The 24 Elders of Revelations
Lay Worker

Perth, Australia

#165 Jun 22, 2012
Rockroller wrote:
<quoted text>

Paul's gospel was the one he made up
called Paul's gospel of the cross.
Prove it.
Stuff

Toronto, Canada

#166 Jun 22, 2012
Mr_Know it all wrote:
<quoted text>
Stuff, Stuff, Stuff,
Why do you insist on embarassing yourself? But since you have insisted on continuing in this humiliating situation you now find yourself in...... I will ablige you.
Let me point out these glaring gaps in your naive theological understanding of the 24 Elders of Revelation.
You have yet to present any legitimate evidence that angels are ever called Elders.
You have yet to present any scriptures that ever show "ANGELS" sitting on thrones and wearing crowns. F.Y.I, this promise had alway been given to mankind. Rev.3:21 "To him that overcometh will I GRANT to sit in my throne", Rev. 2:10 "faithful unto death and I will give you a crown of life"
You have yet to show anywhere in scriptures that states that ANGELS did or shall ever reign with Christ.
The facts of the matter is this.... you can't present the scriptural evidences, for it simply doesn't exist.
I'm afraid your entire premise is a FRAUD and cannot be reconcile with rest of scriptures.
Ellen White was a fraud. Everybody knows that!
Stuff

Toronto, Canada

#167 Jun 22, 2012
Lysimachus wrote:
<quoted text>
They just won't give up will they? Lol How much does it take you think Mr_Know it all? Do you think there is any hope?
Are you mentally challenged?
Rockroller

Yucaipa, CA

#168 Jun 22, 2012
Lay Worker wrote:
<quoted text>
Prove it.
Read what Paul admitted, are you posting on this thread and you do NOT know what Paul wrote? Huh?
Lay Worker

Perth, Australia

#169 Jun 22, 2012
Rockroller wrote:
<quoted text> Read what Paul admitted, are you posting on this thread and you do NOT know what Paul wrote? Huh?
The Rockafella is theologically challenged - and cannot prove it!

The readers expected this
birdman

Arthur, IL

#170 Jun 23, 2012
Rockroller wrote:
<quoted text> Where do you find "The gospel of God"? Jesus came to this earth to teach the gospel of the Kingdom of God". Paul's gospel was the one he made up called Paul's gospel of the cross.
What a bunch of GARBAGE HERE.

NO BIBLICAL PROOF AT ALL!
Rockroller

Yucaipa, CA

#171 Jun 23, 2012
Lay Worker wrote:
<quoted text>
The Rockafella is theologically challenged - and cannot prove it!
The readers expected this
Did Paul teach lawlessness for the Gentiles and the oppostite fot the Jews? Did Paul say that the law was a curse? Did Paul say that all of those who keep the law are cursed? Did Paul say that Jesus was cursed? Well, didn't he?
Stuff

Toronto, Canada

#172 Jun 23, 2012
Rockroller wrote:
<quoted text> Did Paul teach lawlessness for the Gentiles and the oppostite fot the Jews? Did Paul say that the law was a curse? Did Paul say that all of those who keep the law are cursed? Did Paul say that Jesus was cursed? Well, didn't he?
Demonic reasoning

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#173 Jun 23, 2012
Stuff wrote:
<quoted text>Demonic reasoning
Don't worry, you're in the same boat.
Rockroller

Yucaipa, CA

#174 Jun 23, 2012
Stuff wrote:
<quoted text>
Demonic reasoning
Well stuff, answer the quetions IF you can. Don't just look stupid by calling my words were from Satan. What you wrote are clearly false testimony, and you will be held accountable for that. Now go and sin no more.
Stuff

Toronto, Canada

#175 Jun 24, 2012
Lysimachus wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't worry, you're in the same boat.
And you're drifting out to sea with ELLEN at your wheel.
Lay Worker

Perth, Australia

#176 Jun 24, 2012
Rockroller wrote:
<quoted text> Paul's gospel was the one he made up called Paul's gospel of the cross.
Prove it.
Rockroller

Yucaipa, CA

#177 Jun 24, 2012
Lay Worker wrote:
<quoted text>
Prove it.
I don't have to as it's each one's own responsibility to do their own research on this issue. You can say "prove it" all you want and it will not change anything as the proof is in the 'pudding'. Do your own study on the Gospel Jesus gave called "The Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven" and then read what Paul says about HIS OWN gospel and then he curses everyone else for a different gospel--even the true disciples of Chrsit and angels from heaven.

