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Since: Jul 08

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#1 Jan 5, 2013
Every Seventh-day Adventist should be aware that the present organization is not according to Gospel order. It may sound "heretical" to say that but it is the truth, not a private opinion.

Only those who have failed to study our history will think that there is nothing wrong with the present order of things.

Between 1888 and 1901 the Lord asked for a change, for an entirely new organization. In this new organization, we were to begin at the foundation (1 Cor.3:11) and to build upon a different principle, the principle of self-government in Christ by the Holy Spirit. The Lord had said, "I want the Holy Ghost to be King." Christ was to be the Head of every man.(1 Cor.11:3) He alone was to have the pre-eminence in all things in the church.(Col.1:18)

When the leaders met in 1901, for the first time they agreed to take the necessary reformatory steps to bring in a different order of things, to bring in Gospel order within our ranks. The first thing they agreed to at that conference was to eliminate the presidency. There was no elected president until the next conference in 1903 but in order to have that the 1901 reformatory steps had to be reversed and they were. Interestingly enough A.G. Daniells who was the chairman in 1901 assumed the presidency without the constitution a few months before the 1903 General Conference. This is all documented.

During all these years God had been put aside and the devisings of men were the order of the day. It got so bad that the Lord had to send the following testimonies:

"The high-handed power that has been developed, as though position has made men gods, makes me afraid, and ought to cause fear. It is a curse wherever and by whomsoever it is exercised. This lording it over God's heritage will create such a disgust of man's jurisdiction that a state of insubordination will result." T.M.361.

"Men have taken unfair advantage of those whom they supposed to be under their jurisdiction. They were determined to bring the individuals to their terms; they would rule or ruin. There will be no material change until a decided movement is made to bring in a different order of things." T.M.360

"Human inventions are made supreme. The holy principles that God has given are represented as the sacred fire, but common fire has been used in place of the sacred. Plans contrary to truth and righteousness are introduced in a subtle manner on the plea that this must be done, and that must be done,'because it is for the advancement of the cause of God.' But it is the devising of men that leads to oppression, injustice, and wickedness." T.M.359,360.

Men seeking for pre-eminence in the church. Nothing new under the sun. The first one to seek for pre-eminence in the apostolic church was Diotrephes (3 John 9) and it led to the full-fledged papacy of the Dark Ages. It is the spirit of domination in the church, lording it over God's heritage.

Following in the track of the General Conference leaders the Lord declared that "The spirit of domination is (was) extending to the presidents of our conferences." T.M.362.

"Rule, rule, has been their course of action." T.M.363.

"Humanity is hailed as God." T.M.365.

Hence, the Lord declared, "They are following in the track of Romanism." T.M.262.

tbc

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#2 Jan 5, 2013
That is why in 1888 the Lord sent a special testimony that presented the truth as it is in Jesus:

"Now, it has been Satan's determined purpose to eclipse the view of Jesus and lead men to look to man, and trust in man, and be educated to expect help from man. For years the church has been looking to man and expecting much from man, but not looking to Jesus, in whom our hopes of eternal life are centered. Therefore God gave to His servants a testimony that presented the truth as it is in Jesus, which is the third angel's message in clear, distinct lines." T.M.93.

"Many had lost sight of Jesus. They needed to have their eyes directed to His divine Person, to HIS MERITS, and to His changeless love for the human family... This is the message that God commanded to be given to the world. It is the third angel's message which is to be proclaimed with a loud voice and attended with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in large measure." T.M.92.

"The uplifted Savior is to appear in His efficacious work as the Lamb slain, sitting upon the Throne, to dispense the priceless covenant blessings, the benefits He died to purchase for every soul who would believe on Him... The EFFICACY of the BLOOD of Christ was to be presented to the people with freshness and power that their faith might lay hold upon ITS MERITS." T.M.92.

"Take hold by faith of the MERITS of Christ and the soul-cleansing blood will be applied." F.W.96.

In other words as we make it our life business to look to Jesus and to accept His merits which it is our privilege to claim,(T.M.93) the righteousness of Christ is imputed and imparted and it accomplishes everything as it is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. See F.W.65,66,27; T.M.92.

This is, indeed, the third angel's message in clear, distinct lines.

