WHY do people leave ADVENTIST church?...
Shadrach

Santa Clara, CA

#1112 Aug 4, 2012
bluebird wrote:
Sabbath instructions are not listed you said, but the above verses explain what Jesus said about the Sabbath. If it didn't matter, wouldn't he say that?
The Ceremonial law, new moon Sabbaths, sacrifices, etc. were done away with. But I don't think it is OK to kill, steal, covet, etc. those are a separate law.
In Romans 8: 6,7 It states, "The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace, the sinful mind is hostile to God. It doesn't not submit to God's law, nor can it do so."
So even though we are under God's Spirit, and are not saved by the law, we submit to the law, as guided by the spirit of God. Not perfectly, but, as it says elsewhere, it is written in our hearts.
There are several of these, but just read this:
Romans 9: 8: "In other words, it is not the natural children who are God's children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham's offspring. Also verses 24 and 25 talking about those that follow God, Gentiles or Jews, are God's people, or Israel.
blue......the issue is COVENANT and what is in the Covenant

The Isrealites are not suppose to add or take away from the Israelite Covenant,
as the Pharisees did, by their traditions Mark 7:6-23 and were being exposed by Jesus, He called what they were doing, as commandments of men, in controvery over many issues, Honoring your father and mother, the laws of their Sabbath Covenant and Sabbath rituals Matt12:4-8 even food...

In Jesus gospel those food laws, all sabbaths, and their rituals,
in which Jesus was debating the Pharisees over,as anyone can attest to........passed away, they are not commanded in the gospel.

The Israelites were given their OWN Covenant Deut 4:8 Ps 147:19,20
and it was TILL CHRIST Gal 3:19-26

The Christian is given their own Covenant Heb 8:13 and it is forever with Him

The Israeli covenant is old

The Christian Covenant is New

Whoever goes back under the Old Covenant, will be judged by it
Rom 2:12 and cursed by it Gal 3:10-13

Since you bluebird will be judged by the Gospel Rom 2;16

you should be following only what is in the Gospel.

Is there a Sabbath Covenant commanded in the gospel...NO
Are there food laws in the gospel........NO
Are there sac laws in the gospel.......No
Are there feast laws in the gospel........no

Are there any condemning commandments in the gospel...NO Rom 8:2
2 Cor 3:6-11

Can a Christian be condemned..........NO Rom 8:1 Jn 3;18 Jn 5;24

Is the Old Covenant Deut 4:13 in the gospel....NO
it is condemning 2 Cor 3:11

Then canwe steal commit murder in the gospel.........NO

for we are under the moral laws of the gospel.

God issues the moral laws in His gospel that He wants all Christians to obey.

What 1 Billion Christian have all come to find in their gospel, their covenant,
is God issue 9 moral laws.

Now how many have you found in your covenant?
bluebird

Stuart, FL

#1113 Aug 4, 2012
Rockroller wrote:
<quoted text> Bluebird, it's not the Adventists that one should follow, it's Jesus. Today I heard a great sermon in church today by the gal who is the Chaplin at LLU. It was called "Follow the Leader". One MUST be able to give up EVERYTHING, including family, work, friends, church members, and all of the teaching, words and preaching of everyone else--in order to FULLY follow ONLY the words of Jesus! She said that MANY will make fun of you and call you names when you do this, but this is NECESSARY for salvation. WOW, WOW WOW! I have NEVER heard it in an Adventist Church like she told it.
Yes, there were some words from Luke and Mark, but overall she did a great job by using Matthew 19's story/event with Jesus. And she showed that ALL of the true disciples left EVERYTHING, to follow Jesus--their ONE AND ONLY true leader.
What gives? Has Rick been talking to her lately? Her name is Dylis Brooks.
By the way, I never heard so many "AMENS" in my life in an Adventist church! The only thing I would have wanted her to say was HOW to follow Jesus--but she probably doesn't know exactly. She did say that Jesus said there is only ONE leader so don't go making yourself a leader and don't go following anyone else who declares that he is a leader or who wants people to follow them (as Paul did). She said that Satan has used people ever since Jesus left to get people to follow them instead of Jesus and do NOT believe them even thou many in the world believe them.
Anyway, have a happy Sabbath! Rich
Sounds very good! What I try to do. I so wish my daughter would have gone to LLU instead of Andrews. It turned her off to it all. Can't blame it totally, but pretty much.
Kingfisher

