Freemasonry in Adventism
Tim

Sydney, Australia

#498 May 28, 2011
edwin wrote:
please expound article 24 of sda doctrine:the work of Jesus in the heaven sactuary
the I J is not at all biblical there is not one verse in the entire bible to say that the blood of the sacrifice was defiled with sin..the whole doctrine is MASONIC tell the people lies while the leaders walk an entirely different theological way... amazing facts are code for AMAZING LIES
Lay Worker

Perth, Australia

#499 May 28, 2011
Tim wrote:
<quoted text>
the I J is not at all biblical there is not one verse in the entire bible to say that the blood of the sacrifice was defiled with sin..the whole doctrine is MASONIC tell the people lies while the leaders walk an entirely different theological way... amazing facts are code for AMAZING LIES
Actually there is a pre-advent judgment - otherwise God could not determine who to destroy with the Brightness of His coming

++++++

2Thes

1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.]

+++++

and again as has been requested there is nothing in the Bible of an IJ of the saints.
ken

Saint Louis, MO

#500 May 29, 2011
The Hope Channel just ran a sermon called Babylon Rising with the Australian-American pastor (didnt catch the name). He mentioned

The Illuminati
The Trilateral Commission
The Freemasons

Up on the board. Then said something like "dont let this take your eye off the word of God". Yet God's word tells us not to be ignorant of the devil's devices.

Do we warn the children about Harry Potter? Drugs? Freemasonry is no different, indeed more important as the source of wickednesses today, and part of the Roman beast.

That wasnt all he said..

He said the mark of the beast was anything babylonian. This is a pleasant change from only Sunday being the mark. Hopefully the rest of his series delivers.
Tim

Sydney, Australia

#501 May 29, 2011
Lay Worker wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually there is a pre-advent judgment - otherwise God could not determine who to destroy with the Brightness of His coming
++++++
2Thes
1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.]
+++++and again as has been requested there is nothing in the Bible of an IJ of the saints.
you are up to your OLD TRICKS I CAN SEE

THE simple answer IS ....the ones sealed with the Holy spirit of promise because they believed in the blood of the covenant shed for them and the gospel of their salvation>
BUT YOU DONT FOOL ANY FOR A MOMENT NO ONE REALLY BELIEVES YOU PRACTISE YOUR PROPAGANDA IT IS SO TRANSPARENT LIKE A BREAST PLATE OF MASONIC GLASS
Scott

Newton Center, MA

#502 May 29, 2011
I'm glad the Ellen White told that top Mason in Australia that God detested his involvement in it and got him to disjoin from them. No one should be involved in witchcraft/occult and Masons refer to their order as 'the craft' as witches/wiccans do- and both use the pentagram hexagram etc. but also no one should take oaths before others like they do (Matthew 5 says not to) and such blood oaths of secrecy (Jesus said He told nothing in secret) with their real death enforced penalties like they did to William Morgan of Batavia NY caused America's first third party, the Anti Masonic Party- It should be revived today due to what ken #500 listed but forgot the Council on Foreign Relations.
Initiation into any such order as the Masons etc. is basically a baptism into the darkside, and opens the window of the occult forces of evil. Their old axiom is Ordo ab Chao which means order through chaos- they CAUSE the choas/disorder and also get to suggest and have implemented the 'solution' which of course is a means to their end, furthering their end game/ agenda--the 'New World Order' as it says in latin under the Illuminati pyramid & eye seal. A book on paper money I found at the library gives the nonsense that the reverse of the 'Great Seal' shown on back of our (unconstitutional dept note)'dollar' says that it represents the strength and endurance blah blah of America with the 'all-seeing eye of Providence' watching over it.--ppfffffft!


The Anti-Masons started because folks were disgusted over seeing a Mason murdered by his 'brothers in the Craft' for spilling low level secrets in a booklet, and the murder covered up by the Freemason sheriff and judges etc. JFK was killed in a blatant outdoor temple of Freemasonry on the 33rd parallel on the day that pope Clement V who had issued the papal bull condeming the Knights Templar to death- November 22 0f 1307 was the day the pope said that the kings of Europe (of france mainly) could round up and burn the Templars, and so Masons got symbolic revenge against a catholic world leader on that same day 656 years later and left thei fingerprint all over it.

