conservative movement-Is it hurting the adventist church

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Since: Oct 10

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#1
Oct 23, 2010
 
I am rather new here...So, If this subject has been brought up before, show me where, and I will add to that thread...
My purpose in asking this question is to assertain just how many conservatives and what kind of conservatives are here...
I have my opinion on this subject, to which I will come out and say rather bluntly, I am NO CONSERVATIVE.....
...and yet, I have some rather conservative thinking going on in my head...Afterall, I am an adventist, and that in itself speaks to some very noticed that there is some UBBER conservative adventist people...and some with some "weird" ideas..
Advenstism arose from some radical ideas, like all men, albeit white or black, are free people...And in an era that permisted slaves, it's no wonder that Adventism was not readily accepted in the southern states... We have a concept that doesn't allow for immediate rewards after death...contrary to those who love to talk up how Hitler has been agonising these last 60+ years
But now we have people within our church who, while perporting to emphasize the gospel, have instead emphasised law.....We have conspiracy theorists who are looking for the day when the govermenmt will take over daily life, and force Adventists to worship on Sunday rather than our Sabbath....Even have Adventists who are liberal in their theology, and radically ubber conservative in thier political views....[which begs the question-does our understanding of the gospel affect our view/values of politics].....

How do you see the conservative movement within the Adventist Church? Does conservatives affect the members to the point of in-activity? Does conservatives stiffle evangelism? Do conservatives inspire new thoughts on God?
Lay Worker

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#2
Oct 23, 2010
 
Admiral_d wrote:
I am rather new here...So, If this subject has been brought up before, show me where, and I will add to that thread...
My purpose in asking this question is to assertain just how many conservatives and what kind of conservatives are here...

I have my opinion on this subject, to which I will come out and say rather bluntly, I am NO CONSERVATIVE.....

...and yet, I have some rather conservative thinking going on in my head...Afterall, I am an adventist, and that in itself speaks to some very noticed that there is some UBBER conservative adventist people...and some with some "weird" ideas..

Advenstism arose from some radical ideas, like all men, albeit white or black, are free people...And in an era that permisted slaves, it's no wonder that Adventism was not readily accepted in the southern states... We have a concept that doesn't allow for immediate rewards after death...contrary to those who love to talk up how Hitler has been agonising these last 60+ years

But now we have people within our church who, while perporting to emphasize the gospel, have instead emphasised law.....We have conspiracy theorists who are looking for the day when the govermenmt will take over daily life, and force Adventists to worship on Sunday rather than our Sabbath....Even have Adventists who are liberal in their theology, and radically ubber conservative in thier political views....[which begs the question-does our understanding of the gospel affect our view/values of politics].....

How do you see the conservative movement within the Adventist Church? Does conservatives affect the members to the point of in-activity? Does conservatives stiffle evangelism? Do conservatives inspire new thoughts on God?
working on your next thesis?

Its not about conservative or liberal politics - its about apostasy, heresy in Adventism and as that led out by the ministerial assoc of SDA's of whom God calls dumb dogs which would not bark. Their efforts spawned the murk which is now a very dark hue but looked upon as lovely light! Such a murk creates the slew the abstract political illusions and thought.

So Admiral --
The question is if you are familiar with the Writings of Sr White :- which ship make the Harbor?

Since: Oct 10

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#3
Oct 24, 2010
 
Lay Worker wrote:
<quoted text>
working on your next thesis?
Its not about conservative or liberal politics - its about apostasy, heresy in Adventism and as that led out by the ministerial assoc of SDA's of whom God calls dumb dogs which would not bark. Their efforts spawned the murk which is now a very dark hue but looked upon as lovely light! Such a murk creates the slew the abstract political illusions and thought.
So Admiral --
The question is if you are familiar with the Writings of Sr White :- which ship make the Harbor?
1] You are more concerned about "Truth" rather than relationship?
I am reminded of 2 things....the devil knows more about truth than we could ever know....and it's not what you know, but Who you know that gets you into heaven....
2]EGW was fine, but remember, she claimed to be the lessor light. pointing to the greater light....I believe that she was pointing to the bible when she made that figurative statement....
Lay Worker

