Col. 2: 13-22, what is your take?

Col. 2: 13-22, what is your take?

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Kevin McMillen

Morgantown, WV

#1 Jan 22, 2013
Please explain your understanding of Col. 2
birdman

Mattoon, IL

#2 Jan 22, 2013
Col.2:13

"And you,being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh"

[Speaks of spiritual death]

"has He quickened together with Him, having forgiven you all trepasses"

[being made spiritually alive by being born again]
birdman

Mattoon, IL

#4 Jan 22, 2013
Col.2:14

"Blotting out the handwriting of Ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way nailing it to the Cross."

Moses was told to write the ordinances in a book. These were the Ceremonial laws contained in ordinancespertaining to sacrificial laws.[Eph 2:15-16] also [Heb. 10:1-4]

more later
Rockroller

Yucaipa, CA

#5 Jan 22, 2013
Kevin McMillen wrote:
Please explain your understanding of Col. 2
It's an out right lie--from Satan! It is totally gnostic and against what Jesus said and taught.

Now read Col. 1:24 and see the blasphemy Paul wrote about Jesus not suffering enough! Why on earth would anyone EVER want to follow the words of someone who admitted to lying, cheating, murder, deceiving, cursing Jesus, cursing God's angels, having a demon inside him, saying he was the chief sinner, teach lawlessness and many more evil things!? Huh?
Rockroller

Yucaipa, CA

#6 Jan 22, 2013
birdman wrote:
Col.2:13
"And you,being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh"
[Speaks of spiritual death]
"has He quickened together with Him, having forgiven you all trepasses"
[being made spiritually alive by being born again]
What the heck is a spiritual death? Huh? Is it what you find the ten virgins doing when Jesus comes--as Sardis (Rev. 3:1-6)
yoyo

United States

#7 Jan 22, 2013
Most modern pastors teach an antinomian, greasy grace pseudo Paul that turns their pew warmers into SAUL clones who persecute and hate genuine believers and followers of Jesus and the bible.

“Jesus is coming again!”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#9 Jan 22, 2013
Colossians 2:14 (KJV)
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Deuteronomy 31:26 (KJV)
Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

The hand writing of Moses you seem to be referring to and not the tables of stone. The ordinance of sacrifice etc. if I am correct.

“Jesus is coming again!”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#10 Jan 22, 2013
Signs of the Times wrote:
Colossians 2:14 (KJV)
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Deuteronomy 31:26 (KJV)
Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

The hand writing of Moses you seem to be referring to and not the tables of stone. The ordinance of sacrifice etc. if I am correct.
Fulfilled sacrifices at the cross:

1 Corinthians 13:10 (KJV)
But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
birdman

Mattoon, IL

#11 Jan 23, 2013
Col. 2:16

"Let no man therefore judge you in meat,or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath Days."

V17 "Which are a shadow of things to come."

Paul uses the word "Days" shows that he was referring to a great number of days which were observed by the Hebrews as festivals as part of the ceremonial laws.

No part of the "Moral Law" [10C's] could be spoken of as being a shadow of things to come.

"shadow of things to come" were laws that foreshadowed the coming of Christ, the slaying of lambs and goats, keeping of yearly Passover and all the festivals were taken away by the death of our Saviour Jesue Christ on the Cross.
Kevin McMillen

Morgantown, WV

#12 Jan 23, 2013
birdman wrote:
Col.2:14
"Blotting out the handwriting of Ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way nailing it to the Cross."
Moses was told to write the ordinances in a book. These were the Ceremonial laws contained in ordinancespertaining to sacrificial laws.[Eph 2:15-16] also [Heb. 10:1-4]
more later
o.k. I was waiting for the SDA explanation of this.

Here goes.....

We see in verse 13 that Paul is plainly talking to gentiles because they were dead in the uncircumcision of their flesh. They were uncircumcised.

Then he tells them that Jesus had forgiven them of their sins/tresspasses.

Next he tells them how.

By blotting out the "cheirographon" of dogma that was against them.

So, please tell me you biblical illiterates who think this is referring to the ceremonial laws.

How were the ceremonial laws ever against gentiles? How could the doing away of ceremonial laws ever remove the sins of gentiles?

**********

Now for you biblical illiterates that think this refers to the Ten Commandments, please tell me.

Were gentiles ever party to the Ten Commandment Covenant? If not, how does doing away with the Ten Commandments remove the sins of gentiles? How were the Ten Commandments ever against gentiles.