The KT's are the spiritual forefathers of the Masons and were obsessed with the pentagram hexagram and like DaVinci and modern Masons had the circle/square thing with their round chapels with square side buildings.
----------
BTW-does anyone know the REAL meaning of the Compass & Square that top Masons see it as symbolic of??
__________
*Tell any Masons you know about Ex-Masons For Jesus
-> www.EMFJ.org and www.Ephesians5-11.org
Tim

Sydney, Australia

#503 May 30, 2011
Scott wrote:
I'm glad the Ellen White told that top Mason in Australia that God detested his involvement in it and got him to disjoin from them. No one should be involved in witchcraft/occult and Masons refer to their order as 'the craft' as witches/wiccans do- and both use the pentagram hexagram etc. but also no one should take oaths before others like they do (Matthew 5 says not to) and such blood oaths of secrecy (Jesus said He told nothing in secret) with their real death enforced penalties like they did to William Morgan of Batavia NY caused America's first third party, the Anti Masonic Party- It should be revived today due to what ken #500 listed but forgot the Council on Foreign Relations.
Initiation into any such order as the Masons etc. is basically a baptism into the darkside, and opens the window of the occult forces of evil. Their old axiom is Ordo ab Chao which means order through chaos- they CAUSE the choas/disorder and also get to suggest and have implemented the 'solution' which of course is a means to their end, furthering their end game/ agenda--the 'New World Order' as it says in latin under the Illuminati pyramid & eye seal. A book on paper money I found at the library gives the nonsense that the reverse of the 'Great Seal' shown on back of our (unconstitutional dept note)'dollar' says that it represents the strength and endurance blah blah of America with the 'all-seeing eye of Providence' watching over it.--ppfffffft!
The Anti-Masons started because folks were disgusted over seeing a Mason murdered by his 'brothers in the Craft' for spilling low level secrets in a booklet, and the murder covered up by the Freemason sheriff and judges etc. JFK was killed in a blatant outdoor temple of Freemasonry on the 33rd parallel on the day that pope Clement V who had issued the papal bull condeming the Knights Templar to death- November 22 0f 1307 was the day the pope said that the kings of Europe (of france mainly) could round up and burn the Templars, and so Masons got symbolic revenge against a catholic world leader on that same day 656 years later and left thei fingerprint all over it.
The KT's are the spiritual forefathers of the Masons and were obsessed with the pentagram hexagram and like DaVinci and modern Masons had the circle/square thing with their round chapels with square side buildings.
----------
BTW-does anyone know the REAL meaning of the Compass & Square that top Masons see it as symbolic of??
__________
*Tell any Masons you know about Ex-Masons For Jesus
-> www.EMFJ.org and www.Ephesians5-11.org
I think you should look at this picture James and Ellen Concieved
http://archives.llu.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php...

then typ e into google the allseeg eye images ..

then type into google ellen white uses masonic words

a picture speaks a thousand words
Lay Worker

Perth, Australia

#504 May 30, 2011
Tim wrote:
<quoted text>
you are up to your OLD TRICKS I CAN SEE
THE simple answer IS ....the ones sealed with the Holy spirit of promise because they believed in the blood of the covenant shed for them and the gospel of their salvation>
BUT YOU DONT FOOL ANY FOR A MOMENT NO ONE REALLY BELIEVES YOU PRACTISE YOUR PROPAGANDA IT IS SO TRANSPARENT LIKE A BREAST PLATE OF MASONIC GLASS
Couple of Bible texts and the newt timbo falls apart with the usual indecipherable apology of mumbo
Tim

Sydney, Australia

#505 May 30, 2011
Lay Worker wrote:
<quoted text>
Couple of Bible texts and the newt timbo falls apart with the usual indecipherable apology of mumbo
I THINK YOU WEREN'T GIVEN ENOUGH HUGS AS CHILD!
I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU IN
YOU ARE like A SAILOR LOST IN THE DESERT OF YOUR OWN IMAGINATION
chet

Saint Louis, MO

#506 May 31, 2011
There are many problems in the SDA GC. Make no mistake about it Freemasons are in SDA at the GC causing these problems. Some of the liberal and ecumenical agends promoted are:

Christmas
Many Bible versions
Female pastors
general liberalism
ect..