Oakland, CA

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#4
Oct 24, 2010
 
Admiral_d wrote:
<quoted text>
1] You are more concerned about "Truth" rather than relationship?
I am reminded of 2 things....the devil knows more about truth than we could ever know....and it's not what you know, but Who you know that gets you into heaven....
2]EGW was fine, but remember, she claimed to be the lessor light. pointing to the greater light....I believe that she was pointing to the bible when she made that figurative statement....
Prove for us here that truth is not a relationship to sanctification.

EGW said 'But God will have a people upon the earth to maintain the Bible, and the Bible only, as the standard of all doctrines and the basis of all reforms. The opinions of learned men, the deductions of science, the creeds or decisions of ecclesiastical councils, as numerous and discordant as are the churches which they represent, the voice of the majorityŚnot one nor all of these should be regarded as evidence for or against any point of religious faith. Before accepting any doctrine or precept, we should demand a plain "Thus saith the Lord" in its support.-

not political meanderings as you asserted in #1

Since: Oct 10

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#5
Oct 24, 2010
 
Lay Worker wrote:
<quoted text>
Prove for us here that truth is not a relationship to sanctification.
Boy, talk about your being conservative...

I just gave evidence that it's not WHAT you know, it's WHO you know....If you don't know Jesus, then it matters not if you are the kindest, most generous despot in the world....
Look, I agree that sanctification/character building is a good thing...but it can get in the way of relationships very easily...Are you sure that being vegetarian is a good thing when you are among redneck cowboys who like thier meat and potatoes? Listen carefully, Tufoboy, you too can be characterised as a bland and tastless person with no meaning in life..[this MAY BE the characterizaton that follows any 'sanctifed adventist/christian']
at least, none to the redneck cowboys.......
Lay Worker wrote:
<quoted text>
EGW said 'But God will have a people upon the earth to maintain the Bible, and the Bible only, as the standard of all doctrines and the basis of all reforms. The opinions of learned men, the deductions of science, the creeds or decisions of ecclesiastical councils, as numerous and discordant as are the churches which they represent, the voice of the majorityŚnot one nor all of these should be regarded as evidence for or against any point of religious faith. Before accepting any doctrine or precept, we should demand a plain "Thus saith the Lord" in its support.-
not political meanderings as you asserted in #1
And what has that position done for us in North America?
Just how close to that "thus saith the Lord" do we need in everyday life? I would submit to you that our conservatism has stiffled our creativity...and we have not been able to complete the great commission because we have been too worried about violating some commandment or health priniciple...Our focus is NOT on building relationships and leading to Christ...It has been about our fear of violating the Commandments of God....What we don't realize is that love fulfills that very law...building friendships that lead to friendships in heaven is more important than violating laws....
Lay Worker

Oakland, CA

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#6
Oct 24, 2010
 
If you KNEW Him - His words are life, not liberal or conservative illusions.

These relationship ideas [your erv gospel emphasis] hail from Vat II. ou can visit any deniminational church and hear the same treatise every Sunday.

Besides its God's initiative not yours.
Your illusion to vegelinks is asinine. To offer this indicates You have little depth.

The Admiral has been quite asleep in the pews on Sabbath in the NAD to not have heard one sermon about relationships. Oh come on, give us a break. These comments of yours are of the intemperate ecumenist and for you to so comment retains the murk of a veritable liar?

Try your dialectic techniques somewhere else.

Since: Oct 10

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#7
Oct 24, 2010
 
Lay Worker wrote:
If you KNEW Him - His words are life, not liberal or conservative illusions.
These relationship ideas [your erv gospel emphasis] hail from Vat II. ou can visit any deniminational church and hear the same treatise every Sunday.
Besides its God's initiative not yours.
Your illusion to vegelinks is asinine. To offer this indicates You have little depth.
The Admiral has been quite asleep in the pews on Sabbath in the NAD to not have heard one sermon about relationships. Oh come on, give us a break. These comments of yours are of the intemperate ecumenist and for you to so comment retains the murk of a veritable liar?
Try your dialectic techniques somewhere else.
hehehehehe.....Well, I suppose I have heard worse...

