SALVATION for billions of FALLEN ANGELS?

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Debbie Reid

Apple Valley, CA

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Dec 29, 2012
 

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Does the Bible or Ellen White have anything to say about the fate of the FALLEN ANGELS, ONE THIRD,(billions) who sided with Satan? They are of higher order than humans, so surely God must have a Plan of Salvation for them also? What kind of penalty did He pay for their redemption? Were the angels also made in "our image"? WHY allow innocent angels to be introduced to evil? How perfect were they...so they indeed turned against the Cheator? These are the questions post-modernist people are asking. Surely our prophetess had insight into the angellic problem?
Probation officer

Oceanside, CA

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Dec 29, 2012
 

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egw wrote in GConn,p.788 that the investigative judgment for those bad angels began on March 9 in AD 67
DANNO

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Dec 29, 2012
 

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Debbie Reid wrote:
Does the Bible or Ellen White have anything to say about the fate of the FALLEN ANGELS, ONE THIRD,(billions) who sided with Satan? They are of higher order than humans, so surely God must have a Plan of Salvation for them also? What kind of penalty did He pay for their redemption? Were the angels also made in "our image"? WHY allow innocent angels to be introduced to evil? How perfect were they...so they indeed turned against the Cheator? These are the questions post-modernist people are asking. Surely our prophetess had insight into the angellic problem?
It depends if some of those angels have turned black or yellow.

More here by EGW on black people

http://www.nonegw.org/egw62.shtml
DANNO

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Dec 29, 2012
 

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Probation officer wrote:
egw wrote in GConn,p.788 that the investigative judgment for those bad angels began on March 9 in AD 67
The GREAT Controversy book does NOT go past page 678! What book and page are you waffling on about? I'd like to know.

thanx

Dan
yoyo

San Diego, CA

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Dec 29, 2012
 

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Probation officer wrote:
egw wrote in GConn,p.788 that the investigative judgment for those bad angels began on March 9 in AD 67
You liar!!!!
It was March 10!!
George Bush Snr

Brampton, Canada

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Dec 29, 2012
 

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Debbie Reid wrote:
Does the Bible or Ellen White have anything to say about the fate of the FALLEN ANGELS, ONE THIRD,(billions) who sided with Satan? They are of higher order than humans, so surely God must have a Plan of Salvation for them also? What kind of penalty did He pay for their redemption? Were the angels also made in "our image"? WHY allow innocent angels to be introduced to evil? How perfect were they...so they indeed turned against the Cheator? These are the questions post-modernist people are asking. Surely our prophetess had insight into the angellic problem?
Interfering.

What answers do you have?
George Bush Snr

Brampton, Canada

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Dec 29, 2012
 

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Debbie Reid wrote:
Does the Bible or Ellen White have anything to say about the fate of the FALLEN ANGELS, ONE THIRD,(billions) who sided with Satan? They are of higher order than humans, so surely God must have a Plan of Salvation for them also? What kind of penalty did He pay for their redemption? Were the angels also made in "our image"? WHY allow innocent angels to be introduced to evil? How perfect were they...so they indeed turned against the Cheator? These are the questions post-modernist people are asking. Surely our prophetess had insight into the angellic problem?
Interesting.

What do you think?
George Bush Snr

Brampton, Canada

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Dec 29, 2012
 

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Debbie Reid wrote:
Does the Bible or Ellen White have anything to say about the fate of the FALLEN ANGELS, ONE THIRD,(billions) who sided with Satan? They are of higher order than humans, so surely God must have a Plan of Salvation for them also? What kind of penalty did He pay for their redemption? Were the angels also made in "our image"? WHY allow innocent angels to be introduced to evil? How perfect were they...so they indeed turned against the Cheator? These are the questions post-modernist people are asking. Surely our prophetess had insight into the angellic problem?
Very good questions.

