Since: Jul 09

St. Paul

#1 Sep 22, 2012
"Adventists do not believe in an “Exclusive Forensic Justification”, but in an “Effective Forensic Justification”."

And for good reason; do a web search on the two sets of terms.

On the latter, I got one, outside of AA, hit:

"Do you mean to suggest or imply that forensic justification by faith alone is abstracted or isolated from regeneration by faith? Can a person be justified by a faith that is pure mental assent alone? Do you really want to forsake Luther and Calvin (especially Calvin’s very finely tuned soteriology) in their profoundly relational views of forensic justification? Are you aware that for these two Magisterial giants, justification was a legal, or forensic accomplishment that is only one of three important acts that are done by Christ and the Spirit when we are mystically united to Christ by faith?

Is it not true that they held that when believers receive Christ they receive Him as the (1) One who forgives past sins,(2) declares penitent sinners as right then and there perfect for Christ’s sake and that (3) He continues to provide them the benefits of the on-going regenerative work of the Holy Spirit which proceeds to sow the very character and love of Christ into the fabric of their characters? Do you really want to forsake these precious insights of both Luther and Calvin (which Hans LaRondelle has elegantly and comprehensively described as "effective forensic justification").14" from http://sdanet.org/atissue/doctrines/qod2007co...
Better stuff

Brampton, Canada

#2 Sep 22, 2012
djconklin wrote:
"Adventists do not believe in an “Exclusive Forensic Justification”, but in an “Effective Forensic Justification”."
And for good reason; do a web search on the two sets of terms.
On the latter, I got one, outside of AA, hit:
"Do you mean to suggest or imply that forensic justification by faith alone is abstracted or isolated from regeneration by faith? Can a person be justified by a faith that is pure mental assent alone? Do you really want to forsake Luther and Calvin (especially Calvin’s very finely tuned soteriology) in their profoundly relational views of forensic justification? Are you aware that for these two Magisterial giants, justification was a legal, or forensic accomplishment that is only one of three important acts that are done by Christ and the Spirit when we are mystically united to Christ by faith?
Is it not true that they held that when believers receive Christ they receive Him as the (1) One who forgives past sins,(2) declares penitent sinners as right then and there perfect for Christ’s sake and that (3) He continues to provide them the benefits of the on-going regenerative work of the Holy Spirit which proceeds to sow the very character and love of Christ into the fabric of their characters? Do you really want to forsake these precious insights of both Luther and Calvin (which Hans LaRondelle has elegantly and comprehensively described as "effective forensic justification").14" from http://sdanet.org/atissue/doctrines/qod2007co...
Conclusion

John 3:16

Since: Jul 09

St. Paul

#3 Sep 22, 2012
The previous was on page 12.

On page 13 it says:

"Effective Forensic Justification was made a church doctrine at the Council of Trent ..."

Kind of hard to believe when it came from Luther and Calvin. But, be that as it may be, why does Barky point to the RCC and not Luther and Calvin?

===

>"This Christ PLUS Justification amounts to a process called self-transcendence or DEIFICATION – becoming LIKE God!"

Hmmm, Barky shows that he doesn't know the Bible very well:

KJV Psalm 82:6 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.

KJV John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

KJV Hosea 1:10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

Aren't we called to be sons and daughters of the living God? When God says that does He mean that we'll be faking it? For trillions upon trillions of years?!? With God as your teacher, you'll STILL be the village idiot? Does that even begin to make sense?

Since: Jul 09

St. Paul

#4 Sep 23, 2012
On page 13 he also fakes a quote from EGW. The real is:

The Saviour took upon Himself the infirmities of humanity and lived a sinless life, that men might have no fear that because of the weakness of human nature they could not overcome. Christ came to make us “partakers of the divine nature,” and His life declares that humanity, combined with divinity, does not commit sin.{MH 180.5}

He has "humanity, combined with divinity, does not commit sin."

Since: Jul 09

St. Paul

#5 Sep 23, 2012
On the same page, he gives a partial quote. The real:

"Christ’s true followers will represent Him in character. They will turn aside from worldly policy, and every day will train themselves for service in God’s cause. In active service they find peace and hope, efficiency and power. They breathe the atmosphere of heaven, the only atmosphere in which the soul can truly live. By obedience they are made partakers of the divine nature. The doing of the living principles of God’s law makes them one with Christ; and because He lives, they will live also. At the last day He will raise them as a part of himself. He declares,“As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.”“This is the will of Him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on Him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.” Christ became one with us in order that we might become one with Him in divinity." {RH June 18, 1901, par. 7}

He only gives his readers the last sentence.

Since: Jul 09

St. Paul

#6 Sep 23, 2012
Same page he gives a sentence from GC (has the page wrong) and you'll see quickly why he didn't give the full paragraph:

"We are now living in the great day of atonement. In the typical service, while the high priest was making the atonement for Israel, all were required to afflict their souls by repentance of sin and humiliation before the Lord, lest they be cut off from among the people. In like manner, all who would have their names retained in the book of life should now, in the few remaining days of their probation, afflict their souls before God by sorrow for sin and true repentance. There must be deep, faithful searching of heart. The light, frivolous spirit indulged by so many professed Christians must be put away. There is earnest warfare before all who would subdue the evil tendencies that strive for the mastery. The work of preparation is an individual work. We are not saved in groups. The purity and devotion of one will not offset the want of these qualities in another. Though all nations are to pass in judgment before God, yet He will examine the case of each individual with as close and searching scrutiny as if there were not another being upon the earth. Everyone must be tested and found without spot or wrinkle or any such thing." {GC 489.3}

Since: Jul 09

St. Paul

#7 Sep 23, 2012
On the last line on the page and going over to page 14 he states that the implication of what was in the above posts is "Mankind according achieves the supernatural through the interior working of the "Triune Godhead", whereby mankind is adopted to become PART OF DEITY. That can NEVER happen!"

He does not explain why it can't happen. he certainly can't see what will become when we are translated, nor can he see a million, billion, or trillion years into the future.

Secondly, his implication is not a teaching in the SDA church.

Thirdly, as I've already noted he shows that he doesn't know the Bible.

Since: Jul 09

St. Paul

#8 Sep 23, 2012
On page 14 he cites for "the OFFICIAL SDA statement/belief:" [caps in the original], what he gives you is a quote from The Great Controversy!
Lay Worker

Jerilderie, Australia

#9 Sep 24, 2012
djconklin wrote:
On the last line on the page and going over to page 14 he states that the implication of what was in the above posts is "Mankind according achieves the supernatural through the interior working of the "Triune Godhead", whereby mankind is adopted to become PART OF DEITY. That can NEVER happen!"
He does not explain why it can't happen. he certainly can't see what will become when we are translated, nor can he see a million, billion, or trillion years into the future.
Secondly, his implication is not a teaching in the SDA church.
Thirdly, as I've already noted he shows that he doesn't know the Bible.
Papal
birdman

Charleston, IL

#10 Sep 24, 2012
Lay Worker wrote:
<quoted text>
Papal
Why?

PROOF?

Since: Jul 09

St. Paul

#11 Oct 5, 2012
Lost whopper agrees with Dr. Barky!
Better stuff

Brampton, Canada

#12 Oct 6, 2012
djconklin wrote:
Lost whopper agrees with Dr. Barky!
No different from EGG White.

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