Jesus said there are two things one MUST do to be in the Kingdom of God and that is to keep all of the ten commandmdnts and follow ONLY the words of Jesus. That's the gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven.

Paul taught lawlessness in that one is cursed for keeping the ten commandments because works will never save anyone. His mistaken theory is the God is love (his type of love as found in 1Cor. 13,) and that this love will save anyone who simple believes they are saved by grace through their faith in Christ's righteousness.

Do you agree or not? If not, why?
Marlon

South Bend, IN

#179 Jan 3, 2013
The truth about "the 24 elders" Who Are They Not?
Rev 5:8-10 (King James Version)
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odors, which are the prayers of saints.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
A simple fact to understand:
In verse eight we are told who is singing the new song. If you read carefully, you will see that it is the “four beasts”(Angels) and the “24 elders”(the group in question) who sing this song. Verse nine says that “they”(four beasts and 24 elders) sung a new song. If this is true, then the part in the “king James bible” where it says “…and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;” cannot be true. This is because the four living creatures could not be redeemed by Jesus since they have never sinned (the redemption of Jesus is only for the fallen human race). According to the context shown, the two groups can’t sing the same song in first person if it can’t be applied to one of them, but they could sing it in third person if it’s about someone else.
Then the question arises:
How do we explain this apparent problem?
Simple, the Greek translation for the book of revelation only in the case of the bible versions including “King James, and New King James” do not use a strong Greek copy that would support the context of the verses in question. The phrase in verse nine “…has redeemed us to God…” does not appear in first person in other Bible versions, in fact it's left out in the open. The Greek word for “redeemed”(&#275;gorasas) really means “to buy’ or “to purchase”, but it’s translated “redeemed” because this buying or purchasing by the blood of Jesus has the purpose of redemption, so it works also. The problem is with the Greek word “hEmas” which means “us”. This word should not appear in this verse because it goes against the context given. Such is the case for the KJV (which has the word), but there are other Greek scrolls that don’t contain the word “hEmas”. The phrase should read:“…with your blood you purchased for God…” and not “…and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood…”.
But what about verse 10?
Let’s see, verse ten says - KJV.[And hast made “us - autous” unto our God kings and priests: and “we shall reign - basileusousin” on the earth.](Emphasis added). The word “autous” for “us” is always used in the bible in the third person (Mat 10:26, Luk 24:51, Joh 1:38 to name a few), however, it has an exception rule which indicates that if the immediate before context is spoken in a specific person (first person or third person), then the word “autous” must follow the same path as well so it can make sense. This is why the king James version translates it as “us” instead of “them”. Now the word “basileusousin” doesn’t have such rule so it must always be translated in the third person, in fact this word appears three other times in the bible and they are always in third person (Rom 5:17, Rev 20:6, and Rev 22:5).
Bible versions such as KJV translate this word “basileusousin” in first person in spite of its grammar because otherwise the whole thing would contradict itself. It would read something like this:
“10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and THEY shall reign on the earth.”(Emphasis added).
How can we proof all of this information?
By carefully studying at the Greek grammar and the context of the text itself which means you must go back to verse 8 of revelation 5 to determine who are singing this new song.
Conclusion –
Who are the 24 Elders not?
They are not human beings as the popular believe think it is.
God Bless.
Lay Worker

Myrtleford, Australia

#180 Jan 4, 2013
Marlon wrote:
The truth about "the 24 elders" Who Are They Not?
Rev 5:8-10 (King James Version)

By carefully studying at the Greek grammar and the context of the text itself which means you must go back to verse 8 of revelation 5 to determine who are singing this new song.
Conclusion –
Who are the 24 Elders not?
They are not human beings as the popular believe think it is.
God Bless.
If the 24 presbuteroi are not; [ie., they who have been taken], the new song they sing with the 4 zoa holds no meaning to the context.

The 24 could not open the book, otherwise they would have; nevertheless, no man was found worthy to open, neither to look thereon.

The 24 would hold no concept of the depth of this new song in its relation to the Lambkin, the objective of the Everlasting Gospel and why no man could open the Book let alone appreciate why the Lambkin is 'worthy.'