I look forward to your perspectives.
His4evrFriend

Grants Pass, OR

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Dec 29, 2012
 

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Dear Debbie Reid:

These are some very good questions that you have brought up here. The Bible has a few direct answers and God also asks us to come and reason together.

Lucifer began a rebellion in heaven in the very presence of God. I would like to ask...how is it that Lucifer dwelt upon "his own" goodness while living in the very atmosphere of heaven and in the very presence of God ? How is it that he thought more of his own goodness then he did of God's ? Think about it ? How could one do such a thing? Seeing more goodness while looking in the mirror than looking at God!!! When one views themselves as more important in his or her own eyes than others, they have began a slippery slope downwards and in reality have become the opposite in character to that of God who came to us as a meek and lowly servant.

No-one will ever come to accept the gift of salvation until they see a need. How can one who thinks themselves wiser or better than God ever see their need? No-one comes to God until they realize that they cannot live their life without Him and one must first realize their own sinful condition before they even see their need of God. Now think about it... does satan see his need? Not in 6000 years of rebellion. And sadly as we come to the end of this earth's history the rebellion in satan's heart is still raging against God. Not only is he in rebellion but he has continued to blind anyone that he can into joining in his rebellion. satan is determined not give in and he maintains his position right to the end of time. In fact he tries to marshal all of the wicked of the earth to surround the city of God to try and take possession of it for themselves... how sad an end to one who once held such a high position in heaven.

Here are a few Bible verses that clearly show that satan and his angels will not be saved.

Rev. 20 7-15

And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

His4everFriend
Rockroller

San Bernardino, CA

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Dec 29, 2012
 

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Rev. 12 proves that Satan and ALL his evil angels are doomed forever. They have already been judged and thrown out of heaven for good. Now go get a life and sin no more!
birdman

Charleston, IL

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#12
Dec 30, 2012
 
There is no Salvation for the fallen angels.

They made their choice when they followed Satan.

Jude v6 says "which kept not their first estate, but LEFT their own habitation" [here they rejected God for satan]

2 Peter 2:4 God "delivered them into chains of darkness unto judgement" [Rev 12 and 20:10-15]
His4everFriend

Grants Pass, OR

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Dec 30, 2012
 

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birdman wrote:
There is no Salvation for the fallen angels.
They made their choice when they followed Satan.
Jude v6 says "which kept not their first estate, but LEFT their own habitation" [here they rejected God for satan]
2 Peter 2:4 God "delivered them into chains of darkness unto judgement" [Rev 12 and 20:10-15]
very good text's there birdman (thumbs-up)

His4everFriend
Kingfisher

Gulf Breeze, FL

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Dec 30, 2012
 

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The question still remains: WHY did an all-powerful and all-knowing God ALLOW sin to come into HEAVEN? There must be a CAUSE...from another Universe?
And WHY subject innocent Adam and wife to something they never asked for? WHY not shield them from evil? And WHY were they so imperfect that they chose SATAN?
Difficult questions thinking people ask. Any logical, intelligent answers? Why did HUMANS get the offer of salvation, but not one single angel? Or did they? What does the "SOP" say?

Since: May 10

Hendersonville, NC

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Dec 30, 2012
 

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"The divine Son of God saw that no arm but His own could save fallen man, and He determined to help man. He left the fallen angels to perish in their rebellion, but stretched forth His hand to rescue perishing man. The angels who were rebellious were dealt with according to the light and experience they had abundantly enjoyed in heaven. Satan, the chief of the fallen angels, once had an exalted position in heaven. He was next in honor to Christ. The knowledge which he, as well as the angels who fell with him, had of the character of God, of His goodness, His mercy, wisdom, and excellent glory, made their guilt unpardonable. Con 21.1
There was no possible hope for the redemption of those who had witnessed and enjoyed the inexpressible glory of heaven, and had seen the terrible majesty of God, and, in presence of all this glory, had rebelled against Him. There were no new and wonderful exhibitions of Godís exalted power that could impress them so deeply as those they had already experienced. If they could rebel in the very presence of glory inexpressible, they could not be placed in a more favorable condition to be proved. There was no reserve force of power, nor were there any greater heights and depths of infinite glory to overpower their jealous doubts and rebellious murmuring. Their guilt and their punishment must be in proportion to their exalted privileges in the heavenly courts." Confrontation, 21.2

Does that answer your question?