Gulf Breeze, FL

#1114 Aug 4, 2012
Of course, at the Dental School at LLU are at least 3 Mormon professors on staff!
birdman

Arthur, IL

#1115 Aug 5, 2012
Shadrach wrote:
<quoted text>
blue......the issue is COVENANT and what is in the Covenant
The Isrealites are not suppose to add or take away from the Israelite Covenant,
as the Pharisees did, by their traditions Mark 7:6-23 and were being exposed by Jesus, He called what they were doing, as commandments of men, in controvery over many issues, Honoring your father and mother, the laws of their Sabbath Covenant and Sabbath rituals Matt12:4-8 even food...
In Jesus gospel those food laws, all sabbaths, and their rituals,
in which Jesus was debating the Pharisees over,as anyone can attest to........passed away, they are not commanded in the gospel.
The Israelites were given their OWN Covenant Deut 4:8 Ps 147:19,20
and it was TILL CHRIST Gal 3:19-26
The Christian is given their own Covenant Heb 8:13 and it is forever with Him
The Israeli covenant is old
The Christian Covenant is New
Whoever goes back under the Old Covenant, will be judged by it
Rom 2:12 and cursed by it Gal 3:10-13
Since you bluebird will be judged by the Gospel Rom 2;16
you should be following only what is in the Gospel.
Is there a Sabbath Covenant commanded in the gospel...NO
Are there food laws in the gospel........NO
Are there sac laws in the gospel.......No
Are there feast laws in the gospel........no
Are there any condemning commandments in the gospel...NO Rom 8:2
2 Cor 3:6-11
Can a Christian be condemned..........NO Rom 8:1 Jn 3;18 Jn 5;24
Is the Old Covenant Deut 4:13 in the gospel....NO
it is condemning 2 Cor 3:11
Then canwe steal commit murder in the gospel.........NO
for we are under the moral laws of the gospel.
God issues the moral laws in His gospel that He wants all Christians to obey.
What 1 Billion Christian have all come to find in their gospel, their covenant,
is God issue 9 moral laws.
Now how many have you found in your covenant?
FALSE TEACHING HERE BY SHADRACH THE FALSE TEACHER

Since: Jul 09

St. Paul

#1116 Aug 11, 2012
WWJD wrote:
I left the SDA Cult recently because it's a Cult which was teaching me to not completely trust in Jesus to save me in the end times and to help me avoid getting the Mark of the Beast, but rather that I should trust in the Sabbath and the Law and Myself to save myself.
The best decision I ever made was to leave the SDA Cult which is a false church who teaches legalism.
The SDA church teaches the opposite of the claim.
Lay Worker

Perth, Australia

#1117 Aug 11, 2012
djconklin wrote:
<quoted text>The SDA church teaches the opposite of the claim.
Actually - the following is appropos

"In the book Living Temple there is presented the alpha of deadly heresies. The OMEGA will follow, and will be received by those who are not willing to heed the warning God has given.{1SM 200.1}

and Sr White trembled for the church

Since: Jul 09

St. Paul

#1118 Aug 11, 2012
In Jesus gospel those food laws, all sabbaths, and their rituals,
in which Jesus was debating the Pharisees over,as anyone can attest to........passed away, they are not commanded in the gospel.
And yet in Col. 2:16-17 the believers WERE keeping the ceremonial sabbaths without Paul condemning them for doing so. Secondly, there's not a word in the NT telling people what PoC is claiming to be true. Thirdly, the early Christians, at least as late as the 5th century, how far beyond we do not know, were keeping the Sabbath.
Wintsmith

Wilmington, NC

#1119 Oct 2, 2012
Back to the original question, why do people leave Adventist church? Of course reasons vary, but in my experience, people leave because they didn't find belonging.

