A. F. Ballenger & Desmond Ford
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SDA

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#1 May 21, 2011
want to compare the history of what occured with A. F. Ballenger & the events with Desmond Ford. Lets start with Ford:

Desmond Ford was dismissed from the ministry in the Adventist church in 1980 following his critique of the church's investigative judgment teaching. Ford disagreed with many aspects of traditional Seventh-day Adventist eschatology or Adventist end-time beliefs. Ford believes that victory over sin or especially sinless perfectionism is not possible in this lifetime. Ford also does not believe in the traditionaly Seventh-day Adventist doctrine of the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary, or investigative judgment. Fords understanding of righteousness by faith was also a issue, in whether it included both justification and sanctification. Ford disagreed with mainstream Adventists who the claim was made, tended to place a greater emphasis on sanctification and Ford pushed the justification part as a basis for salvation. Thus in practical terms, man is saved through Justification and the ties to Sanctification are undone.

According to Anglican Geoffrey Paxton, during the 1960s scholars such as Desmond Ford embedded the concept of original sin into Seventh-day Adventist theology.
{See http://www.presenttruthmag.com/7dayadventist/... Pain and Progress: The 1960's]

In August 1980, Adventist theologians and administrators convened at Glacier View and examine Ford's views. Ford made the case that Ellen White's heavenly sanctuary explication of 1844 no longer stood up in the light of the Bible, and that 'investigative judgment' undercut the whole basis of Protestantism: belief in salvation by God's grace apart from good works. After counsel from the General Conference after Glacier View, the Australasian Division withdrew Ford's ministerial credentials.

Now lets go over the history of A. F. Ballenger:
SDA

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#2 May 21, 2011
A. F. Ballenger received his ministerial license from the SDA Church in 1885 and began to gain prominence in the late 1880s. In his late twenties, he was appointed the secretary of the National Religious Liberty Association. For a period, he was assistant editor of the American Sentinel. In these capacities he attended camp meetings and other important gatherings in nearly all the conferences in North America.

In 1897, Ballenger started the "Receive Ye the Holy Ghost" movement which helped inspire the Holy Flesh movement in the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Some claim that Ballenger was part of the growing sector of workers influenced by Kellogg’s views which made both God and His dwelling-place unreal, and his involvement in the movement seems to bear that out, but cannot be substantiated.

In January 1900, Ellen White received a vision about the Holy Flesh movement while in Australia. S. N. Haskell (1833–1922) and A. J. Breed were sent to the campmeeting at Muncie to meet this "fanaticism". At the 1901 General Conference Session, Ellen White criticized the Holy Flesh teachings as "error" on April 17 stating:

"The Holy Spirit never reveals Itself in such methods, in such a bedlam of noise. This is an invention of Satan to cover up his ingenious methods for making of none effect the pure, sincere, elevating, ennobling, sanctifying truth for this time. Better never have the worship of God blended with music than to use musical instruments to do the work which last January was represented to me would be brought into our camp meetings. The truth for this time needs nothing of this kind in its work of converting souls. A bedlam of noise shocks the senses and perverts that which if conducted aright might be a blessing. The powers of satanic agencies blend with the din and noise, to have a carnival, and this is termed the Holy Spirit's working. Regarding the Late Movement in Indiana" by Ellen White. General Conference Bulletin, April 23, 1901, p419–22. Republished Selected Messages vol. 2 (1958), chapter 3, "The 'Holy Flesh' Doctrine", p36.
SDA

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#3 May 21, 2011
Ellen White also came out against Ballenger's 'new light' on Universalism and beliefs on the heavenly sanctuary, and implied that satanic forces were directing the work against the Sanctuary.Ellen White, Special Testimonies, Series B, No. 7, p. 17 (1905)

Ballenger was sent our from the United States to work as a in England, Wales, and Ireland. While in the British Isles, he “first worked in several of the big English cities, then in Wales, and finally as president of the Irish Mission. Around this same time, Ballenger started teaching a “new theology” on salvation in Christ, and also that legal justification—universal forgiveness—has already been given to all men.

