For Rock and anyone.....
Posted in the Seventh-day Adventist Forum
#1 Jan 29, 2013
...else who think they understand Paul.
Gal 4:10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
There is something very important about the way that Paul phrased the above verse.
It's something that very few know so if you can tell me what it is, and explain what he means then I'll have to admit that you do indeed have a clue about Paul.
But if you can't.......
Remember God said:
Pro 25:2 [It is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.
Can you find what is hidden in this phrase?
#2 Jan 29, 2013
Please be more specific Kevin. I am at a place with no bible right now, so I am not sure what you are talking about.
Lets get this straight, Paul was defending his invented gospel against the gospel that the true disciples were teaching.
Chapter 3 has Paul attempting to justify his false gospel of faith by lying about God saying Abraham was righteous because of his faith. Problem is, Abraham's faith was weak in that he did nto trust God fully so he used his wife's maid to produce a son for him, instead of fully trusting in God.
Abraham's faith was lacking and it was not about faith that caused God to say Abraham was righteoous, but because Abraham obeyed God.
Therefore, Paul's whole theory is flawed but since his foundation depends upon this flawed idea, he makes more lies saying that righteousness comes out of faith and not by obeying MANS covenant, or a covenant set up by man.(trouble is, it was God who set this covenant up with His Kingdom, not man--so Paul is now caught in another lie.)
If I recall, the first part of chapter 4 has Paul saying that because of the faulty covenant, God sent a human man born of Mary, the natural way because it was better for one to die for all than each to be responsible for their own sin.(This is another lie from Paul--if I recall my study on this).
Therefore, by the time you get to verse ten, Paul is chastising them for keeping the statutes providing for feasts and other timed events that were to point to future true events such as the Passover and Atonement along with other such 'holidays' they kept. In this, Paul was correct as this would have included the cleansing rite that He later attended in Jerusalem (see Acts 21) and even sacrifices animals for.
However, because Paul (as you Kevin) was not specific in what he wrote, the majority of christians today believe that the weekly Sabbath was also done away with.
Of course this in itself has caused great confusion and division among church denominitions and members. Jesus warned about those who scatter and because of what Paul wrote here, it did cause those who say they are believers, to scatter.
#4 Jan 29, 2013
Kevin, if I recall, the next chapter (chapter 5) has Paul giving us proof that Paul was not only talking about the statutes, but the covenant itself as he includes adultry, murder and other shall nots that are ONLY found in the last 6 conditions found in the covenant.
Therefore, Paul's opinion was flawed and this same flaw has been the foundation for the error in the majority of christians today, believing that the whole covenant has been done away with because no one can keep it.
Also, if I recall, it was in Galatians that Paul declared that one is cursed if they keep the law--which he co-mingled the statutes with the covenant-the ten commandments.
#5 Jan 29, 2013
Paul refers to the 7 ceremonial sabbaths and the new moons of the ceremonial system.[Lev 23, Num.10:10, 28:11-15]
"times" Paul refers to the annual set festivals of the Jewish religious calendar.
"years" Paul refers to the sabbatical year and the year of jubilee.
Galatians had become entangled in the yoke of bondage and the Jewish legal system.[5:1, 4:9,21]
For them to return to the symbols of the ceremonial laws that pointed forward to the very expericence that they were enjoying.[1:6-8, 3:2 6-9, 14]
#6 Jan 30, 2013
So, you're saying that Paul earlier was condemning the Galatians for legalism, thinking they could earn salvation by the law, then in chapter 4 was condemning them for keeping pagan days.
Your reasoning doesn't make sense.
#7 Jan 30, 2013
Rock, I can't get more specific without giving you the answer.
It's all in that one verse.
I find your SDA theories amusing though. Paul was chastising them for keeping the Feasts you say, yet you also have concluded that Paul in Col. 2 is telling them not to let anyone judge them in regards to the Feasts.
So why is Paul allowed to judge them? After all, according to most people's theology, if they want to keep them fine, and if not fine.