Since: May 10

Hendersonville, NC

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Dec 30, 2012
 

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Here is another quote that might be helpful. The context of this is right after the fall of Adam and Eve.

"Satan trembled as he viewed his work. He was alone in meditation upon the past, the present, and his future plans. His mighty frame shook as with a tempest. An angel from heaven was passing. He called him and entreated an interview with Christ. This was granted him. He then related to the Son of God that he repented of his rebellion and wished again the favor of God. He was willing to take the place God had previously assigned him, and be under His wise command. Christ wept at Satanís woe but told him, as the mind of God, that he could never be received into heaven. Heaven must not be placed in jeopardy. All heaven would be marred should he be received back, for sin and rebellion originated with him. The seeds of rebellion were still within him. He had, in his rebellion, no occasion for his course, and he had hopelessly ruined not only himself but the host of angels also, who would then have been happy in heaven had he remained steadfast. The law of God could condemn but could not pardon.{SR 26.1}

He repented not of his rebellion because he saw the goodness of God which he had abused. It was not possible that his love for God had so increased since his fall that it would lead to cheerful submission and happy obedience to His law which had been despised. The wretchedness he realized in losing the sweet light of heaven, and the sense of guilt which forced itself upon him, and the disappointment he experienced himself in not finding his expectation realized, were the cause of his grief. To be commander out of heaven was vastly different from being thus honored in heaven. The loss he had sustained of all the privileges of heaven seemed too much to be borne. He wished to regain these.{SR 26.2}

This great change of position had not increased his love for God, nor for His wise and just law. When Satan became fully convinced that there was no possibility of his being reinstated in the favor of God, he manifested his malice with increased hatred and fiery vehemence.{SR 27.1}

God knew that such determined rebellion would not remain inactive. Satan would invent means to annoy the heavenly angels and show contempt for His authority. As he could not gain admission within the gates of heaven, he would wait just at the entrance, to taunt the angels and seek contention with them as they went in and out. He would seek to destroy the happiness of Adam and Eve. He would endeavor to incite them to rebellion, knowing that this would cause grief in heaven.
DANNO

London, UK

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Dec 30, 2012
 

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Brother_Wright wrote:
Here is another quote that might be helpful. The context of this is right after the fall of Adam and Eve.
"Satan trembled as he viewed his work. He was alone in meditation upon the past, the present, and his future plans. His mighty frame shook as with a tempest. An angel from heaven was passing. He called him and entreated an interview with Christ. This was granted him. He then related to the Son of God that he repented of his rebellion and wished again the favor of God. He was willing to take the place God had previously assigned him, and be under His wise command. Christ wept at Satanís woe but told him, as the mind of God, that he could never be received into heaven. Heaven must not be placed in jeopardy. All heaven would be marred should he be received back, for sin and rebellion originated with him. The seeds of rebellion were still within him. He had, in his rebellion, no occasion for his course, and he had hopelessly ruined not only himself but the host of angels also, who would then have been happy in heaven had he remained steadfast. The law of God could condemn but could not pardon.{SR 26.1}
He repented not of his rebellion because he saw the goodness of God which he had abused. It was not possible that his love for God had so increased since his fall that it would lead to cheerful submission and happy obedience to His law which had been despised. The wretchedness he realized in losing the sweet light of heaven, and the sense of guilt which forced itself upon him, and the disappointment he experienced himself in not finding his expectation realized, were the cause of his grief. To be commander out of heaven was vastly different from being thus honored in heaven. The loss he had sustained of all the privileges of heaven seemed too much to be borne. He wished to regain these.{SR 26.2}
This great change of position had not increased his love for God, nor for His wise and just law. When Satan became fully convinced that there was no possibility of his being reinstated in the favor of God, he manifested his malice with increased hatred and fiery vehemence.{SR 27.1}
God knew that such determined rebellion would not remain inactive. Satan would invent means to annoy the heavenly angels and show contempt for His authority. As he could not gain admission within the gates of heaven, he would wait just at the entrance, to taunt the angels and seek contention with them as they went in and out. He would seek to destroy the happiness of Adam and Eve. He would endeavor to incite them to rebellion, knowing that this would cause grief in heaven.
Bro

