Gods People and His Law
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Paul from California

San Mateo, CA

#1 Oct 25, 2010
Under the Law of Moses

we have the Ministry of Death...engraved on stones 2 Cor 3:6

Here is an example;

Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him,“Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned.

If Gods people breached a commandment, the penalty was death

and there was NO REPENTENCE, NO SECOND CHANCE....just death

This is called condemnation verse 9 of 2 Cor 3

conclusion; The Law of Moses which consists of the Ten C's , statues, ordiances, sac laws, feast laws, ceremonial laws

is called the MINISTRY OF DEATH....IT IS CONDEMNING

----------

Under the Law of Christ

we have the Ministry of the Spirit

If Gods people breached a commandment the penalty is not death.
Gods people are commanded to repent and change and reframe from further sinning. If one in Christ keeps willfully sinning, then they are not of Christ, they are imposters

Jn 8:11 Rom 8:1,2

Gods people are those who keep His laws out of love in a relationship between He and them

If you love the Lord, if you are a follower of Christ, you will keep His laws even though there is no more condemnation, no more death sentence. These are those that belong to Him.

OUT OF SHEAR LOVE WE FOLLOW GOD
Rockroller

AOL

#2 Oct 25, 2010
Paul from California wrote:
Under the Law of Moses
we have the Ministry of Death...engraved on stones 2 Cor 3:6
Here is an example;
Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him,“Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned.
If Gods people breached a commandment, the penalty was death
and there was NO REPENTENCE, NO SECOND CHANCE....just death
This is called condemnation verse 9 of 2 Cor 3
conclusion; The Law of Moses which consists of the Ten C's , statues, ordiances, sac laws, feast laws, ceremonial laws
is called the MINISTRY OF DEATH....IT IS CONDEMNING
----------
Under the Law of Christ
we have the Ministry of the Spirit
If Gods people breached a commandment the penalty is not death.
Gods people are commanded to repent and change and reframe from further sinning. If one in Christ keeps willfully sinning, then they are not of Christ, they are imposters
Jn 8:11 Rom 8:1,2
Gods people are those who keep His laws out of love in a relationship between He and them
If you love the Lord, if you are a follower of Christ, you will keep His laws even though there is no more condemnation, no more death sentence. These are those that belong to Him.
OUT OF SHEAR LOVE WE FOLLOW GOD
So, are you married? Do you and your wife have a marriage contract or vow that you recited at your wedding? Why did you do that? Your way of thinking that your love for one another will do away with the law because you will keep it anyway.

So one day your wife comes to you and tells you, "I love you and I know you love me and I know you want me to enjoy life, so I am going to Las Vegas for a week with on of my male friends but I still love you and I know you still love me."

Hmmmm? Since you love her UNCONDITIONALY you say "Ok dear, have fun." No, I don't think you would say this--but since you don't have any vow or marriage covenant to keep, what else can you do?

Do you see how stupid your way of thinking really is? God has a covenant with anyone who wants to abide by that covenant. He said He will be their God because they have said they will obey what it says in the covenant. And NO--God does not and will not shack up with anyone. You either obey the law or you will NOT have God as your God! It is as simple as that.

The codes, rules, regulations and statutes died with the loss of the jurisdiction of the Jews when they failed to become righteous within the time frame found in Dan. 9:24. You can't have laws for a nation once that nation ceases to be. See how simple this all is?
Doug SDA

AOL

#3 Oct 25, 2010
Paul C teaches a false concept of God in the old testament.

“If Gods people breached a commandment, the penalty was death

and there was NO REPENTENCE, NO SECOND CHANCE....just death”

The truth is:
The entire sanctuary system was to teach that God is the God of grace and forgiveness and justification was through Christ alone.

Lev 4:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall SIN .... AGAINST ANY OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD.

20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and THE PRIEST SHALL MAKE AN ATONEMENT FOR THEM, AND IT SHALL BE FORGIVEN THEM.

They could receive forgiveness endlessly.

Ex 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and GRACIOUS, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, 7 Keeping mercy for thousands, FORGIVING INIQUITY AND TRANSGRESSION AND SIN,

Gal 2:15 We [who are] Jews by nature [from birth], and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16 Knowing [have always known] that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Doug SDA

AOL

#4 Oct 25, 2010
Deut 5:28 And the LORD heard the voice of your words, when ye spake unto me; and the LORD said unto me, I have heard the voice of the words of this people, which they have spoken unto thee: they have well said all that they have spoken.
5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!

