening post and the subsequent debate by all means post your impression.

Thanks

Vermicious Knid
Rockroller

Yucaipa, CA

#21 Nov 28, 2012
NO, I do not agree to disagree, as that would be something that Satan would want! I NEED to be shown the real truth and so do those who read the words on this site.

If you refuse now, then we all will know that you have chosen to follow along with what Satan wants-confusion!

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