He then came out against the Adventist understanding of the Investigative Judgment and other traditional Adventist beliefs. By 1904 Ballenger had concluded that the atonement occurred at Christ's crucifixion and that He had entered the Most Holy Place at His ascension. This was contrary to the SDA doctrine which teaches that the atonement work continued in the heavenly sanctuary when Christ ascended to the Holy Place, and then in 1844, at the end of the prophetic period of 2300 days, Christ entered the enter the Most Holy Place.

Ballenger was called to clarify his views before the British Union Conference Committee sometime before the 1905 General Conference Session. After three hours of discussion with a special committee, his positions were rejected and the Conference relieved him of his post as president of the Irish Mission. Ballenger was then sent to the 36th General Conference Session held outside of Washington D. C. in Takoma Park, where the general leadership of the church could examine his views.
SDA

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#4 May 21, 2011
Ellen White had come from California especially for this Session. On May 18th she opened the meeting,“emphasizing the need of repentance and humiliation before God and one another.” She stated,“In this last day of the great Day of Atonement, it is time to make sure that every sin is confessed and forgiven.” The significance of this statement must have very clear to the leaders who would be discussing and examingin Ballenger’s theology. His views were examined for three days by a specially appointed committee, and they were rejected.

While attending this conference, Ellen White wrote in her diary, on May 20th:“Brother Ballenger is presenting theories that can not be substantiated by the Word of God. It will be one of the great evils that will come to our people to have the Scriptures taken out of their true place and so interpreted as to substantiate error that contradicts the light and the testimonies that God has been giving us for the past half century. I declare in the name of the Lord that the most dangerous heresies are seeking to find entrance among us as a people, and Elder Ballenger is making spoil of his own soul.... We must not give countenance to his reasoning. He is not led of God.”Ellen G. White, Diary, May 20th, 1905, MS-59-1905.

And she aslo wrote:
“In clear, plain language I am to say to those in attendance at this conference that Brother Ballenger has been allowing his mind to receive and believe specious error. He has been misinterpreting and misapplying the Scriptures upon which he has fastened his mind. He is building up theories that are not founded in truth."Ellen G. White, "A Warning Against False Theories," May
24th, 1905, MS-62, 1905.

At the end of the session, a general report was issued on June 1st, which in part, stated:“It is clear that the delegates to this conference do not look with favor upon any phase of the so-called ‘New Theology,’... it does forbid the acceptance of such interpretations of old truths as will make it impossible to distinguish between substance and shadow.... This message will not be corrupted by false teaching.... The third angel’s message will preserve its original individuality.... Some questions have been settled at this conference.”1905 General Conference Daily Bulletin, June 1st, 1905,
p. 3.
SDA

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#5 May 21, 2011
As a result of these meetings, Ballenger was finally removed from the ministry and eventually from the membership of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. Shortly after being disfellowshipped he wrote a book entitled Cast Out for the Cross of Christ, to explain why he was disfellowshipped and to further clarify his views. It was apparent that he rejected the idea of a literal sanctuary in heaven, and now made clear he believed that Christ had entered the Holiest of Holies (heaven itself) after His resurrection; he also modified how the type and anti-type fit together regarding the daily and yearly services, especially the Day of Atonement—all based on his concept of a universal atonement for all men.

It all sounds very familiar........
SDA

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#6 May 21, 2011
Four months later, Ellen White again wrote in her diary: “There are many today who present strange doctrines, giving the Scriptures a wrong meaning. Elder Ballenger thinks that he has new light, and is burdened to give it to the people; but the Lord has instructed me that he has misapplied the texts of Scripture, and given them a wrong application. The word of God is always the truth, but the doctrines that Elder Ballenger advances, if received, would unsettle our faith in the sanctuary question.”
Earthcaller

Palm Coast, FL

#7 May 21, 2011
Ballenger was correct on one point just as ML Andreasson was on the very same issue. That point concerns the following information.