**********

Everyone, just answer those two simple questions and then I'll explain to you what Paul is saying here:

1. How were the "cheirographon" of dogma against gentiles?

2. How did the blotting out of the "cheirographon" of dogma remove gentiles sins?

Kevin McMillen
Kevin McMillen

Morgantown, WV

#13 Jan 23, 2013
Signs of the Times wrote:
Colossians 2:14 (KJV)
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Deuteronomy 31:26 (KJV)
Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
The hand writing of Moses you seem to be referring to and not the tables of stone. The ordinance of sacrifice etc. if I am correct.
Please see my post #12
Kevin McMillen

Morgantown, WV

#14 Jan 23, 2013
Signs of the Times wrote:
Colossians 2:14 (KJV)
Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
Deuteronomy 31:26 (KJV)
Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the Lord your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.
The hand writing of Moses you seem to be referring to and not the tables of stone. The ordinance of sacrifice etc. if I am correct.
Please see my post # 12
Kevin McMillen

Morgantown, WV

#15 Jan 23, 2013
birdman wrote:
Col. 2:16
"Let no man therefore judge you in meat,or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath Days."
V17 "Which are a shadow of things to come."
Paul uses the word "Days" shows that he was referring to a great number of days which were observed by the Hebrews as festivals as part of the ceremonial laws.
No part of the "Moral Law" [10C's] could be spoken of as being a shadow of things to come.
"shadow of things to come" were laws that foreshadowed the coming of Christ, the slaying of lambs and goats, keeping of yearly Passover and all the festivals were taken away by the death of our Saviour Jesue Christ on the Cross.
Birdman,

The greek word used in Col. 2:16 for sabbaths or sabbath days is sabbaton. Yes it is plural.

Here are other instances where the exact same word is used.

Mat 28:1 ¶ In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first [day] of the ""week"", came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

The word week here is sabbaton. I'll place "" "" on the rest of the words that are also sabbaton.

Mar 16:2 And very early in the morning the first [day] of the ""week"", they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

Luk 4:16 ¶ And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the ""sabbath" " day, and stood up for to read.

Luk 24:1 ¶ Now upon the first [day] of the ""week"", very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain [others] with them.

Jhn 20:1 ¶ The first [day] of the ""week"" cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

Jhn 20:19 ¶ Then the same day at evening, being the first [day] of the ""week"", when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace [be] unto you.

Act 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the ""sabbath" " day, and sat down.

Act 20:7 ¶ And upon the first [day] of the ""week"", when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

So there you have it, the usage in the bible of the word sabbaton. Legitimate bible study requires letting the bible interpret the bible.

Does this word denote yearly sabbaths or weekly sabbaths?

I think it's plain that it denotes weekly sabbaths.

The Sabbath is indeed a shadow or type of things to come, it is a shadow or type of the millenium. It is a shadow or a type of the rest that we'll have in Christ when we are finally resurected.

Sure we have rest in Christ now, but we don't fully enter that rest until the resurection.

The SDA explanation of Col. 2 is extremely faulty.

Kevin
birdman

Mattoon, IL

#16 Jan 23, 2013
Kevin McMillen wrote:
<quoted text>
o.k. I was waiting for the SDA explanation of this.
Here goes.....
We see in verse 13 that Paul is plainly talking to gentiles because they were dead in the uncircumcision of their flesh. They were uncircumcised.
Then he tells them that Jesus had forgiven them of their sins/tresspasses.
Next he tells them how.
By blotting out the "cheirographon" of dogma that was against them.
So, please tell me you biblical illiterates who think this is referring to the ceremonial laws.
How were the ceremonial laws ever against gentiles? How could the doing away of ceremonial laws ever remove the sins of gentiles?
**********
Now for you biblical illiterates that think this refers to the Ten Commandments, please tell me.
Were gentiles ever party to the Ten Commandment Covenant? If not, how does doing away with the Ten Commandments remove the sins of gentiles? How were the Ten Commandments ever against gentiles.
**********
Everyone, just answer those two simple questions and then I'll explain to you what Paul is saying here:
1. How were the "cheirographon" of dogma against gentiles?
2. How did the blotting out of the "cheirographon" of dogma remove gentiles sins?
Kevin McMillen
Seems you know very little, ignorance is showing
Kevin McMillen

Morgantown, WV

#17 Jan 23, 2013
birdman wrote:
<quoted text>
Seems you know very little, ignorance is showing
I'm ignorant? Answer the question. Paul was talking to gentiles, if you believe the "cheirographon" of dogma was the law of Moses, tell me how the law of Moses was against gentiles?

