The Sabbath does not start on friday night.

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Latoria

Shady Side, MD

#1 Jul 10, 2009
The bible says a new day starts and ends with sunlight and that the sabbaths ends on dawn Sunday morning. See for yourself:

Matthew 28:1
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Now go look up the word dawn in the dictionary. You'll see it means the first appearance of daylight in the morning, not night!

Therefore, the sabbath begins Saturday morning and ends Sunday morning.
Tony

Lambton, Australia

#2 Jul 10, 2009
Latoria wrote:
The bible says a new day starts and ends with sunlight and that the sabbaths ends on dawn Sunday morning. See for yourself:
Matthew 28:1
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Now go look up the word dawn in the dictionary. You'll see it means the first appearance of daylight in the morning, not night!
Therefore, the sabbath begins Saturday morning and ends Sunday morning.
Now can you back this up to make a solid arguement with the rest of the Bible?

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#3 Jul 10, 2009
Latoria wrote:
The bible says a new day starts and ends with sunlight and that the sabbaths ends on dawn Sunday morning. See for yourself:
Matthew 28:1
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Now go look up the word dawn in the dictionary. You'll see it means the first appearance of daylight in the morning, not night!
Therefore, the sabbath begins Saturday morning and ends Sunday morning.
I hadn't seen that before.
Does the author talk about it somewhere else in Matthew?
Latoria

Shady Side, MD

#4 Jul 10, 2009
Gunnar Bruun wrote:
<quoted text>
I hadn't seen that before.
Does the author talk about it somewhere else in Matthew?
I'm not sure.

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#5 Jul 10, 2009
Latoria wrote:
<quoted text>I'm not sure.
You made the statement above and now you are not sure? hmmm so does one believe what you have shared above on just that one verse alone or is there, as Tony has asked, is there other verses to back this one verse up?

Thanks :-)
Latoria

Shady Side, MD

#6 Jul 10, 2009
CINDERS wrote:
<quoted text>
You made the statement above and now you are not sure? hmmm so does one believe what you have shared above on just that one verse alone or is there, as Tony has asked, is there other verses to back this one verse up?
Thanks :-)
You need to pay attention and go back and read the context of the question i answered so YOU can see exactly what I said i wasn't sure of. I am sure a new day doesn't start at sundown....that scripture proves it.

Be slow to speak and quick to listen (and in your case be quick to READ)!

Since: May 08

Location hidden

#7 Jul 10, 2009
Latoria wrote:
<quoted text>You need to pay attention and go back and read the context of the question i answered so YOU can see exactly what I said i wasn't sure of. I am sure a new day doesn't start at sundown....that scripture proves it.
Be slow to speak and quick to listen (and in your case be quick to READ)!
You NEED to learn to back up what you have said and not go by one verse only !

So where is the rest of the back up verses to prove what you are saying is TRUTH!

Come on I am really interested to hear and learn.

For you started this thread SO CARRY IT THROUGH.

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#8 Jul 10, 2009
This would become a very interesting topic if there was more supporting evidence...

“Creation 7th Day Adventist”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#9 Jul 10, 2009
Well, that degraded fast.

Anyway... about that verse, Latoria. If you take a quick look at the Greek involved, you'll find that the word for "the end" means "after," and the word "toward" is the general preposition "Eis," meaning "into, to, unto," etc. For example, "Eis oikia" means "into the house."

The verse is saying, literally, "After the Sabbath, in the dawn of the first day of the week." Almost every version other than the KJV reads this way, using more modern English; including the NKJV, which reads as follows:

"Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb."

Even the NIV, which I usually find to be pretty biased, reads "After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb."

Then there's the NASB: "Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first {day} of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave."

And the list goes on. In other words, it was after the Sabbath because the Sabbath ended at sundown. The first day of the week began at sundown, but it was as it approached dawn on that first day that they came.

The basic issue with your reading there seems to be hinged in the word "end," which, albeit confusing in that particular English phrasing, is just the word "opse" in Greek, meaning after.

That's why, for example, a couple days earlier we read that the Jews were eager to get Christ off of the cross before sundown, lest He be hanging on the Sabbath day.

Hope that clarifies it for you.

- Qinael
www.csdachurch.co.cc
Cinders

Lambton, Australia

#10 Jul 10, 2009
Ce que je pense wrote:
This would become a very interesting topic if there was more supporting evidence...
Yes I agree :-)
Cinders

Lambton, Australia

#11 Jul 10, 2009
But there is NO supporting biblical evidence...

:-)
Latoria

Shady Side, MD

#12 Jul 10, 2009
Mark 15

42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,

43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.

Since: Mar 09

Palm Desert, CA

#13 Jul 10, 2009
Latoria wrote:
The bible says a new day starts and ends with sunlight and that the sabbaths ends on dawn Sunday morning. See for yourself:
Matthew 28:1
In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
Now go look up the word dawn in the dictionary. You'll see it means the first appearance of daylight in the morning, not night!
Therefore, the sabbath begins Saturday morning and ends Sunday morning.
You shall celebrate your sabbaths from evening to evening, that is, from sunset to sunset.

Mark 1: 31, "Now at evening, when the sun had set, they brought to Him all who were sick...."

