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Shadrach

Santa Clara, CA

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#1
Sep 10, 2011
 

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By Dr Russel Tardo

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind (Rom. 14:1-2,5).

In this chapter, the apostle Paul speaks of two kinds of believers: the mature believer who knows his position in Christ, and the weak believer whose faith in Christ is newly found, and who is yet to be fully delivered from a legal, Old Testament mindset. His reference to the “weak” believer undoubtedly alludes to recent Jewish converts to Christianity who brought many of their Judaistic practices with them into the church, such as their dietary restrictions (vss. 2-3), and their sabbath and holy day observances (vss. 5-6).

Instead of rebuking or rejecting these weaker brethren, they were to be received into fellowship and given a chance to grow in faith. Paul knew that, given time and teaching, they would mature in faith and come to grasp their true liberty in Christ (John 8:31-32).

Three important things should be noted about this passage:
First, it is easily observed that it was the weak Christians who had Jewish scruples about clean and unclean foods, while the strong believer knew that he could eat all things (vs. 2a; cf. 1 Cor. 10:25; 1 Tim. 4:3-5). It is also clearly observed that the weak believer esteemed one day (the sabbath) above others, while the mature Christian esteemed all days alike (vs. 5). The weak saint has been well described as follows:

“The weakness is weakness in respect of faith. The weak man is one who does not fully appreciate what his Christianity means; in particular, he does not see that the soul which has committed itself to Christ for salvation is emancipated from all law but that which is involved in its responsibility to Him. Hence, his conscience is fettered by scruples in regard to customs dating from pre-Christian days.”

Paul’s concern was that the stronger brethren bear patiently with these young converts, and not condemn them about their scruples (vss. 3-4, 10,13). Previously, they may have been prohibited from participating in the church’s worship because of their defective faith. Here, Paul urges a tolerant patience. They were to be received as brothers in the
Lord, since their belief in Christ was genuine.(vss. 3,6,8,18), though their knowledge of Him was rudimentary.

These weaker believers thought they were serving God by maintaining the Jewish dietary regulations and day observances:

He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord…he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not…(vs.6).
Their motive was good though their conscience was weak and their understanding of Christianity incomplete.

Second, this passage cannot be used to condone sabbath observance today. Paul was dealing with a unique situation in a unique time. These new converts to Christ had come out of Judaism where sabbath keeping was mandated as the continuing sign of their covenant with God. It was natural for them to still have scruples about the sabbath after a lifetime of having its sacred observance driven into them. Therefore, they were to be welcomed into the Christian community of fellowship, allowed to grow without condemnation over their scruples, and considered true brethren in the Lord (unless they made sabbath keeping a condition for salvation, sanctification or fellowship).

However, the Scriptures are very clear, both from the immediate context (vs. 1), and from the teaching of the New Testament as a whole (Acts 15; 2 Cor. 3:3; 6-17; Gal. 4:9-11; 5:1; Col. 2:16-17, etc.), that these weaker brothers were not to be allowed to become troublesome and attempt to impose their legalistic scruples on the church.
Shadrach

Santa Clara, CA

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#2
Sep 10, 2011
 

Judged:

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Third, Romans 14 sets forth the important principle of toleration in the church, particularly in regard to weaker believers (new converts). We are not to tolerate sin, or overlook error, but Christians must give new believers time to grow in their knowledge of the Lord (1 Peter 2:2).

Thus it can be observed, that sabbath keeping is not a mark of a mature (or “sanctified”) Christian, as sabbatarians would have us to believe. Rather, it is the distinct mark of the “weak” believer, who has a great need to grow in faith and in the true knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.

I Shadrach agree with this Dr's specific presentation for I have not investigated all of Tardo's work.
Rockroller

Yucaipa, CA

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#3
Sep 10, 2011
 

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Shadrach wrote:
Third, Romans 14 sets forth the important principle of toleration in the church, particularly in regard to weaker believers (new converts). We are not to tolerate sin, or overlook error, but Christians must give new believers time to grow in their knowledge of the Lord (1 Peter 2:2).
Thus it can be observed, that sabbath keeping is not a mark of a mature (or “sanctified”) Christian, as sabbatarians would have us to believe. Rather, it is the distinct mark of the “weak” believer, who has a great need to grow in faith and in the true knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ.
I Shadrach agree with this Dr's specific presentation for I have not investigated all of Tardo's work.
So Shadrack must think that Jesus was a 'new convert' huh? Jesus didn't even have or need any faith and He kept the Sabbath. I don't have and faith either and I keep the Sabbath and follow ONLY the words of Jesus Christ as do those found in Rev. 12:17.