Okay, So I have been "asleep in the pews",...at least, I don't have the ulcers that you seem to have, along with your vindictiveness, worrying if I am 'saved' or not...At least I am able to sleep in the arms of Jesus, resting in His merits....

But why is there this push for this type of 'sanctification"? Why is there this need to be 'pure' or have this 'pure religion' and this seeking out of 'heresy'? IOWs, why is there this need to look at ourselves when we can be bringing in others into the fold? where is this push coming from???

All we are asked to do is to be "ambassadors for Christ" and to be "witnesses for Christ"...And all we truely need to do is "Lift up Jesus"....so why the need to self examine? Why the need to focus on self, even our religious self?

It's all about Jesus,....isn't it?
Lay Worker

Garden Valley, CA

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#8
Oct 24, 2010
 
Admiral_d wrote:
<quoted text>
hehehehehe.....Well, I suppose I have heard worse...
Okay, So I have been "asleep in the pews",...at least, I don't have the ulcers that you seem to have, along with your vindictiveness, worrying if I am 'saved' or not...At least I am able to sleep in the arms of Jesus, resting in His merits....
But why is there this push for this type of 'sanctification"? Why is there this need to be 'pure' or have this 'pure religion' and this seeking out of 'heresy'? IOWs, why is there this need to look at ourselves when we can be bringing in others into the fold? where is this push coming from???
All we are asked to do is to be "ambassadors for Christ" and to be "witnesses for Christ"...And all we truely need to do is "Lift up Jesus"....so why the need to self examine? Why the need to focus on self, even our religious self?
It's all about Jesus,....isn't it?
FYI -- LW does not have any ulcers and LW does not suffer fools gladly

Jesus never spake the nonsense above


When the Admiral begins to UPLIFT Him who is our Great High Priest [nothing to do with liberal or conservative notions] the Admiral may rejoin the discussion - until then, the Admiral needs to homework about Hi marvellous ministration as High Priest and how this relates to the Everlasting Gospel and then may wish to comment how God resolves the sin problem in sinful flesh other than suffering us here by spilling these pages with virulent guile.

BTW The religious self -[aka self righteousness] must die. If you knew this you would have stated it more eloquently than proffering gibberish nonsense

Since: Dec 07

Melbourne, Australia

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#9
Oct 24, 2010
 
Is correctness in doctrine a prerequisite to acceptance by God?

Doug
Lay Worker

San Jose, CA

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#10
Oct 24, 2010
 
Doug Mason wrote:
Is correctness in doctrine a prerequisite to acceptance by God?
Doug
Is your denial of Christ, His Sabbath, and He, the Great High Priest, a requisite for acceptance by God?

Since: Dec 07

Melbourne, Australia

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#11
Oct 24, 2010
 
Lay Worker wrote:
<quoted text>
Is your denial of Christ, His Sabbath, and He, the Great High Priest, a requisite for acceptance by God?
Does the accuracy of my doctrinal understanding of Christ determine whether God loves me?

Does the accuracy of a Muslim's understanding of Jesus Christ determine whether God loves that person?

Who has the precisely correct and complete comprehension of Jesus/Yeshua/Joshua?

Does God reject me because I err in doctrine?

Who can say their doctrine contains no error, no room for growth?

Must I conform to someone else's determination what is orthodoxy before God loves me?

I certainly know that the Sabbath is completely confined to this earth. Since it cannot be observed by the inhabitants of other planets. Does God therefore not love them?

Doug
Lay Worker

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#12
Oct 24, 2010
 
Doug Mason wrote:
<quoted text>

Does the accuracy of my doctrinal understanding of Christ determine whether God loves me?