ML Andreasson

6. "The blood of the sacrificial victim was not always carried into the holy place, there to be sprinkled before the veil. This, as has been noted before, was done only in the case of the anointed priest and of the whole congregation. Lev. 4:5, 6, 16, 17. When an ordinary person or a ruler sinned, the blood was sprinkled on the altar of burnt offering outside the tabernacle. and the flesh was eaten by the priests. Levi. 4:25, 34; 6:30." The Sanctuary Service, page 165, by M L. Andreasen. Prepared for the 1938 Ministerial Reading Course.

H
wensday

Mount Morris, MI

#8 May 21, 2011
Are you suggesting that AF Ballenger and ML Andreasson proved Ellen White wrong?
Earthcaller

Palm Coast, FL

#9 May 21, 2011
wensday wrote:
Are you suggesting that AF Ballenger and ML Andreasson proved Ellen White wrong?
No, I am suggesting that Ellen White was right, she stated that we should get our info from the Bible. So when Ballenger and ML Andreasson got it from the Bible they were right.
Robert Two

Adelaide, Australia

#10 May 22, 2011
SDA wrote:
want to compare the history of what occured with A. F. Ballenger & the events with Desmond Ford. Lets start with Ford:
Desmond Ford was dismissed from the ministry in the Adventist church in 1980 following his critique of the church's investigative judgment teaching. Ford disagreed with many aspects of traditional Seventh-day Adventist eschatology or Adventist end-time beliefs. Ford believes that victory over sin or especially sinless perfectionism is not possible in this lifetime. Ford also does not believe in the traditionaly Seventh-day Adventist doctrine of the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary, or investigative judgment. Fords understanding of righteousness by faith was also a issue, in whether it included both justification and sanctification. Ford disagreed with mainstream Adventists who the claim was made, tended to place a greater emphasis on sanctification and Ford pushed the justification part as a basis for salvation. Thus in practical terms, man is saved through Justification and the ties to Sanctification are undone.
According to Anglican Geoffrey Paxton, during the 1960s scholars such as Desmond Ford embedded the concept of original sin into Seventh-day Adventist theology.
{See http://www.presenttruthmag.com/7dayadventist/... Pain and Progress: The 1960's]
In August 1980, Adventist theologians and administrators convened at Glacier View and examine Ford's views. Ford made the case that Ellen White's heavenly sanctuary explication of 1844 no longer stood up in the light of the Bible, and that 'investigative judgment' undercut the whole basis of Protestantism: belief in salvation by God's grace apart from good works. After counsel from the General Conference after Glacier View, the Australasian Division withdrew Ford's ministerial credentials.
Now lets go over the history of A. F. Ballenger:
I actually went to see DRSMOND several times.
wensday

Mount Morris, MI

#11 May 22, 2011
Earthcaller wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I am suggesting that Ellen White was right, she stated that we should get our info from the Bible. So when Ballenger and ML Andreasson got it from the Bible they were right.
Then they proved her wrong. Thank you, very much.
wensday

Mount Morris, MI

#12 May 22, 2011
Robert Two wrote:
<quoted text> I actually went to see DRSMOND several times.
Because of him, SDA hardened their hearts even more and gave themselves over fully to the voice of Ellen White.

I have read something about him and his Dan. 8:14 thesis (with which I do NOT agree at all). But the denomination, in clutching at the straw of EGW, entered into a new phase of spiritual wilderness, barren and full of leaves. Hence those 28 FB.
Earthcaller

Palm Coast, FL

#13 May 22, 2011
wensday wrote:
<quoted text>
Then they proved her wrong. Thank you, very much.
She actually has stated on record not to get your teaching from her, that we are to get it from the Bible. She also stated that God will have a people on the earth that will exalt the Bible as their only rule of faith and authority. I am paraphrasing her statement.

Her inspiration was not in the form of molding theological concepts. This was supposed to be the work of once faithful men. The Sanctuary vision came from Hiram Edson and the Sanctuary is in the Bible. When you study Ellen White's Sanctuary theology she did not possess all the light that exists today on the subject but she did give us a hint in 1903 regarding the advanced light that was to come regarding Laodicea. Her work in this area the 1903 warning was clearly from God and God mean't it to be that way on account of the fact that the advanced light on the subject would need to be understood during the time that she referred to as the Closing Work for the Church and the final 3 Testimonies that reveal present duty at this time. This could not possibly be the work of an uninspired woman on account of the fact that there is a final prophetic legacy that she left us prior to her death which concerns present duty during the present SDA crisis. Funny thing is that some people understand it and some don't. Others like yourself believe that she was totally wrong. So its up to you to do your own research.