The five foolish 'virgins' in Matt. 25:1-13 had lots more faith than those who brought with them more oil! See what MORE faith did to them? Were is there any of God's so called 'grace' for them?

Question: Will anyone need any 'faith' in heaven?
yoyo7th

Solana Beach, CA

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#4
Sep 13, 2011
 

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[QUOTE “The weakness is weakness in respect of faith. The weak man is one who does not fully appreciate what his Christianity means; in particular, he does not see that the soul which has committed itself to Christ for salvation is emancipated from all law but that which is involved in its responsibility to Him. Hence, his conscience is fettered by scruples in regard to customs dating from pre-Christian days.”
Paul’s concern was that the stronger brethren bear patiently with these young converts, and not condemn them about their scruples (vss. 3-4, 10,13). Previously, they may have been prohibited from participating in the church’s worship because of their defective faith. Here, Paul urges a tolerant patience. They were to be received as brothers in the
Lord, since their belief in Christ was genuine.(vss. 3,6,8,18), though their knowledge of Him was rudimentary.
These weaker believers thought they were serving God by maintaining the Jewish dietary regulations and day observances:
He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord…he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not…(vs.6).
Their motive was good though their conscience was weak and their understanding of Christianity incomplete.
Second, this passage cannot be used to condone sabbath observance today. Paul was dealing with a unique situation in a unique time. These new converts to Christ had come out of Judaism where sabbath keeping was mandated as the continuing sign of their covenant with God. It was natural for them to still have scruples about the sabbath after a lifetime of having its sacred observance driven into them. Therefore, they were to be welcomed into the Christian community of fellowship, allowed to grow without condemnation over their scruples, and considered true brethren in the Lord (unless they made sabbath keeping a condition for salvation, sanctification or fellowship).
However, the Scriptures are very clear, both from the immediate context (vs. 1), and from the teaching of the New Testament as a whole (Acts 15; 2 Cor. 3:3; 6-17; Gal. 4:9-11; 5:1; Col. 2:16-17, etc.), that these weaker brothers were not to be allowed to become troublesome and attempt to impose their legalistic scruples on the church.
[/QUOTE]

PAUL was BAD and WEAK for making the whole town come back a WHOLE week later to hear more of JESUS and the gospel. Too bad he esteemed one day above another.
ACTS 13:44
yoyo7th

Solana Beach, CA

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#5
Sep 13, 2011
 
10 commandment trashers = carnal churchian criminal JESUS haters
Birdman

Springfield, IL

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#6
Sep 13, 2011
 
yoyo7th wrote:
<quoted text>
PAUL was BAD and WEAK for making the whole town come back a WHOLE week later to hear more of JESUS and the gospel. Too bad he esteemed one day above another.
ACTS 13:44
LIES AND GARBBAGE, TRASH MAN WILL COME
Christine Hurwin

United States

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#7
Sep 13, 2011
 

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The apostle Paul did not want to get the New Belivers mixed up in all the Jewish regulations
and various tedious rules. Paul taught and wanted
the New Beliver to be in a close faith filled relationship with Jesus not one built on Works. This
was new, and not understood by the new Jewish converts. Paul had to go over and over it with them
because they were so use to a work oriented salvation and the Law. That is why the book of Galations is there to help the New Beliver and one
the Adventist need to read over and over again.

Remember Galations reads Did you receive the Holy Spirit by observing the Law, or by believing what you heard.Are you trying to gain your goal by human effort??? Does'nt EGW say you must receive your
salvation by your own diligent effort????This is
the very thing that the Galations were doing. And
the Apostle Paul was trying to teach them a new way
of a faith centered relationship with Jesus not of the
Law and of works.

Since: Nov 09

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#8
Sep 13, 2011
 

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Paul you are such a deceitful person, coming to this board with so much rot and lies and game playing with your other self Diane.

You are pathetic. You never really what others write and it shows by the way you answer and comment. You are doing the work of the devil on this forum.

Oh and yes I have to tell you my numbers for this post is lol

1844

Since: Nov 09

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#9
Sep 13, 2011
 
Edit ~ Never really read what others write.
Maria

Madison, AL

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#10
Sep 10, 2012
 
Sir,
Nowhere in romans 14 does it mention the word "sabbath" or "judism".The words "eat" 15x's, "meat" 4x's and "drink" 1x's. The 'days' being refered to are the fasting days. You are reading into the chapter, like most christian faiths do.
Pioneer

Rochester, PA

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#13
Sep 10, 2012
 
Shadrach wrote:
By Dr Russel Tardo
Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind (Rom. 14:1-2,5).
All of this garbage written above Shadrach prefers to believe instead of what the Bible actually says.