Walter Veith has fallen for a shill. The shill was first on 3ABN which must have caused the guard to be let down, that 3ABN would host this shill. 3ABN like the GC is Freemason ran. This is evident by their support for Christmas and many many other agendas.

The shill is Mark Cleminson

Mark comes out making fantastic claims with no documentation, everything from levitation to seeing the "Egyptian god of death". But for Walter Veith the most toxic venom spewed by Cleminson was that the state police are members of the KKK (complete with bogus picture). This is very dangerous, not for shill Cleminson, for Walter Veith.

This information is a departure from Veith's more documented series on secret societies. Cleminson's claims are baseless and inflamitory. Police watching this on the ADtv must be very angry.

Granted the police can be demonstrated to be ran by Freemasons. They believe FM are good as the founding fathers were FM. Then to claim they are KKK is beyond all reason. Many of the police are minorities.

The KKK was a post Civil War masonic society to divide the newly free Blacks from the Protestants. The Roman Church did not want all the Blacks becoming Protestant. Crosses were often set ablaze to cause fear of anything Christian. Then the KKK was blamed on Protestants and not the Freemasons. The new KKK of today is largely a federal operation to demonize whites for anti-nationalist pro globalist affirmative action civil rights causes, unlike after the Civil War era. There is no real KKK as Cleminson would have us believe. As if the police are members of the KKK, doing what to minorities?

No, the entire presentation was poorly documented to say the least. The KKK was the crown of the story meant to cause Veith problems with law enforcement. All police will now associate Veith's name as the person who claims they are all KKK. FM is one thing but KKK is correctly considered a vicious slander.

Mark Cleminson on 3ABN
http://video.google.com/videoplay...
Tim

Sydney, Australia

#507 May 31, 2011
chet wrote:
There are many problems in the SDA GC. Make no mistake about it Freemasons are in SDA at the GC causing these problems. Some of the liberal and ecumenical agends promoted are:
Christmas
Many Bible versions
Female pastors
general liberalism
ect..
Walter Veith has fallen for a shill. The shill was first on 3ABN which must have caused the guard to be let down, that 3ABN would host this shill. 3ABN like the GC is Freemason ran. This is evident by their support for Christmas and many many other agendas.
The shill is Mark Cleminson
Mark comes out making fantastic claims with no documentation, everything from levitation to seeing the "Egyptian god of death". But for Walter Veith the most toxic venom spewed by Cleminson was that the state police are members of the KKK (complete with bogus picture). This is very dangerous, not for shill Cleminson, for Walter Veith.
This information is a departure from Veith's more documented series on secret societies. Cleminson's claims are baseless and inflamitory. Police watching this on the ADtv must be very angry.
Granted the police can be demonstrated to be ran by Freemasons. They believe FM are good as the founding fathers were FM. Then to claim they are KKK is beyond all reason. Many of the police are minorities.
The KKK was a post Civil War masonic society to divide the newly free Blacks from the Protestants. The Roman Church did not want all the Blacks becoming Protestant. Crosses were often set ablaze to cause fear of anything Christian. Then the KKK was blamed on Protestants and not the Freemasons. The new KKK of today is largely a federal operation to demonize whites for anti-nationalist pro globalist affirmative action civil rights causes, unlike after the Civil War era. There is no real KKK as Cleminson would have us believe. As if the police are members of the KKK, doing what to minorities?
No, the entire presentation was poorly documented to say the least. The KKK was the crown of the story meant to cause Veith problems with law enforcement. All police will now associate Veith's name as the person who claims they are all KKK. FM is one thing but KKK is correctly considered a vicious slander.
Mark Cleminson on 3ABN
http://video.google.com/videoplay...
THE REAL ISSUE IS FAR MORE SINISTER THEN THESE MERE LOWER ORDER DISTRACTIONS

it is all about control telling the masses one thing BUT THEY THEMSELVES WALK A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT SPIRITUAL DIRECTION.