But before we get off topic, is that all that you can find in Gal. 4:10 worth commenting about? After all, you told me that understand Paul just fine.
#8 Jan 30, 2013
Rock, there's no doubt that paul was talking about trying to earn salvation by law keeping. That's not what I'm getting at.
The whole christian world believes this.
That's all you've got out of Gal. 4:10? Maybe a little closer study of the verse might help.
But that is why we are told to study to show ourselves approved and that God places things line upon line and precept upon precept.
As I said before, the whole world thinks they understand Paul but they do not.
They think he teaches, you can't be saved by law keeping so you might as well not even try.
Or they think he teaches you can't be saved by keeping the old law, so Jesus gave us a new law to keep.
Both ideas are so wrong. And it is these wrong ideas of Paul that has led you and many others to reject Paul.
If you really had a clue what Paul was talking about from your earliest days as a commandment keeping Christian you'd never have thrown out Paul.
Apparently those that taught you didn't have a clue about Paul either.
#9 Jan 30, 2013
Sorry, but Paul in Galatians is talking about the whole law not just the ceremonial system.
Your SDA background is showing.
When Paul says that you can't be saved by law keeping he means any law, not just the ceremonial law.
But, that's still not what I'm looking for from Gal. 4:10.
I'm going to wait a few days hoping that others will attempt to answer, but as I said, I doubt that anyone here knows enough about Gal. 4:10 to give me the answer that I'm looking for.
#11 Jan 30, 2013
Shaul was speaking to Gentile converts,who previously worshiped pagan deities and were in bondage to the sins of those pagan customs.They had a deity for every day of the week,month,and year.
They had returned back to those pagan customs after learning the truth of Yahuah's Holy Days.The Galatians had no knowledge of Yahuah's Holy Days before the believed so (Galatians 4:10) is not talking about Yahuah's Holy Days, but their(Galatians) pagan practices. I hope this helps your over standing.
1 And it came to pass in Iconium, that they went both together into the synagogue of the Jews, and so spake, that a great multitude both of the Jews and also of the Greeks believed.
And there they preached the gospel.
8 And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:
9 The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,
10 Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.
11 And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.
12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.
13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.
14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
15 And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living Mighty One, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:
16 Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways.
17 Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.
18 And with these sayings scarce restrained they the people, that they had not done sacrifice unto them.
#12 Jan 30, 2013
How is the Galatian legalism, which was trying to be saved by keeping the old covenant law, equal to paganism.
You're not just silly, you're ignorance is showing.
#13 Jan 30, 2013
NOthing in the above from Kevvie and ROckyBUllwinkle can assist the laity within Adventism
#14 Jan 30, 2013
Gal 3:1 ¶ O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
First off the Galatians were Christians, they had received the Spirit according to Paul. From this verse it should be clear there was a contention between law and faith.
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?
It is plain here that the Galatians were trying to become perfect through the flesh.
Perfect through the flesh how?
Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you,[doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
By the works of the law.
It is evident by chapter 3 that Paul is not talking to gentiles going back to pagan days. They were trying to be saved by law keeping. The context is plain.
So no, the days that paul is referring to in Gal. 4:10 was not pagan days.
I was in the Worldwide Church of God for 25 years and that is how they explained this verse too. They said they were going back to pagan days.
It makes no sense gentiles who were trying to earn salvation by obeying the old covenant law going back to pagan days? I don't think so.
They were indeed keeping the Sabbath, Holy Days, and sabbatical years, and jubilee years. But there's more to it.
This is why I asked the question, and so far no one has even come close to what I'm looking for.
#15 Jan 30, 2013
To BILLIONS of Christians [dead & alive] Gal 4: 9-11 & ROM 14: 5 & Col 2: 16 & ROM 10: 4 & GAL 3: 9-11 it meant they CAN DUMP the Holy 4th commandment and still expect GOD to hear their prayers & accept Worship. Matt 15: 8-9 & Matt 7: 21-23 & John 9: 31 & PROV 28: 9
If Paul's writing were NOT placed in the Bible by the RCC you would not be making that post today and BILLIONS of Christians [dead & alive] would have accepted Holy 4th commandment and NOT DUMPED IT! AGREE?