33 YE SHALL WALK IN ALL THE WAYS WHICH THE LORD YOUR GOD HATH COMMANDED YOU, THAT YE MAY LIVE,

In the NT the wages of sin is DEATH. Rom 6:23

Satan has used the commandments for death.

Rom 7:10 And the commandment, which [was ordained] to life,(God gave the law “That YE MAY LIVE”)

“I found [to be] unto death.”

11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me].( It is Satan that uses the law to kill us. Sin comes from Satan)

The law in the hand of Satan in “sin and death”

The law in ht hand of God is holy, just, and good.

12 Wherefore the law [is] holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Deut 5:10 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

6:5 And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he [is] God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

7:13 And he will love thee, and bless thee,

10:12 what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,

10:15 the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them,

10:19 Love ye therefore the stranger:

11:1 Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.

11:13 ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,

11:22 For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, TO LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD, to walk in all his ways, AND TO CLEAVE UNTO
HIM;

13:3 ....the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.

19:9 If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to walk ever in his ways;

30:6 And THE LORD THY GOD WILL circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, THAT THOU MAYEST LIVE.

30:16 I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments

30:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God,[and] that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he [is] thy life,

John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love;
Doug SDA

AOL

#5 Oct 25, 2010
Ps 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.

51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me [with thy] free spirit.

139:7 Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there].

God’s Holy Spirit has been just as active in the OT as it is in the NT.

143:10 Teach me to do thy will; for thou [art] my God: thy spirit [is] good; lead me into the land of uprightness.

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man,

The Holy Spirit strives with us. With out the Spirit striving no one NT or OT would come to Christ.

The Spirit Teaches us, and leads us Ps 143:10

Upholds us and gives us the joy of salvation Ps 51:12

Gen 41:38 And Pharaoh said unto his servants, Can we find [such a one] as this [is], a man in whom the Spirit of God [is]?

Prov 1:23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

God’s Spirit reproves us and makes known to us God’s word.

Prov 15:3 The eyes of the LORD [are] in every place, beholding the evil and the good.
4 A wholesome tongue [is] a tree of life: but PERVERSENESS therein [IS] A BREACH IN THE SPIRIT.

Prov 20:27 (NKJV) The spirit of a man is the lamp of the LORD, Searching all the inner depths of his heart.

Since: Oct 10

Hurleyville, NY

#6 Oct 25, 2010
Rockroller wrote:
<quoted text>
And NO--God does not and will not shack up with anyone. You either obey the law or you will NOT have God as your God! It is as simple as that.
The codes, rules, regulations and statutes died with the loss of the jurisdiction of the Jews when they failed to become righteous within the time frame found in Dan. 9:24. You can't have laws for a nation once that nation ceases to be. See how simple this all is?
I don't think that this is what Doug is saying at all...
And while you are correct that you "can't have laws for a nation once that nation ceases to be"
they can exist as an example of what a person could be...
I take this law/grace thing a bit differently....We came into this world without anything...no values, no clothes, no nothing...God provides us with parents, who provides for our physical needs as we grow up....God also provides values for us found in the bible...As we grow, we come to realize that there is a God, and we experience Him...and he reasure us of our place with Him...He gives us a daily plan and the oppertunity to reject it or grow from it....Those doctrines that we reviewed, become our values...and become us...Life is then interpreted thru those values...and since they come from God, we can be assured that they will give us a fuller experience with life..all from God...
that's probably a bit more liberal than most of you legal beagles can handle, but it IS what you are experiencing....

Me inhim

Since: Jul 10

Lancaster, UK

#7 Oct 25, 2010
Revelation 14:12 (New King James Version) "Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD and the faith of Jesus."

POC, notice it says the COMMANDMENTS OF GOD!! NOT COMMANDMENTS OF JESUS!! JESUS DID NOT COME TO CHANGE THE LAW!! HE CAME TO DIE TO PAY FOR YOUR PENALTY OF SIN! DEATH!!

END OF STORY!!!