I am the author of two books about Adventists. The most recent one is CHURCH SCHOOL BLUES, available on amazon.com . This is a story of bullying in church schools, but numerous issues are touched upon, including that of people who convert to Adventism and are then ignored by the members in the church they join; and end up leaving out of loneliness. Congregations -- not just Adventist -- but any religious group tends to be cliquish -- and we talk about how we should ignore the people and focus on the Truth until we are blue in the face, but faith without a sense of belonging is a lonely walk.
ROBERT TWO

Kent Town, Australia

#1120 Oct 2, 2012
Searcher wrote:
Someone said that about 30 years ago only 2% of members left because of theological reasons. Today that figure has changed to 60%, for sociological reasons it seems 40% goes out the backdoor. What is your opinion ? Why did this happen? Can anything be done to STOP the massive exodus? About 3 million left during the past two decades.
YES there can be change. But it is not likely.
First there has to be REFORM and then you get REVIVAL in that order. THRUT has been left behind and the people in the pews have to get in charge of the church as a whole. THY WILL BE DONE ON EARTH AS IT IS HEAVEN has to happen first.
ISAIAH 9:16 is the problem.
I was one that left because of THEOLOGICAL reasons 30 years ago.
There was 90 & 9 that were safe in the fold.
The church never went looking for the lost sheep yet they knew exactly where to look .
ROBERT TWO

Kent Town, Australia

#1121 Oct 2, 2012
Wintsmith wrote:
Back to the original question, why do people leave Adventist church? Of course reasons vary, but in my experience, people leave because they didn't find belonging.
I am the author of two books about Adventists. The most recent one is CHURCH SCHOOL BLUES, available on amazon.com . This is a story of bullying in church schools, but numerous issues are touched upon, including that of people who convert to Adventism and are then ignored by the members in the church they join; and end up leaving out of loneliness. Congregations -- not just Adventist -- but any religious group tends to be cliquish -- and we talk about how we should ignore the people and focus on the Truth until we are blue in the face, but faith without a sense of belonging is a lonely walk.
This was the case back in the 1950s. We brought then in baptized them and forgot them as the faded out the back door.
The church manual was not followed by those on office so you are right.
birdman

Arthur, IL

#1122 Oct 2, 2012
ROBERT TWO wrote:
<quoted text>
YES there can be change. But it is not likely.
First there has to be REFORM and then you get REVIVAL in that order. THRUT has been left behind and the people in the pews have to get in charge of the church as a whole. THY WILL BE DONE ON EARTH AS IT IS HEAVEN has to happen first.
ISAIAH 9:16 is the problem.
I was one that left because of THEOLOGICAL reasons 30 years ago.
There was 90 & 9 that were safe in the fold.
The church never went looking for the lost sheep yet they knew exactly where to look .
There would be no Theological reasons if people would sit down together with the Holy Spirit and go thru the Bible and Bible alone!!!
Pioneer

United States

#1123 Oct 2, 2012
Shadrach wrote:
<quoted text>
The Christian is given their own Covenant Heb 8:13 and it is forever with Him

The Israeli covenant is old

The Christian Covenant is New
Putrid and totally against the word of God.

Gal. There is neither

Jew nor Greek,

there is neither bond nor free, there is

neither male nor female:

for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

3:29 And if ye [be] Christ's,

then are ye Abraham's seed,

and heirs according to the promise.

The PROMISE WAS GIVEN IN THE OT NOT THE NEW SO YOU COULD NEVER BE OF ABRAHAM'S SEED.

THEN YOU ARE NEITHER JEW NOR GREEK (NOR GENTILE) MAN NOR WOMAN SO WHAT ARE YOU THEN

ALIEN!
Pioneer

United States

#1124 Oct 2, 2012
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond [nor] free: but Christ [is] all, and in all.