Show me your intelligence!
birdman

Mattoon, IL

#18 Jan 23, 2013
Kevin McMillen wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm ignorant? Answer the question. Paul was talking to gentiles, if you believe the "cheirographon" of dogma was the law of Moses, tell me how the law of Moses was against gentiles?
Show me your intelligence!
Heb.10:4

Tells that there was no ways the sins were paid for. This would be for us all if it was not for the Cross.

God COULD not go back on His Word. Penalty of sin was death.

Penalty had to be paid for.
"handwriting" God told Moses to write all the things He said in a book

the only thing written by God was the 10Cs
Kevin McMillen

Morgantown, WV

#19 Jan 23, 2013
birdman wrote:
<quoted text>
Heb.10:4
Tells that there was no ways the sins were paid for. This would be for us all if it was not for the Cross.
God COULD not go back on His Word. Penalty of sin was death.
Penalty had to be paid for.
"handwriting" God told Moses to write all the things He said in a book
the only thing written by God was the 10Cs
You make absolutely no sense birdman. Israel was the only one that agreed (covenanted) to abide by the book of the law, not gentiles.

gentiles were never a party to the Mt. Sinai covenant nor the Mt. Horeb covenant nor any other covenant with God up until Jesus.

You believe that the cheirographon (handwriting) of dogma was the book of the law placed on the side of the Ark. This book of the law was only for Israel.

Once again, How was it against gentiles?

I'm not saying that the "cheirographon" of dogma was not against gentiles, for Paul plainly says it was.

What I'm saying is that your explanation that it was the book of the law of Moses is completely wrong.

The book of the law of Moses was never against gentiles.

The only thing that was ever against gentiles and Israelites was the record of our sins.

It is fact from the bible that God keeps a record of our sins.

This is what was blotted out, not the book of the law.

Paul said that they, being dead in the uncircumcision of their flesh, has Christ made alive, by blotting out the record of our sins that was against us.

Any moron that thinks that "handwriting of requirements" that "cheirographon of dogma" was the law of Moses on the side of the Ark or even the Ten Commandments are complete biblical; illiterates.

Which you birdman have shown that you are.

In plain language, what was blotted out, "THE RECORD OF OUR SINS"

This is how it was against gentiles as well as Israelites you morons.

You people think you have a clue about what the bible says when you haven't the slightest idea. 99% of this forum and 99% of SDA are biblical illiterates.

You call yourselves the Remnant church when in reality the closest you come to the true church is being Thyatira.

You claim to have the Spirit of Prophecy in Ellens writings when in fact you have the ramblings of a false prophetess which the bible calls Jezabel.

The only thing you do have is the Sabbath, and you don't even know the real reason why you should keep the Sabbath.

The Ten Commandments were part of the Old Covenant which was ended at Christ's death. Read it in your own bible "The words of the covenant the Ten Commandments".

We are not to keep the Sabbath because of the fourth commandment you morons, we keep it because it was made for us on the seventh day. It was made for us by Jesus Christ.

That is why we keep the Sabbath not because of something that was written on stone.

It's too bad you people are too ignorant to see the coruption under your whitewashed sepulchers.

This place should be called the Thyatira forum!
Kevin McMillen

Morgantown, WV

#20 Jan 23, 2013
For those of you who have been falsely taught that the Ten Commandments could never be against us here is the truth.

When you broke/break one of the Ten Commandments then they are against you, they require your death.

What requirements is Paul talking about here? The requirement of our death.

God keeps a record of our sins, the requirements for those sins is death.

Jesus came to blot out that record of our sins, nailing it to his cross in his own body.

That is what Paul is talking about in Col. 2 not the nonsense that you have been taught by the SDA Thyatira cult.

Paul was also telling the Collosians to actually keep the New Moons, Holy Days, and the weekly Sabbath day. Because there were pharisaical christians telling them that they were keeping them wrong. They wanted them to keep the traditions of the fathers as seen in verse 22.

The commandments and doctrines of men were not the writings of Moses, they were the Pharisaical oral traditions of the fathers as we can find in the Mishnah.

Paul told them not to let anyone judge them in how they kept the New Moons, Holy Days, and weekly sabbath days, because they were shadows of things to come.

This was written decades after Jesus crucifixion. They did not point just to Jesus on the cross, they pointed to his entire salvation plan.

They are shadows or types of things to come yet in the future. We are still to keep the new moons holy days and weekly sabbaths because they show how God is saving mankind.

Most on here know of Ps. 77:13 that says Thy ways oh God are in thy sanctuary.

The SDA love this verse, but they have no clue what it means.

The word sanctuary in Hebrew is qodesh.

God's ways are in his qodesh.

Do any of you realize that when God told Israel in Lev. 23 that his Sabbath and all his Feasts were Holy Convocations that the word Holy is qodesh?