When I say today I am not referring to the mainline view on subject of the Sanctuary on account of the fact that they didn't follow up with what Ballenger and Andreasson had to say regarding what I just posted up above. But Ellen White did give the hint in 1903 and that is why I know God was with her and has now permitted her statements to come true. One of those statements deals with the things that we thought were so sure crumbling or falling apart around us. Again I am paraphrasing.

Another case in point with regard to Revelation 13 she used Uriah Smith's theology. With regard to Righteousness by Faith she clearly stated that Jones and Waggoner were God's delegated messengers. The advanced light of R by F was not given to her.
Lay Worker

Perth, Australia

#14 May 22, 2011
Earthcaller wrote:
<quoted text>
She actually has stated on record not to get your teaching from her, that we are to get it from the Bible. She also stated that God will have a people on the earth that will exalt the Bible as their only rule of faith and authority. I am paraphrasing her statement.
Her inspiration was not in the form of molding theological concepts. This was supposed to be the work of once faithful men. The Sanctuary vision came from Hiram Edson and the Sanctuary is in the Bible. When you study Ellen White's Sanctuary theology she did not possess all the light that exists today on the subject but she did give us a hint in 1903 regarding the advanced light that was to come regarding Laodicea. Her work in this area the 1903 warning was clearly from God and God mean't it to be that way on account of the fact that the advanced light on the subject would need to be understood during the time that she referred to as the Closing Work for the Church and the final 3 Testimonies that reveal present duty at this time. This could not possibly be the work of an uninspired woman on account of the fact that there is a final prophetic legacy that she left us prior to her death which concerns present duty during the present SDA crisis. Funny thing is that some people understand it and some don't. Others like yourself believe that she was totally wrong. So its up to you to do your own research.
When I say today I am not referring to the mainline view on subject of the Sanctuary on account of the fact that they didn't follow up with what Ballenger and Andreasson had to say regarding what I just posted up above. But Ellen White did give the hint in 1903 and that is why I know God was with her and has now permitted her statements to come true. One of those statements deals with the things that we thought were so sure crumbling or falling apart around us. Again I am paraphrasing.
Another case in point with regard to Revelation 13 she used Uriah Smith's theology. With regard to Righteousness by Faith she clearly stated that Jones and Waggoner were God's delegated messengers. The advanced light of R by F was not given to her.
The material above has been presented hee over and over - and no one is able to answer -

it remains, unanswerable

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#15 May 22, 2011
Earthcaller wrote:
<quoted text>
She actually has stated on record not to get your teaching from her, that we are to get it from the Bible. She also stated that God will have a people on the earth that will exalt the Bible as their only rule of faith and authority. I am paraphrasing her statement.
Her inspiration was not in the form of molding theological concepts. This was supposed to be the work of once faithful men. The Sanctuary vision came from Hiram Edson and the Sanctuary is in the Bible. When you study Ellen White's Sanctuary theology she did not possess all the light that exists today on the subject but she did give us a hint in 1903 regarding the advanced light that was to come regarding Laodicea. Her work in this area the 1903 warning was clearly from God and God mean't it to be that way on account of the fact that the advanced light on the subject would need to be understood during the time that she referred to as the Closing Work for the Church and the final 3 Testimonies that reveal present duty at this time. This could not possibly be the work of an uninspired woman on account of the fact that there is a final prophetic legacy that she left us prior to her death which concerns present duty during the present SDA crisis. Funny thing is that some people understand it and some don't. Others like yourself believe that she was totally wrong. So its up to you to do your own research.
When I say today I am not referring to the mainline view on subject of the Sanctuary on account of the fact that they didn't follow up with what Ballenger and Andreasson had to say regarding what I just posted up above. But Ellen White did give the hint in 1903 and that is why I know God was with her and has now permitted her statements to come true. One of those statements deals with the things that we thought were so sure crumbling or falling apart around us. Again I am paraphrasing.
Another case in point with regard to Revelation 13 she used Uriah Smith's theology. With regard to Righteousness by Faith she clearly stated that Jones and Waggoner were God's delegated messengers. The advanced light of R by F was not given to her.
So in getting their understanding of "the blood matter", they proved her wrong. Everyone understands that. No need to belabour the point.
Lay Worker