Dan
Rockroller

AOL

#8 Oct 25, 2010
Admiral_d wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think that this is what Doug is saying at all...
And while you are correct that you "can't have laws for a nation once that nation ceases to be"
they can exist as an example of what a person could be...
I take this law/grace thing a bit differently....We came into this world without anything...no values, no clothes, no nothing...God provides us with parents, who provides for our physical needs as we grow up....God also provides values for us found in the bible...As we grow, we come to realize that there is a God, and we experience Him...and he reasure us of our place with Him...He gives us a daily plan and the oppertunity to reject it or grow from it....Those doctrines that we reviewed, become our values...and become us...Life is then interpreted thru those values...and since they come from God, we can be assured that they will give us a fuller experience with life..all from God...
that's probably a bit more liberal than most of you legal beagles can handle, but it IS what you are experiencing....
I suppose you believe in "Social Justice" too? That's just another name for socialism.

God wants people to choose to love and obey Him--or not. He wouldn't have it any other way.

Paul has people being zombies because he said once Jesus died for everyone's sin, that there is no more choice to make. He said you must die daily. A dead person has no choice. Paul said the flesh is weak and the spirit is willing.

Try this: Seperate the two and see what happens to the living soul? This was about the dumbest thing Paul ever said--and millions of people buy the scam! Look, the body without the spirit can't make a choice and the spirit withoug the body can't make a choice. Can anyone say: "Christian Zombies"?
Paul from California

San Mateo, CA

#9 Oct 25, 2010
Doug SDA wrote:
Paul C teaches a false concept of God in the old testament.
“If Gods people breached a commandment, the penalty was death
and there was NO REPENTENCE, NO SECOND CHANCE....just death”
The truth is:
The entire sanctuary system was to teach that God is the God of grace and forgiveness and justification was through Christ alone.
Lev 4:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a soul shall SIN .... AGAINST ANY OF THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD.
20 And he shall do with the bullock as he did with the bullock for a sin offering, so shall he do with this: and THE PRIEST SHALL MAKE AN ATONEMENT FOR THEM, AND IT SHALL BE FORGIVEN THEM.
They could receive forgiveness endlessly.
Ex 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and GRACIOUS, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth, 7 Keeping mercy for thousands, FORGIVING INIQUITY AND TRANSGRESSION AND SIN,
Gal 2:15 We [who are] Jews by nature [from birth], and not sinners of the Gentiles,
16 Knowing [have always known] that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
So DT, you just flat out deny there are death penalties applied to the Ten C's in the Law of Moses which governs the Israelies?

Since: Oct 10

Hurleyville, NY

#10 Oct 26, 2010
Rockroller wrote:
<quoted text>
I suppose you believe in "Social Justice" too? That's just another name for socialism.
God wants people to choose to love and obey Him--or not. He wouldn't have it any other way.
Paul has people being zombies because he said once Jesus died for everyone's sin, that there is no more choice to make. He said you must die daily. A dead person has no choice. Paul said the flesh is weak and the spirit is willing.
Try this: Seperate the two and see what happens to the living soul? This was about the dumbest thing Paul ever said--and millions of people buy the scam! Look, the body without the spirit can't make a choice and the spirit withoug the body can't make a choice. Can anyone say: "Christian Zombies"?
What is your problem with communism? You do know that you WILL be living in a communist state in heaven, don't you? Communisum will work provided that the nature of man is good....which it isn't....

And here you go, crossin' threads....Bad internet ettisquet man..bad ettiquet...You really ought to learn to behave better...You wouldn't want adventist's to have the repuation that they are not nice people, would you?

And your understanding of the flesh/spirit, dieing daily is flawed...but what else is knew? I guess that there is no real understanding of what the bible is trying to say in those verses...
Doug SDA

AOL

#11 Oct 26, 2010
Paul from California wrote:
<quoted text>
So DT, you just flat out deny there are death penalties applied to the Ten C's in the Law of Moses which governs the Israelies?
It is the same in OT and the NT Rom 6:23

Both OT and NT provide Grace and forgiveness to the repentant.

Both OT and NT provide the Holy Spirit.[Ps 51:11,12]

Both OT and NT write the 10 C's in our heart.[Deut 30:10; Josh 22:5; Ps 37:31]

Both OT and NT have 2 covenants sin and death by works [Gal 4:24]
and Justification by the death of Christ.[Ps 32:2; Gal 2:15,16]

Stoning was not written into the 10 C's.