SHADRACH IS AN ALIEN!
ROBERT TWO

Kent Town, Australia

#1125 Oct 2, 2012
birdman wrote:
<quoted text>
There would be no Theological reasons if people would sit down together with the Holy Spirit and go thru the Bible and Bible alone!!!
Individual have always done that.
But they are so few and far between.
The SDA church is run from the top down and those lead by the HOLY SPIRIT are hunted down.
It has be the same in all ages.
ROBERT TWO

Kent Town, Australia

#1126 Oct 2, 2012
OH yes the HOLY SPIRIT sends people to talk to people as the BIBLE text ANGELS UNAWARES ????
bluebird

Stuart, FL

#1127 Oct 2, 2012
Wintsmith wrote:
Back to the original question, why do people leave Adventist church? Of course reasons vary, but in my experience, people leave because they didn't find belonging.
I am the author of two books about Adventists. The most recent one is CHURCH SCHOOL BLUES, available on amazon.com . This is a story of bullying in church schools, but numerous issues are touched upon, including that of people who convert to Adventism and are then ignored by the members in the church they join; and end up leaving out of loneliness. Congregations -- not just Adventist -- but any religious group tends to be cliquish -- and we talk about how we should ignore the people and focus on the Truth until we are blue in the face, but faith without a sense of belonging is a lonely walk.
I so agree with this. My two children, son and dau, choose to go to SDA colleges, Southern, then Andrews. Both after leaving, no longer were SDA. They were both leaders in the community, son volunteer of year in high school, never went to SDA schools, and such cliquishness. Meaness at Andrews. My daughter thought they worshiped EGW more than Jesus. At Southern, they sent my son home from Vespers, first time, because he had sandels on!!! WOW, JESUS WORE SANDELS most likely. He was praised in our community for his science and involvment, but meant to feel like dirt and all privilaeges taken away, his car, etc. because he missed worships too many times in the dorm. He was a physics student, and also worked. He left the second semester and used his scholarship from state university, where he graduated Suma Cum Laude in Physics, honors in the major, and won the NASA award.
My daughter left Andrews after one year. Wish after a semester, because they destroyed her beliefs. Cruel. Once when she volunteered on a mission group, the leader told her she and her children (if she had them) would go to hell as she was true to a boyfriend who was Jewish back home. Go figure. It seems more truth in the church than others, but the control, officials, conferences, seem almost, can't find the right word. Misguided? to put it nicely.
Sorry, got carried away from frustration and hurt what happened.
ROBERT TWO

Australia

#1128 Oct 2, 2012
bluebird wrote:
<quoted text>
I so agree with this. My two children, son and dau, choose to go to SDA colleges, Southern, then Andrews. Both after leaving, no longer were SDA. They were both leaders in the community, son volunteer of year in high school, never went to SDA schools, and such cliquishness. Meaness at Andrews. My daughter thought they worshiped EGW more than Jesus. At Southern, they sent my son home from Vespers, first time, because he had sandels on!!! WOW, JESUS WORE SANDELS most likely. He was praised in our community for his science and involvment, but meant to feel like dirt and all privilaeges taken away, his car, etc. because he missed worships too many times in the dorm. He was a physics student, and also worked. He left the second semester and used his scholarship from state university, where he graduated Suma Cum Laude in Physics, honors in the major, and won the NASA award.
My daughter left Andrews after one year. Wish after a semester, because they destroyed her beliefs. Cruel. Once when she volunteered on a mission group, the leader told her she and her children (if she had them) would go to hell as she was true to a boyfriend who was Jewish back home. Go figure. It seems more truth in the church than others, but the control, officials, conferences, seem almost, can't find the right word. Misguided? to put it nicely.
Sorry, got carried away from frustration and hurt what happened.
This has happened to many people including me.
The schools have no idea how much damage they are doing.
Manny

Miami, FL

#1129 Oct 2, 2012
Why do people leave the Adventist Church?

Because the service is over and all the carob brownies from the potluck gone?

because they can't stand the thought of playing another game of Uno?

Because they want to watch Modern Family ?

Because they can't watch another Agatha Thrash video?
ROBERT TWO

Australia

#1130 Oct 3, 2012
birdman wrote:
<quoted text>
There would be no Theological reasons if people would sit down together with the Holy Spirit and go thru the Bible and Bible alone!!!
The church leaders will not sit down in public and talk this through.
They are in charge and require SECRECY as they rule not TRUTH.
birdman

Mattoon, IL

#1131 Oct 3, 2012
ROBERT TWO wrote:
<quoted text>
The church leaders will not sit down in public and talk this through.
They are in charge and require SECRECY as they rule not TRUTH.
LOOK ON HERE< THE SAME THING

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