Matt. 28: 1 is simply saying that the Sabbath was past. It is not telling us that the Sabbath ended at sunrise. Actually the resurrection of Christ took place some time before the sunrise. The narrative is saying the women came to the tomb about the time the sun was rising, but it is obvious that Jesus had already been raised by this time.

“Creation 7th Day Adventist”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#14 Jul 10, 2009
Latoria wrote:
Mark 15
42 And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath,
43 Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.
Similar to the last, a concordance proves helpful. Verses 34-36 show Christ dying at the ninth hour, which, according to Strong's: "the ninth hour corresponds to our 3 o'clock in the afternoon for the sixth hour of the Jews coincides with the twelfth of the day as divided by our method, and the first hour of the day is 6 A.M. to us."

The definition for the word "Even" in verse 42:

"a) either from three to six o'clock p.m.

b) from six o'clock p.m. to the beginning of night"

Obviously, from the weight of evidence in the rest of Scripture, the former of those two definitions is the one being used here.

Also, check out John's parallel account of your very first verse:

"The first [day] of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre." (John 20:1)

When it was yet dark, it was the first day of the week. That pretty much seals it, really. There's also the fact that there's no recorded change in Jewish Sabbath observance from the time of Christ until now - and they still, today, keep it from sundown to sundown, just as history testifies they always have. The argument would basically be that the Jews kept it right in Christ's time, but somewhere in the last 2000 years all decided world-wide to change it to sundown-sundown and not tell anyone or write it down anywhere.
Latoria

Shady Side, MD

#15 Jul 11, 2009
Quinel, here you said that Matt.28:1 is infering that Sunday (the first day of the week) begins at sundown:
Qinael wrote:
Then there's the NASB: "Now after the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first {day} of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to look at the grave."
And the list goes on. In other words, it was after the Sabbath because the Sabbath ended at sundown. The first day of the week began at sundown, but it was as it approached dawn on that first day that they came.
Then later on you quote John 20:1 as an attempt to further substiantiate your claim that Sunday began at evening/sundown.

Well if that's the case, why does several verses down of the same chapter of John 20 (verse 19 to be exact) mark the EVENING of the first day of the week:

"19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you."

Remember, verse 1 of that same chapter says this:

John 20
"1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."

It is not completely light at dawn. Therefore that is proof that a new day begins with the first appearance of light (dawn). Google some images of dawn and see what it looks like.

Each day must have a day and an evening. John 20:19 proves that the evening for the first day of the week came AFTER Mary came EARLY in the morning of the first day of the week.

Therefore, the morning for the first day of the week came FIRST and then verse 19 of John 20 says the evening came LATER.
Latoria

Shady Side, MD

#16 Jul 11, 2009
Matt.28:1 needs no round about interpretation, it speaks for itself.

The sabbath ends when it begins to dawn toward DAYLIGHT of Sunday morning. Period:

Matthew 28
"1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Therefore, a new day begins at dawn.

“Creation 7th Day Adventist”

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#17 Jul 11, 2009
Because, just as it's not always light at down, the sun has not always set at "evening." The word in verse 19 is the same as the one I pasted you the definition of earlier, meaning anywhere from 3 pm to sundown, the actual end of the day. In other words, they came before the sun rose on Sunday morning when it was yet dark, and then met together near the end of the same day before the sun had set.

"It [shall be] unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth [day] of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath." (Leviticus 23:32)

If you want to cling to some obscure, unusual, and textually unsupportable reading of one or two verses to support your pet doctrine for whatever lamentable reasons, no one can will prevent you from doing so. I strongly suggest that you stop pretending to have any actual evidence for it, however - the Scriptures simply do not support such a notion, let alone history and common sense.

I believe I've said all that's valuable to say on this topic at the moment. I'd hoped you might have simply had a simple misunderstanding of a passage. It's apparent to me that you're simply clinging to a pet theory regardless of the tide of evidence to the contrary. I have no interest in nor time for such discussions.

- Qinael
www.csdachurch.co.cc

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#18 Jul 11, 2009
I am checking the literal translations, and they have it like this:

(YLT)
And on the eve of the sabbaths, at the dawn, toward the first of the sabbaths,...

(LITV)
But late in the sabbaths, at the dawning into the first of the sabbaths,...

It doesn't say "first of the week" "sunday morning" or anything like that. First of the sabbaths? What does that mean?

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#19 Jul 11, 2009
Qinael wrote:
If you want to cling to some obscure, unusual, and textually unsupportable reading of one or two verses to support your pet doctrine for whatever lamentable reasons, no one can will prevent you from doing so.
Are you blaming Latoria for taking a verse in the Bible literal?
Latoria

Shady Side, MD

#20 Jul 11, 2009
Qinael wrote:
"It [shall be] unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth [day] of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath." (Leviticus 23:32)
And that scripture you quoted above is only referring to that particular holyday sabbath presribed in that verse.

Notice it said your SABBATH and not your SABBATHS, as in plural. Nowhere does that scripture indicate that it is applicable to all sabbaths... and it is certaintly not applicable to the seventh day sabbath command. You need another scripture to support that pet doctrine of yours buddy.

I'm 100% confident that Jesus would've expressly commanded on the stones that his seventh day sabbath must be honored from evening unto evening just like he said not to work on the sabbath. Those stones contained all the instructions we need to adequately observe his seventh day sabbath.

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