The myriad of unfallen angels who join the chorus of the new song hold perfect reflection of their prior meeting.[Dan 7:9-10]. In Rev 5 they look in awe upon the Lamb as had been slain.
The myriad were called to give verdict of the Judgment of Him. Rev 14:7. Is it right for Heaven to allow fallen humanity to be once more a part of the heavenly hosts and redeem them, buy them back ?

He has a Book. TLBOL.

The new song heralds objective of the Gospel of God; He did no sin in fallen nature and as adversely as it is to the Evangelical mindset fallen humanity in its relation to the objective of the Agelong Gospel eternal from the Counsels of Peace must be invoked.

Thank God the Evangelicals are wrong!

The 24 & the myriad with loud voice in one accord ... say
"Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing"
Pioneer

Phoenix, AZ

#181 Jan 4, 2013
Lysimachus wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't worry, you're in the same boat.
Stuff wrote:
<quoted text>Demonic reasoning

Don't worry, you're in the same boat.

And so are you.
George Bush Jnr

Bolton, Canada

#182 Jan 6, 2013
Pioneer wrote:
<quoted text>
Stuff wrote:
<quoted text>Demonic reasoning
Don't worry, you're in the same boat.
And so are you.
Pioneer is a warthog. Everybody knows that.
Kingfisher

Gulf Breeze, FL

#183 Jan 6, 2013
The gospel (good news) of God the Father is found in Gen 3:15 and came to fruition in Luke 1:35.

The gospel (good news) of Jesus, the Son OF God the Father, was to look forward to the EARTHLY MILLENNIUM!

Read all about it in Rev 20! and the latter parts of Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel that we traditionally run away from under the guise of "conditionsal prophecies" per EGW!!
George Bush Jnr

Bolton, Canada

#184 Jan 6, 2013
Kingfisher wrote:
The gospel (good news) of God the Father is found in Gen 3:15 and came to fruition in Luke 1:35.
The gospel (good news) of Jesus, the Son OF God the Father, was to look forward to the EARTHLY MILLENNIUM!
Read all about it in Rev 20! and the latter parts of Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel that we traditionally run away from under the guise of "conditionsal prophecies" per EGW!!
The idea of an EARTHLY MILLENNIUM is like the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Read John 14 and you will understand.

Since: Jan 11

Jackson, TN

#185 Jan 12, 2013
Marlon wrote:
The truth about "the 24 elders" Who Are They Not?
Rev 5:8-10 (King James Version)
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
A simple fact to understand:
Then the question arises:
How do we explain this apparent problem?
But what about verse 10?
ible versions such as KJV translate this word “basileusousin” in first person in spite of its grammar because otherwise the whole thing would contradict itself. It would read something like this:
“10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and THEY shall reign on the earth.”(Emphasis added).
How can we proof all of this information?
By carefully studying at the Greek grammar and the context of the text itself which means you must go back to verse 8 of revelation 5 to determine who are singing this new song.
Conclusion –
Who are the 24 Elders not?
They are not human beings as the popular believe think it is.
God Bless.
Marlon my friend,

I'm afraid your conclusion has several fatal flaws in it.

It should've been pretty obvious that these 4 beasts of Revelation are never represented as having a victor's crown or seated on thrones as we His redeemed have been promised (Rev. 2:10, Rev. 3:21) and they therefore doesn't represent mankind.

Allowing the bible to explain itself by comparing scriptures with scriptures Rev.5:8 isn't an problem at all.

Isaiah 6:2 identifies these living creatures as "Seraphim" or 6 winged angelic creatures declaring God's Holiness vs. 3 Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord of Host. Rev. 4:8 reveals the similiarities of these creatures having 6 wings and also declaring God's Holiness.

Redeemed men are never literally described as having wings much less six wings. Phil. 3:21 tells us our glorified bodies shall be like Christ. "Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like His glorious body"

Ezekiel, Daniel and other scriptures previous mentioned these living creatures well before the appearance of the 24 Elders which are now present in John's vision of God's throne room.

In conclusion the 4 beast couldn't possibly have been redeemed humanity for only Enoch, Elijah and Mose was received into heaven. Other selective saints were not resurrected unto after the death and resurrection of Christ. Matt. 27:52,53

The 24 Elders are indeed make-up of redeem humanity.
This fact have yet to be disproven by scriptures.

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