tudy royal arch masonry and you will see Adventism and freemasonry is one an the same...but only those at the top of the pyramid are true masons the rest are just what albert pike called the DUMB CATTLE
new hampshire

Worcester, MA

#508 Jun 1, 2011
chet wrote:
Mark comes out making fantastic claims with no documentation, everything from levitation to seeing the "Egyptian god of death". But for Walter Veith the most toxic venom spewed by Cleminson was that the state police are members of the KKK (complete with bogus picture). This is very dangerous, not for shill Cleminson, for Walter Veith...
The KKK was the crown of the story meant to cause Veith problems with law enforcement. All police will now associate Veith's name as the person who claims they are all KKK.
Mark Cleminson on 3ABN
http://video.google.com/videoplay...
Chet,
Do you know what a shill is? Do you know what a testimony is? I think you need to look up these words. Testimonies are not suppose to be documented, footnoted academic talks for the purpose of research. They are personal stories. If you don't believe his story, fine. But if you expect documentation on personal testimonies, it would be much more than an hour long interview show is capable of.

Where exactly in the video does he say that all state police are KKK? He said the men were in kkk regalia, but I didn't hear "state police" even mentioned... if I missed it, give the time signature were I can find it.
Are you also saying that the whole purpose of this testimony was to give Veith problems? Are you also saying that law enforcement in general is watching 3ABN and now they will know to give Veith trouble because somehow this testimony is connecting all the dots?
Tim

Sydney, Australia

#509 Jun 1, 2011
new hampshire wrote:
<quoted text>
Chet,
Do you know what a shill is? Do you know what a testimony is? I think you need to look up these words. Testimonies are not suppose to be documented, footnoted academic talks for the purpose of research. They are personal stories. If you don't believe his story, fine. But if you expect documentation on personal testimonies, it would be much more than an hour long interview show is capable of.
Where exactly in the video does he say that all state police are KKK? He said the men were in kkk regalia, but I didn't hear "state police" even mentioned... if I missed it, give the time signature were I can find it.
Are you also saying that the whole purpose of this testimony was to give Veith problems? Are you also saying that law enforcement in general is watching 3ABN and now they will know to give Veith trouble because somehow this testimony is connecting all the dots?
YOU SOUND INTELLIGENT

surely you can see walter and this video are like kids talking in a sand pit about THE BIG WIDE WORLD AROUND THEM do any know why Charles Taze Russell became a 33 degree Mason????

It was because of the Masonic Influence of His Masonic Adventist peers......CHECK IT OUT ...ITS TRUE...WILLIAM MILLER a royal rch Mason of the Highest order as quote by Sylvester Bliss whom himself was an Adventist and chief editor of the "Signs of The Times" a millerite publication...

Ahuge portion of Adventist pioneers were FREEMASONS.......AND THE INFLUENCE IS STILL THEIR TO THIS DAY ever wondered why we seem to put

pyramids....obelisks......sing le shaped eye....inverted cross...cross inside triangles...five point stars....

type Adventist symbols into google and then Click on images and see if I am lieing ...then go to SDA Apostacy and look at the images their...

their is not just the images as it is all about doctrine ONLY A TRUE IGNORAMOUS WOULD MISS THIS POINT IT IS ALL ABOUT KEEPING THE DUMB CATTLE FED ON A LIES WHILST THE FALSE SHEPERDS WALK A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT WAY ...i have seen this first hand and heard it come from the mouths of those who sit in High office...

IT IS PURE EVIL
Scott

Newton Center, MA

#510 Jun 1, 2011
no need to yell matey (you're all-caps sillyness) and you are offtopic to what 'New Hampshire' was asking 'Chet'

"WILLIAM MILLER a royal rch Mason of the Highest order"
--The Royal Arch degree is not the highest, and a Mason can attain the 3rd degree (the average Mason) and they are called a 'Master Mason'- it doesn't mean much, especially when you're talking about a Mason who Left the order!(unaverage)