What is your view on EGW vission on "FOOD for WORMS" ? Can that prophecy be fulfilled?

Do you accept EGW as a prophet?

Dan
His4everFriend

Grants Pass, OR

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Dec 30, 2012
 

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Kingfisher wrote:
The question still remains: WHY did an all-powerful and all-knowing God ALLOW sin to come into HEAVEN? There must be a CAUSE...from another Universe?
And WHY subject innocent Adam and wife to something they never asked for? WHY not shield them from evil? And WHY were they so imperfect that they chose SATAN?
Difficult questions thinking people ask. Any logical, intelligent answers? Why did HUMANS get the offer of salvation, but not one single angel? Or did they? What does the "SOP" say?
I spent many years studying those questions. Questions like " why have kids before the war ended"... that doesn't make much sense!!! settle the war first, then create Adam and Eve... and " why did an all knowing, and a wise, and all seeing God even make Lucifer in the first place?" WHY! God could have avoided the whole sin issue altogether simply by leaving Lucifer out of the creation...

So what kind of a plan does this all wise and all knowing God have anyway? It takes a mature christian to be honest enough to look at these questions and keep in perspective the true charachter of God. It took me many many years to grasp answers to these questions keeping that perspective in mind. As SDA's we do not believe that the Bible teaches an eternal hell fire where God torments the wicked forever... He is NOT like that! We recognize that God is fair and just and that His punishment is suited to the gravity of the crime. He does not torment those who reject Him forever... Jesus said that the "soul" that sins will die.

We also recognize that God has compassion beyond what we can even imagine and that He was not favorable that sin would ever spread to this planet. Yet He did create the human race in the middle of the war and gave each of us the freedom of choice... the real issue to me seems to revolve around the fact that God gave each of us a free choice. In fact that is at the very center of this topic for those who wish to study it further. It was freedom of choice that "ALLOWED" Lucifer to fall... and it was also a freedom of choice that has allowed sin to continue as it is to this very day. However... why did God ever allow it to happen in the first place?

Then one day it hit me... just maybe Adam and Eve and the human race had a part to play in settling the war? Why else would God put them in the middle of a war zone? God surely must have some kind of plan. Fortunately God has not left us completely in the dark pertaining to this issue for we read in Romans 8 that

the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God. FOR THE CREATION WAS SUBJEST TO FUTILITY, NOT WILLINGLY, BUT BECAUSE OF HIM WHO SUBJECTED IT IN HOPE

Because the creation itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

This is an exciting topic and one worthy of much study.

His4everFriend
His4everFriend

Grants Pass, OR

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Dec 30, 2012
 

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We do not have record of conversations between God and Lucifer prior to the creation of the earth. However, I believe that when we look at the war between heaven and earth as a whole we can see what the primary issue is. God has always said things like...

What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death;

In otherwords God says obey and live, disobey and die. This is a principle which God's government is founded upon.

Lucifer has contended that it was not necessary for perfect created beings to be bound by obedience to God... that they could do as they pleased and still live. In fact, they would rise to higher levels of happiness and fulfillment.

On what basis do I say that ? The whole of scripture from beginning right up till now there are scores of examples written for our admonition. But lets look at the fall of mankind to start. If you look at Genesis 3: 1-4 what was lucifer saying ? He made three points central to his thinking ...