Does the accuracy of a Muslim's understanding of Jesus Christ determine whether God loves that person?
Who has the precisely correct and complete comprehension of Jesus/Yeshua/Joshua?
Does God reject me because I err in doctrine?

Who can say their doctrine contains no error, no room for growth?
Must I conform to someone else's determination what is orthodoxy before God loves me?


Doug
Doug

you have problems -

since you deny The Christ, He said something thats should startle you no one cometh the the Father but by Him.

Since: Oct 10

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#13
Oct 25, 2010
 
Lay Worker wrote:
<quoted text>
Doug
you have problems -
since you deny The Christ, He said something thats should startle you no one cometh the the Father but by Him.
How can one deny Christ by asking questions???
You jump to too many conclusions and refuse to answer hard but honest questions....
Thats kinda like getting a christmas present and throwing it away before you open it, because you are sure of what's inside it without ever checking....and in the process, you doubly insult the giver of the gift....EEEWwwwwwwww!

Since: Oct 10

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#14
Oct 25, 2010
 
Doug Mason wrote:
Is correctness in doctrine a prerequisite to acceptance by God?
Doug
I don't think so....I think that if a person moves toward God, God moves toward that person, no matter where he is in life...and I think that the continued relationship that ensues will improve over time and bring one closer yet....And who knows, maybe God will allow the person to recite all doctrines flawlessly with love....but more often than not, that person will have imperfections, like not being able to repeat the doctrines flawlessly, but having a largeness of love for other people....or maybe he will repeat the doctrines flawlessly, bur his love quotent is lacking for the job needed....[does this occur to anyone who has posted here so far???]:-)
Lay Worker

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#15
Oct 25, 2010
 
Admiral_d wrote:
<quoted text>
How can one deny Christ by asking questions???
You jump to too many conclusions and refuse to answer hard but honest questions....
Thats kinda like getting a christmas present and throwing it away before you open it, because you are sure of what's inside it without ever checking....and in the process, you doubly insult the giver of the gift....EEEWwwwwwwww!
when you have a chance to have read what Doug has stated on varius other threds you will be enhanced to be apprised of his regular denials you will begin to know why.

Doug insults the Giver of Life and is most assured in that ability - not LW

Since: Oct 10

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#16
Oct 25, 2010
 
Lay Worker wrote:
<quoted text>
when you have a chance to have read what Doug has stated on varius other threds you will be enhanced to be apprised of his regular denials you will begin to know why.
Doug insults the Giver of Life and is most assured in that ability - not LW
you know, you really need to stay on topic and not bring the conversations of other threads into this one....You just might give him the benefit of the doubt.....and move the man a bit toward your pov....instead of berating the man....

And for your information, what you are doing is considered against internet ettiquette....Just thought you might want to know...'cause if them heathens act more civil than the God's chosen,...well, we wouldn't want the world to know that we arent reflecting God's goodness....right?

Since: Dec 07

Melbourne, Australia

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#17
Oct 27, 2010
 
LW,

I asked whether God requires precision in doctrine before he loves.

I expected a response to the question that would cause a person to think deeply on their perception of God.

From your response, I assume your God is very judgmental and legalistic. My image of God is One who made the requirement for restoration of harmony with him and at the same time he provided the solution. To me, that solution is available by asking, not by my parading my theology, eschatology, doctrinal accuracy, good works, or any other discipline.

My God is able, willing and keen to offer restitution as a free gift because it took the ultimate price.

This does not mean that I must lock my enquiring mind in a bag. It does not mean that I should not ask serious and meaningful questions.

Neither does it mean that any one of us has to agree in our understanding of God, yet we can ever remain friends and friendly, especially when we have differing views.

How else can we grow unless we ask questions of ourselves? We can offer observations, thoughts and questions and others can use these to develop or to reject. That is the right available to each one of us, and we have to give others the same rights we expect to be extended to ourselves.

Demanded conformity to orthodoxy has resulted in more wars and deaths, which does not reflect my understanding of what constitutes my God.

Doug

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