"pyramids....obelisks.... ..single shaped eye....inverted cross...cross inside triangles...five point stars...."
--So let's burn the U.S. flag and others cuz they have 5-pointed stars--Pffftt! Your country has seven-pointed ones. Do you see Illuminati symbolism Everywhere? Do you think the jewish star of david is the same as the hexagram used in witchcraft?(they're Not)
As a dealer in antique ephemera I've seen the single 'all-seeing eye' on plenty of NON-Masonic drawings since it's not a concept that started with Masonry nor neccesarily of the occult- the Bible does mention God having a single eye
Ezra 5:5 and Psalm 33:18 and if you look in old magazines from the early 1900's as I have gone through many for various old ads, I've seen the obelisk advertised by monument makers as an 'Egyptian pillar' and something one might appreciate on the grave of their loved one- they didn't know the ancient Osiris meaning of it nor care about that or Masonic stuff and it also doesn't mean the stone monument makers were all Masons, lots of folks just like that shape and the fact that one is at Mrs. White's grave is nothing to have a shrill knee-jerk crazed response to, neither is the triangular shape of the SDA logo etc..
"Ahuge portion of Adventist pioneers were FREEMASONS"
-Not true
==========
Holy Moly! The 4-digit number I have to enter to post this comment is 3666!
The Triple-Six # of the Illuminati/beast of Revelation! I knew it- Topix is Evil
OHhhhhhhhhhh Noooooooooooooooo!

pffftt! I jest. But the # really is 3666
----------
Holy Moly!
Did you know that 3 times 666 is 1998- and the year 1998 was '13' years ago! Again- like '33', 13 is another # special to the Masons! This must all mean something VERY sinister right Aussie dude?
Tim

Sydney, Australia

#511 Jun 2, 2011
Scott wrote:
no need to yell matey (you're all-caps sillyness) and you are offtopic to what 'New Hampshire' was asking 'Chet'
"WILLIAM MILLER a royal rch Mason of the Highest order"
--The Royal Arch degree is not the highest, and a Mason can attain the 3rd degree (the average Mason) and they are called a 'Master Mason'- it doesn't mean much, especially when you're talking about a Mason who Left the order!(unaverage)
"pyramids....obelisks.... ..single shaped eye....inverted cross...cross inside triangles...five point stars...."
--So let's burn the U.S. flag and others cuz they have 5-pointed stars--Pffftt! Your country has seven-pointed ones. Do you see Illuminati symbolism Everywhere? Do you think the jewish star of david is the same as the hexagram used in witchcraft?(they're Not)
As a dealer in antique ephemera I've seen the single 'all-seeing eye' on plenty of NON-Masonic drawings since it's not a concept that started with Masonry nor neccesarily of the occult- the Bible does mention God having a single eye
Ezra 5:5 and Psalm 33:18 and if you look in old magazines from the early 1900's as I have gone through many for various old ads, I've seen the obelisk advertised by monument makers as an 'Egyptian pillar' and something one might appreciate on the grave of their loved one- they didn't know the ancient Osiris meaning of it nor care about that or Masonic stuff and it also doesn't mean the stone monument makers were all Masons, lots of folks just like that shape and the fact that one is at Mrs. White's grave is nothing to have a shrill knee-jerk crazed response to, neither is the triangular shape of the SDA logo etc..
"Ahuge portion of Adventist pioneers were FREEMASONS"
-Not true
==========
Holy Moly! The 4-digit number I have to enter to post this comment is 3666!
The Triple-Six # of the Illuminati/beast of Revelation! I knew it- Topix is Evil
OHhhhhhhhhhh Noooooooooooooooo!
pffftt! I jest. But the # really is 3666
----------
Holy Moly!
Did you know that 3 times 666 is 1998- and the year 1998 was '13' years ago! Again- like '33', 13 is another # special to the Masons! This must all mean something VERY sinister right Aussie dude?
caps lock is for EMPHASIS...

you arE oviously a "NEWBY" do some HoMework

you could not be more wrong ...the Royal Arch order is completely diiferent ..there are only twelve degrees and Miller atained the Highest order it is in his memiors for goodness sake...do you even know what Royal Arch Masons do ???
Do you know what lies open in every Royal arch lodge????
do you know who are the 3 grand masters???

do you know what the breast plate of cut glass represents???