- Eve, " has God put restrictions on you? " that you may not eat of every tree of the garden ?

- God is holding something back from you, you can have a higher plain of existence... and in fact... you , can be like God

- God surely will not kill you over something so innocent as this will He ??? what kind of God do you serve anyway ? This certainly is not love...

Before rebellion entered into God's universe, it was NOT obvious that the choice to rebel would cause death. No one had ever seen death for themselves. Even God Himself could not prove it with "mere words"... Unfortunatly it had to be demonstrated. All created beings were free to make up their own minds. And they had to trust that God was telling the truth about rebellion... or not.

It's really simple. those angels who trusted God remained safely in heaven. Those who did not trust God choose to leave... Even those angels who remained in heaven did not know for themselves what the truth really was. But they trusted God. They had faith enough to believe that what God said was true. And God has allowed Himself to be tested and in a very real sense... on trial ... before His created universe. What a concept !!! And the ultimate test of His love and character was shown at the cross. In answering your question we cannot loose site of the cross. That was the final demonstration that God had told the truth in heaven when He said that sin [ rebellion] brings death.

His4everFriend
His4everFriend

Grants Pass, OR

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Dec 31, 2012
 

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As these questions burned in my heart all those years ago God began to help me to understand that while the war began in heaven... if God would have destroyed Lucifer "at that point" then all that would have been demonstrated is God's power... In the end it was something of God's charachter that needed to be stated and in His plan it was no accident that Lucifer found himself among men!

Yet an all wise God knew that something much more important needed to be displayed and in retrospect that demonstration ultimately led the Son of God to the cross. That Divine act of Love is the very center of all of earthly history.

His4everFriend
His4everFriend

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Jan 1, 2013
 

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Years ago when I was a new baby christian I have to admit that I had some(small)feeling on the edge of resentment toward God that He would allow me to be born into this mess of which I origanaly had no part of. I mean look at how Adams fall has affected our lives. Now they wern't deep rooted but there was a bit of being put out by the thought. On the other hand I also recognized that God was "just" and fair and that His love was at the "heart" of everything that He did or allowed.(Rom.8:28 for eg.) So after maturing as a christian and also knowledge of God I came to the point that I realized that this is "all about Him"... not me

I also realized that this war that started in heaven must be resolved in a way that all of the creatures that God had created, would in the end know beyond a shadow of doubt that God truly is love and that He loves all of His creation... In fact if you look at what happened in Gethsemene you will find an amazing truth... Jesus is pouring out His very soul before the universe ready to lay down His life in a horrible death. Now look at this truth... whose life was at stake? His??? No, ours. Jesus could have walked away. So in essence... When God was faced with the reality that either mankind must die... or He must die in their place. The God of the universe choose to die.

Amazing thought!

God could have walked away untouched! I believe that this truth is somehow at the center of why God let rebellion spread into this world. This act of "immeasurable LOVE" put an end to every accusing finger pointed toward God. All of Lucifers lies and deception's pertaing to God and His kingdom were now shown to be false. Here is a snippet of my prior post...

He (Lucifer) made these points central to his thinking

-Eve, "has God put restrictions on you?" that you may not eat of every tree of this garden?

-God is holding something back from you, you can have a higher plain of existence... you can be like God

-God surely wont kill you over something so innocent as this will He?... what kind of God do you serve anyway? That certainly is not love...

I believe that from the "heart" of Lucifers accusation's against God that we can conclude that Lucifer's plan has always been to attack God's characher and claim that God does not have man's best interest's at heart. We can talk more about that latter. Satan has alway's promised "freedom" but delivers bondage which lead's unto death.

We are told that "rebellion shall not arise a second time"... Because God's charachter has been shown to be so far beyond any repute I belive it safe to say that no-one will ever have any thought's or ever question God and His "Amazing Love"

May He richly bless each of you.

His4everFriend

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