#16 Jan 30, 2013
Look at the FACTS! Don't give opinions!
The FACT is PAUL's writings are preached almost EVERY SUNDAY in Sunday churches! Billions of Christians both Catholics & Prostants have gone to their GRAVE REJECTING the HOLY 4th Commandment because of PAUL's writings!!!!
UIt's happening to the living! Read the posts by ANTI 4th commandment mebers on here. They get their beliefs against the HOLY 4th commandment from PAUL!
I spk on FACTS!! and NOT on OPINIONS or theories!
I LOOK at FACTS and the answers to spiritual questions against the Holy 4th Commandment by those that REJECT the LAW and the Holy 4th commandment!! There are billions [dead & alive] like Grammy, Shadrach & CrazyB & Earburner & Pastor Lee who spk against the HOLY 4th commandment and give several reasons why they have dumped the 4th Com!
#17 Jan 30, 2013
The scriptures must be read precept upon precept line upon line her a little there a little.I told you the truth concerning Galatians 4:10 Brother.
9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
#18 Jan 30, 2013
2 Peter 3:16
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
#19 Jan 30, 2013
You are correct Kevin as both Dennis and I have said that Paul's complaint and defence was against the gospel that the true disciples were teaching and had nothing to do with Pagan belief. This is why the whole letter to the Galatians was written because those who Paul had first taught were now keeping the ten commandments and abiding in the words of Jesus being taught by the true disciples. And as I pointed out, what Paul wrote in chapter 5 (adultry and such) proves it.
#20 Jan 30, 2013
Yes I agree. Dan I have told you before that I agree that Paul is the reason most don't understand the bible, but I believe that is God's design.
God is hiding the truth from most people today.
Only the firstfruits are being called today. That is why so many don't understand.
You reject Paul because you think it terrible how his writings have confused so many people. I love Paul's writings because it takes deep study to understand him.
That is why I'm asking this question. It is not opinion, it is fact and no one on here has been able to answer me regarding Gal. 4:10
Hint: Paul is not getting on them for merely observing the days, months, times and years.
Come on folks, you all have claimed to understand Paul.
This goes along the same lines as I;m sure most on here have never studied being "gennao from above" most have probably never heard the word gennao before.
Most on here have absolutely no idea that the phrase "first day of the week" is not what it says in the greek, in the greek it says "first of the sabbaths".
And I know that most don't even realize that the sabbaths that it's referring to are the seven sabbaths to Pentecost. This is just how clueless most of the people on this forum are.
I've shown you guys many truths from the greek and hebrew.
The fact that we are to be partakers of God's very nature (from another thread) the fact that we are only in the birth process and haven't been born yet.
I've shown many truths on here but evryone has their own preconceived false ideas that were taught them they won't even consider.
Paul wrote like he did for a reason.
Just as in the parable of the sower, the vast majority of the seed that was sown died. Very little of it grew to maturity. The same is happening today. Most of christendom hasn't a clue about the truth.
It's not that they are lost. It's just not their time to understand yet. The firstfruits will be harvested at Jesus return, then there will be another 1000 years for the rest of the harvest to be harvested.
As I've said many times, if you guys would keep God's feasts you'd have a clue about what's really happening down here on planet earth.
But no, too many want to believe lies that God has given them over to the lies.
#21 Jan 30, 2013
Yes, Sam, it is precept upon precept, but you are wrong concerning the Galatians going back to pagan days.
It makes absolutely no sense a group of people thinking that they can earn salvation by the law going back to pagan days.
Sorry Sam but that just doesn't fit the context of Galatians.
#22 Jan 30, 2013
I want loose any sleep if you don't know the history of them,which I showed you.They returned back to paganism,thats why Shaul asked them who has bewitched you to turn back to worshiping the the planets.
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