Stoning was apart from the civil laws based on the 10C's under the theocracy not to be confused with the 10C's.






Rockroller

AOL

#12 Oct 26, 2010
Admiral_d wrote:
<quoted text>
What is your problem with communism? You do know that you WILL be living in a communist state in heaven, don't you? Communisum will work provided that the nature of man is good....which it isn't....
And here you go, crossin' threads....Bad internet ettisquet man..bad ettiquet...You really ought to learn to behave better...You wouldn't want adventist's to have the repuation that they are not nice people, would you?
And your understanding of the flesh/spirit, dieing daily is flawed...but what else is knew? I guess that there is no real understanding of what the bible is trying to say in those verses...
Heaven will be a theocracy--a Kingdom of God. That is not communism. And what thread did I cross? Isn't this one about God's poeple and the law? As a Kingdom, the King makes the law and in this case, the law is the covenant-the ten commandments as we find in Rev. 12:17.

As for 'nice people' Jesus was 'nice' and look what they did to Him? No, real Adventist truth seekers will not tolorate lies that other people (the majority) will be believing. Rev. 3:4,5 show that only a few will not follow after the lies of EGW and Paul, and they will overcome sin THEMSELVES by making the right choice NOT to be nice to evil lies.

And what is so hard understanding what Paul said about the flesh and spirit? Did he not say that the flesh was week and the spirit is willing? How can the flesh make a choice if it is dead? How can the spirit make a choice without a brain? God said that the body and the breath of God (spirit) are needed to make a living soul. Is this difficult to understand? NO!

You people who say they have died to self are nothing other than "Christian Zombies". Don't they say "once saved always saved"? Is not this a christian zombie? These people actually believe they can't make a choice again.

Me inhim

Since: Jul 10

Newcastle Upon Tyne, UK

#13 Oct 26, 2010
"Rev. 3:4,5 show that only a few will not follow after the lies of EGW and Paul, and they will overcome sin THEMSELVES by making the right choice NOT to be nice to evil lies."

That is why I refuse to be NICE to EGW freaks!! I call them by their RIGHT NAME! FREAKS!!LIARS!! Lovers of LIES!! Wolves in sheep clothing!! SCORPIONS!! VIPERS!!

Even my 5 yr old grandson can see EGW lied on the GOLD CARDS for angels. He laughed his head off when he read it!
How is it a 5yrs old can see the LIE and these FREAKS here adore it!! and call themselves SHEEP OF GOD??

Dan
Paul from California

San Mateo, CA

#14 Oct 26, 2010
you state;

It is the same in OT and the NT Rom 6:23

my reply;

This is a blantant lie, the gift of eternal life was not a possiblity in the OT

you state;

Both OT and NT provide Grace and forgiveness to the repentant.

my reply;

where is your scripture, in which a Israelite who committed adultery was given grace and forgiveness

you state;

Both OT and NT provide the Holy Spirit.[Ps 51:11,12]

my reply;

your lying, this scripture refers to the special annointing of a King, Gods Holy Spirit was only given to those in specific positions
the Israelite's NEVER EVER received the gift of the Holy Spirit

you state;

Both OT and NT write the 10 C's in our heart.[Deut 30:10; Josh 22:5; Ps 37:31]

my reply;

this is another lie of yours, these scriptures do not indicate God putting the law within mans heart
moreover you make God a goofy God, when He states,
the New Cove is not according to the Old, I will write my laws within their hearts...shame on you

you state;

Both OT and NT have 2 covenants sin and death by works [Gal 4:24]
and Justification by the death of Christ.[Ps 32:2; Gal 2:15,16]

my reply

wrong...the New Covenant is the Covenant of the Spirit....liberty in Christ...freedom

the Old Covenant is the Misnistry of Death engraved on stones......
this is no where in the New Cove

God clearly demands no one go under the Old Covenant for one will be judged by the Old Covenant
Rom 2:12

You teach terrible lies

Cursed are you teaching people to go under the Old Cove, the Law Gal 3:13 Rom 2:12
Gerhard Ebersoehn

Bryanston, South Africa

#15 Oct 26, 2010
You are sick.