Do you know why they have the spade and pick as their emblemm???

did you know william miller ministered inside the holy of holies inside the lodge? alledgedly resigned from the lodge with great regret in 1831 after spending 23 years working on the failed prophesy as a christain with deep masonic thinking

did you know ellen white used over 3000 masonic word not used in the bible not even once??/

CHECK IT OUT I AM NOT LIEING

BUT I KNOW WHO IS
Did you know he began his reseaerch in 1818 published a tract in 1826 and resi
Collins Kalonga

Zambia

#512 Jun 2, 2011
The Almighty JEHOVAH is watching , one day HE will vindicate
Lay Worker

Perth, Australia

#513 Jun 2, 2011
Tim wrote:
<quoted text>
caps lock is for EMPHASIS...
you arE oviously a "NEWBY" do some HoMework
you could not be more wrong ...the Royal Arch order is completely diiferent ..there are only twelve degrees and Miller atained the Highest order it is in his memiors for goodness sake...do you even know what Royal Arch Masons do ???
Do you know what lies open in every Royal arch lodge????
do you know who are the 3 grand masters???
do you know what the breast plate of cut glass represents???
Do you know why they have the spade and pick as their emblemm???
did you know william miller ministered inside the holy of holies inside the lodge? alledgedly resigned from the lodge with great regret in 1831 after spending 23 years working on the failed prophesy as a christain with deep masonic thinking
did you know ellen white used over 3000 masonic word not used in the bible not even once??/
CHECK IT OUT I AM NOT LIEING
BUT I KNOW WHO IS
Did you know he began his reseaerch in 1818 published a tract in 1826 and resi
Oh GADS

The Ettalong Beach newt is sounding rather slippery

yawn - nothing in the above other than another warren of difficulty to get lost in and nothing spacial to consider
Birdman

Bettendorf, IA

#514 Jun 2, 2011
Tim wrote:
<quoted text>
I THINK YOU WEREN'T GIVEN ENOUGH HUGS AS CHILD!
I FEEL SORRY FOR YOU IN
YOU ARE like A SAILOR LOST IN THE DESERT OF YOUR OWN IMAGINATION
You discribed "Layworker" to a t

Some say "Lostworker"

"Lostsailor" fits fine.
Lay Worker

Perth, Australia

#515 Jun 2, 2011
Birdman wrote:
<quoted text>
You discribed "Layworker" to a t
Some say "Lostworker"
"Lostsailor" fits fine.
birds are careless with their chirpy opinions

as usual for the resident unclean bird

fly now back in your cage - whoever left the cage open did not do you any favours - you are suffering from hypertension and the more garbage coming out of your beak only will exacerbate your problem
really now

Chicago, IL

#516 Jun 2, 2011
Whether the founder such as Miller and the Whites were masons is one thing, i think the point here today is the GC definitely are masonic. Their attack of Walter Veith's work shows they are hostile to such exposure.

Re: Miller and 1844.. it is possible Miller was sent to deceive the true prophetic understanding. I believe we have the truth about 1844 today.. that judgment began for all who have ever lived. When Christ returns (very soon) he brings his reward.

Most other SDA doctrine is spot on too. There are problems tho..

If the Whites and other founders were masons their motive is to steer the church body away from the biblical exposure of their masonic nwo.

Let me just say i do believe the Whites were masons. The obelisk at the graveyard with James' name on it must have been placed by the masonic lodge. They wouldn't do so unless he were a member.

Another story that does not add up is that Ellen can write so much with her level of education. One could speculate about what happened after her injury from the rock to the head. Perhapse she was sent to the hospital? Who ran the hospital? Nuns? Maybe she was raised by nuns? That and the literary borrowing and the whole mess just does not ring true. Maybe they could sell that before the internet and facts became known.
Birdman

Bettendorf, IA

#517 Jun 2, 2011
Lay Worker wrote:
<quoted text>
birds are careless with their chirpy opinions
as usual for the resident unclean bird
fly now back in your cage - whoever left the cage open did not do you any favours - you are suffering from hypertension and the more garbage coming out of your beak only will exacerbate your problem
A very good UNBIBLICAL reply, but from ALF, what more can you expect.

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