What is refereed to above has nothing to do with Bible Sabbath keeping.

Shadrach and this trash talking

Evangelical are saying that
Jesus Christ was week in Faith for he said...If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

John 15:10
Dennis

Yucaipa, CA

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#14
Sep 10, 2012
 

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Paul was wrong in saying that the righteous live by faith: if you are righteous you don't need to live by faith, because you no longer need it at all.

Jesus was completely righteous, Jesus had NO faith; HE KNEW who He was/is, and HE knew who His Father was. I want to be like Jesus.
A Voice In The Wilderness

Langhorne, PA

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#15
Sep 10, 2012
 

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Dennis wrote:
Paul was wrong in saying that the righteous live by faith: if you are righteous you don't need to live by faith, because you no longer need it at all.
Jesus was completely righteous, Jesus had NO faith; HE KNEW who He was/is, and HE knew who His Father was. I want to be like Jesus.
In other words you want to be like Jesus and have no faith...

Are you listening to yourself???
Dennis

Yucaipa, CA

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#16
Sep 10, 2012
 

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A Voice In The Wilderness wrote:
<quoted text>
In other words you want to be like Jesus and have no faith...
Are you listening to yourself???
Yes. For what earthly reason would Jesus need faith? Was there anything that Jesus did not know about truth, except when He was to return to earth (Matt. 24:36)? You tell me. If Jesus needed 'faith' then He was not the Son of God.
A Voice In The Wilderness

Langhorne, PA

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#17
Sep 10, 2012
 

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Dennis wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes. For what earthly reason would Jesus need faith? Was there anything that Jesus did not know about truth, except when He was to return to earth (Matt. 24:36)? You tell me. If Jesus needed 'faith' then He was not the Son of God.
Please explain what the 'Faith of Jesus' is in the book of Revelation.

Unfortunately, you are making Jesus unlike all of us at all. Jesus had to learn obedience and attain perfection of character just how we are to do it through the power of the Holy Spirit. You are walking very dangerous ground.
yoyo

San Diego, CA

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#18
Sep 10, 2012
 

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Birdman wrote:
<quoted text>
LIES AND GARBBAGE, TRASH MAN WILL COME
I was using a premise from the original post to show that if you take this day observance in the absolute sense , then Paul was a phoney hypocrite.

And all Catholics and Protestants must be weak for observing SUNday, Chrsitmas, Easter, whatever..
yoyo

San Diego, CA

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#19
Sep 10, 2012
 
SUNday keepers are WEAKER in the faith
Maria

Madison, AL

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#20
Sep 11, 2012
 
Since obeying God and the day HE sancitified and blessed from the beginning of time (just like marriage and marriage between a man and woman), I am much more stronger in my walk, my understanding of the Word, my faith and my love for HIM. I am overwhelmed with all that God is showing me ever since I have been realized that He meant what he said about the 4th command. He is the same "today, yesterday and forever". Since coming out of the "sun god" worship day, I can now see who the weak in the faith are. In the churches, sunday mornings is where you find the weak in faith.
Maria

Madison, AL

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#21
Sep 11, 2012
 
p.s. I was one of them so I'm not trying to elevate myself. I sympathize with them because they are being led away from the Word of God.
Rockroller

Colorado Springs, CO

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#22
Sep 11, 2012
 
A Voice In The Wilderness wrote:
<quoted text>
Please explain what the 'Faith of Jesus' is in the book of Revelation.
Unfortunately, you are making Jesus unlike all of us at all. Jesus had to learn obedience and attain perfection of character just how we are to do it through the power of the Holy Spirit. You are walking very dangerous ground.
Revelation makes it clear that only those who trust completely in the words of Jesus (the testimony of Jesus) and keep all of the commandments will be the ones who become the bondservants for Jesus and called the 144,000.

Here is why; FAITH allows one to believe in lies without feeling guilty for not searching for and practicing the truth.

Here is another rather interesting definition of what faith is:

Faith - claiming to know things that one does not know.

In essence, faith is a knowledge claim. Faith claims to know with certainty in the absence of knowledge (or evidence that would lead to knowledge), and I think that's what differs the idea from the belief, because belief lacks certainty that faith claims.

In that sense, I think it would be fair to define faith as pretending to know things one does not know. I know that it may seem like a rather odd definition, because "pretending" is an active verb that implies a form of deception... but nevertheless, couldn't the faith be fairly viewed as a form of self-deception about knowing things that one does not know?

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