Joshua 6:25 Psalms 87:4
Doug SDA

AOL

#16 Oct 27, 2010
Paul of C states:

"This is a blantant lie, the gift of eternal life was not a possiblity in the OT"

Have you not read Heb 11.

Heb 11 teaches all people have only been saved by faith in all covenants.

Those in Heb 11 are only examples of the countless redeemed of all covenants.

Many in all covenants are lost because they seek salvation by works. Gal

Paul of C says "where is your scripture, in which a Israelite who committed adultery was given grace and forgiveness"

Paul of C read Lev 11 Grace and forgiveness is always dependent on repentance.

Paul of C "your lying, this scripture refers to the special annointing of a King, Gods Holy Spirit was only given to those in specific positions
the Israelite's NEVER EVER received the gift of the Holy Spirit"

Paul of C read Gen 6 [The Holy Spirit strives with all men.]

Paul of C you teach some kind of new gospel.

You need to teach the everlasting gospel delivered to Adam, Noah, Abraham, David, and the followers of Christ.

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

Christ reveled Himself to Israel as the Lord God full of Grace and forgiveness.

Ex 34:6 And the LORD passed by before him, and proclaimed, The LORD, The LORD God, merciful and GRACIOUS, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth,

7 Keeping MERCY for thousands, FORGIVING INIQUITY AND TRANSGRESSION AND SIN, and that will by no means clear [the guilty]; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth [generation].

EX 20:6 “mercy unto thousands of them that love me”

God’s character does not change from covenant to covenant

Mal 3:6 For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Why were the sons of Jacob not consumed? Because God is the God of love. Ex 34; 20

Eze 33:11 Say unto them,[As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: TURN YE, TURN YE FROM YOUR EVIL WAYS; FOR WHY WILL YE DIE, O HOUSE OF ISRAEL?

Why did Israel die when they went to adultery?

They did not repent.

There are always two Covenants: works or faith [Story of Abraham Gen; Gal]

Prov 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof [are] the ways of death. 26 He that laboureth laboureth for himself;

The law in the hands of Satan lead to sin, death, legalizem and condemnation.[Thou shalt not]

The same law written in the heart by faith by the Holy Spirit [Rom 7:25; 8:1; 8:4] is God’s promise without condemnation [Thou shalt not]

The covenant is new when YOU CHANGE from works to faith.

The same covenant is given to you and not your fathers because each person must accept the covenant individually and can not rely on the salvation of others.

It is alway your reaction to the covenant whether it is old works or new faith.





Paul from California

San Mateo, CA

#17 Oct 28, 2010
Gerhard Ebersoehn wrote:
You are sick.
Joshua 6:25 Psalms 87:4
Who is sick and foolish?

Rehab was a Gentile

Not subject to the Law of Moses

----------

This is an example of how your theology is created.
Paul from California

San Mateo, CA

#18 Oct 28, 2010
dt,

By faith those in the OT were declared righteous

but they did not receive the gift of Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit to dwell in them.
Lev 11 is the law of the beast and birds
----------

The Holy Spirit striving with man does not mean He is in man, in the OT

----------

you never answered this deception;

where is your scripture, in which a Israelite who committed adultery was given grace and forgiveness

Dt, we all know that when the Nation Israel repented and turned back to God , He forgave them and had mercy

where is your specific scripture in regards to the breaching of one of a Ten C,

where does God allow the Israelite to repent and
get out of the Death penalty in the OT

stop feeding us the run around and provide specific scripture

Gods character does not change agreed, but God changed the law Heb 7:12

you teach lies
----------
Rockroller

AOL

#19 Oct 28, 2010
Paul from CA wrote: "Gods character does not change agreed, but God changed the law Heb. 7:12"

WHAT? Are you calling the writer of Hebrews God? God did NOT change the ten commandments and to prove it, they will be used against everyone who refuses to obey them when they are shown by bringing them down from heaven at the end. The poor writer of Hebrews is going to be in some serious hot water for what he did and all of the confusion he caused!

Since: Jul 09

St. Paul

#20 Oct 28, 2010
conclusion; The Law of Moses which consists of the Ten C's , statues, ordiances, sac laws, feast laws, ceremonial laws
The Ten C's were written by God, not Moses and therefore are called the Law of God:

Romans 7:22-25 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

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