Perth, Australia

#16 May 22, 2011
theCircle wrote:
<quoted text>
So in getting their understanding of "the blood matter", they proved her wrong. Everyone understands that. No need to belabour the point.
Its not a blood matter at all - its about the the tranferance of sin; can ye not read {?} other than providing unhelpful quips of things ye know not? The point MUST be laboured - for it does not change the verity of the Sanctuary DOctrine and the ministration of Jesus as our Great High Priest [Heb 8:5] now in the Heaven;ly Sanctuary and HIs ministraiton of the Final Atonement which does not include an IJ of the saints.

That leaves YOU with signifcant theological problems that you are completely unprepared and drift here and there with all things irrelevant.

Watch now, yes indeed watch, for the BOg O's stupid unintelligent, responses
Diane

Escondido, CA

#17 May 22, 2011
Lay Worker, the concept of an "investigative judgment" is a blasphemy of the blood of Jesus because. It asserts that His death on the cross was insuffiiciet to guarntee a believer's salvation. Instead, Jesus must continnue His atoning work by evaluationg the works of each believer. The sda member is taught that he can never know he is saved until Jesus has completed his work to validate a persons salvation. The Bible said we are saved through faith and not by works. Ellen says salvation is by grace plus our own diligent effort.

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#18 May 22, 2011
Lay Worker wrote:
<quoted text>
Its not a blood matter at all - its about the the tranferance of sin; can ye not read {?} other than providing unhelpful quips of things ye know not? The point MUST be laboured - for it does not change the verity of the Sanctuary DOctrine and the ministration of Jesus as our Great High Priest [Heb 8:5] now in the Heaven;ly Sanctuary and HIs ministraiton of the Final Atonement which does not include an IJ of the saints.
That leaves YOU with signifcant theological problems that you are completely unprepared and drift here and there with all things irrelevant.
Watch now, yes indeed watch, for the BOg O's stupid unintelligent, responses
SDA, posting from all over Florida:

Post #6: Ellen White about BF Ballenger, "The word of God is always the truth, but the doctrines that Elder Ballenger advances, if received, would unsettle our faith in the sanctuary question."

Post #7: Earthcaller about BF Ballenger, "Ballenger was correct on one point just as ML Andreasson was on the very same issue. That point concerns the following information."

Therefore what BF Ballenger and ML Andreasson found concerning "the matter of the blood", being written in the Bible and being warned against by Ellen White, served to prove that Ellen White was wrong. Or else Earthcaller did not say the right things about those two honourable men.
Diane

Escondido, CA

#19 May 22, 2011
Lay Worker, are you throwing out the resurrection of Christ who said we are united with Him in His death and His resurrection ???? It is through our identity in the resurrected Christ that we have our assurance of salvation and eternal life. Without the resurrection we are still dead in our sins and have no hope. Jesus gave power over sin, death, and the grave. He didn't let us go to hell. We are already saved by the blood the day He died for you and me. The IJ is not taught by God. It is Ellens cannon, not the Lords.
Robert Two

Adelaide, Australia

#20 May 22, 2011
wensday wrote:
<quoted text>
Because of him, SDA hardened their hearts even more and gave themselves over fully to the voice of Ellen White.
I have read something about him and his Dan. 8:14 thesis (with which I do NOT agree at all). But the denomination, in clutching at the straw of EGW, entered into a new phase of spiritual wilderness, barren and full of leaves. Hence those 28 FB.
It was in fact just the OPPOSITE.
PEOPLE LIKE DESMOND fooled themselves that they knew best.

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