No, I'm sure none of you are biblically literate enough to know that. You have your preconceived biases.

You don't understand what I've been writing to you so you call me ignorant when in reality it is you who are ignorant.

I bet none of you have a very good grasp of how to use a Strongs concordance, an Englishmans greek concordance, or a Hebrew or Greek interlinear.

Most SDA just look up the english word in the bible, look where that english word is used elsewhere and make their theology that way. You don't even know that most english words are translated from a variety of Hebrew or Greek words.

You look up the word ordinance in Col. 2, then you see it in Heb. and say "oh, looky there, those ordinances were fleshly and done away" well guess what fool, they are two totally different greek words.

The way you guys study the bible in like a 5 year old in kindergarten.

Almost none of you have a clue and when someone is on here that cabn actually teach you a thing or two, you call them names and refuse to try to understand what is written.

Most of you make me sick. You call yourselves followers of Christ, yeah right!
birdman

Mattoon, IL

#21 Jan 23, 2013
Kevin McMillen wrote:
<quoted text>
You make absolutely no sense birdman. Israel was the only one that agreed (covenanted) to abide by the book of the law, not gentiles.
gentiles were never a party to the Mt. Sinai covenant nor the Mt. Horeb covenant nor any other covenant with God up until Jesus.
You believe that the cheirographon (handwriting) of dogma was the book of the law placed on the side of the Ark. This book of the law was only for Israel.
Once again, How was it against gentiles?
I'm not saying that the "cheirographon" of dogma was not against gentiles, for Paul plainly says it was.
What I'm saying is that your explanation that it was the book of the law of Moses is completely wrong.
The book of the law of Moses was never against gentiles.
The only thing that was ever against gentiles and Israelites was the record of our sins.
It is fact from the bible that God keeps a record of our sins.
This is what was blotted out, not the book of the law.
Paul said that they, being dead in the uncircumcision of their flesh, has Christ made alive, by blotting out the record of our sins that was against us.
Any moron that thinks that "handwriting of requirements" that "cheirographon of dogma" was the law of Moses on the side of the Ark or even the Ten Commandments are complete biblical; illiterates.
Which you birdman have shown that you are.
In plain language, what was blotted out, "THE RECORD OF OUR SINS"
This is how it was against gentiles as well as Israelites you morons.
You people think you have a clue about what the bible says when you haven't the slightest idea. 99% of this forum and 99% of SDA are biblical illiterates.
You call yourselves the Remnant church when in reality the closest you come to the true church is being Thyatira.
You claim to have the Spirit of Prophecy in Ellens writings when in fact you have the ramblings of a false prophetess which the bible calls Jezabel.
The only thing you do have is the Sabbath, and you don't even know the real reason why you should keep the Sabbath.
The Ten Commandments were part of the Old Covenant which was ended at Christ's death. Read it in your own bible "The words of the covenant the Ten Commandments".
We are not to keep the Sabbath because of the fourth commandment you morons, we keep it because it was made for us on the seventh day. It was made for us by Jesus Christ.
That is why we keep the Sabbath not because of something that was written on stone.
It's too bad you people are too ignorant to see the coruption under your whitewashed sepulchers.
This place should be called the Thyatira forum!
Read your bible instead of mouthing off about someone.

WHO CAME OUT OF EGYPT?????
Kevin McMillen

Morgantown, WV

#22 Jan 23, 2013
birdman wrote:
<quoted text>
Read your bible instead of mouthing off about someone.
WHO CAME OUT OF EGYPT?????
Who came out of Egypt?

Ah, now here's the typology that you refuse to understand.

Egypt was a type of sin. Sin is bondage.

We, all of mankind have to come out of the bondage of sin.

What God was doing with Israel was play acting his plan of salvation for all of mankind.

Israel coming out of Egypt was a type of mankind coming out of sin.

Can't you see the relevance of the days of unleavened bread for all of us here?

How about the Feast of Tabernacles.

Who lived in tents for 40 years?

Tents are temperary dwellings. Our bodies are temperary. Just as Israel wandered looking for their permanent home in the Promised land so too we/all of mankind wander for 7,000 years searching for our permanent home in the ultimate promised land.

This is why during the millenium that even Egypt a gentile nation will keep the Feast of Tabernacles. Zech 14:16

Oh that's right, you all have been spoon fed the lie by Ellen that the earth will be desolate for the millenium. Lie, lie, lie.

What's wrong, the supposed Remnant church, the one that supposedly has the Spirit of Prophecy doesn't understand these simple biblical prophetic truths?

I wonder who really has the Spirit of Prophecy because it sure isn't the SDA Thyatira cult.

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