Is it not?

sky
The Wise Man

San Antonio, TX

#3 Jan 5, 2013
skyblue888 wrote:
That is why in 1888 the Lord sent a special testimony that presented the truth as it is in Jesus:
"Now, it has been Satan's determined purpose to eclipse the view of Jesus and lead men to look to man, and trust in man, and be educated to expect help from man. For years the church has been looking to man and expecting much from man, but not looking to Jesus, in whom our hopes of eternal life are centered. Therefore God gave to His servants a testimony that presented the truth as it is in Jesus, which is the third angel's message in clear, distinct lines." T.M.93.
"Many had lost sight of Jesus. They needed to have their eyes directed to His divine Person, to HIS MERITS, and to His changeless love for the human family... This is the message that God commanded to be given to the world. It is the third angel's message which is to be proclaimed with a loud voice and attended with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit in large measure." T.M.92.
"The uplifted Savior is to appear in His efficacious work as the Lamb slain, sitting upon the Throne, to dispense the priceless covenant blessings, the benefits He died to purchase for every soul who would believe on Him... The EFFICACY of the BLOOD of Christ was to be presented to the people with freshness and power that their faith might lay hold upon ITS MERITS." T.M.92.
"Take hold by faith of the MERITS of Christ and the soul-cleansing blood will be applied." F.W.96.
In other words as we make it our life business to look to Jesus and to accept His merits which it is our privilege to claim,(T.M.93) the righteousness of Christ is imputed and imparted and it accomplishes everything as it is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God. See F.W.65,66,27; T.M.92.
This is, indeed, the third angel's message in clear, distinct lines.
Is it not?
sky
Do you personally know Satan?

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#4 Jan 5, 2013
Trust me, I know in my own life that he is real. The Scriptures testify to his existence and to his constant effort to intercept every ray of heavenly light.

sky
The Wise Man

San Antonio, TX

#5 Jan 5, 2013
skyblue888 wrote:
Trust me, I know in my own life that he is real. The Scriptures testify to his existence and to his constant effort to intercept every ray of heavenly light.
sky
I know he is real. I just wanted to know if you knew him personally.
Like Jesus did.
Rockroller

Yucaipa, CA

#6 Jan 6, 2013
Sky, Where do you come up with all of this phony nonsense from? IF your foundation is flawed, so will be your writings (post). God NEVER changed anything and NOTHING in the law and the prophets were flawed as Paul believed and wrote.

I have dilligently studied the history of Adventists and see that Satan had to 'get' to them asap, just as he did with "THE WAY" after Jesus left. He used Paul to confuse those in THE WAY and he used EGW to confuse those new Adventists who are the KoH as found in Matt. 25:1-13.
sky

Trois-rivières, Canada

#7 Jan 7, 2013
In 1901 the Lord declared,

"We may have to remain in this world because of insubordination many more years." Evangelism,696.

Six years later, in 1907, He declared, "I will be glorified in My people; but the self-confident management of men has resulted in putting God aside and accepting the devisings of men. If you allow this to continue your faith will soon become extinct."
T.M.481.

Since 1903 there has been no decided movement to bring in a different order of things, to bring about the change that God had asked for. The Lord also declared that if the present order of things was allowed to continue that the time would
come when "He will work in this last work in a manner very much out of the common order of things and in a way that will be contrary to any human
planning." See T.M.300.

On the same page the Lord warns us that when He shall work in this last work, instead of coming up to the help of the Lord, the leading men will want to bind about His work to meet their narrow ideas. But God will use ways and means by which it will be seen that He is taking the reins into His own hands and the workers will be surprised by the simple means He will use to bring about and perfect His work
of righteousness. See p.300.

sky
sky

Trois-rivières, Canada

#8 Jan 7, 2013
What are these devisings of men? The constitution of the church is patterned after that of the governments of this world with hierarchy, voting, resolutions, delegations, policy book, human methods and plans.

Take a listen: "Organizations, institutions, unless kept by the power of God, will work under Satan's dictation to bring men under the control of men; and FRAUD and GUILE will bear the SEMBLANCE of ZEAL for TRUTH and for the ADVANCEMENT of the KINGDOM of God. Whatever in our practice is not as open as
the day belongs to the methods of the prince of evil. His methods are practiced even among Seventh-day Adventists, who claim to have advanced truth." T.M.366.

I suggest you read the entire section which is entitled, Under Which Banner.

The Lord showed Mrs. White that the present "organized work" is antagonistic to the third angel's message and that this general movement will wax stronger and stronger until Jesus comes in the
clouds of Heaven.

One day Mrs. White said to the leaders of the Genearl Conference that she had no hope of them
ever getting out of the rut they were in and that the whole scheme would all come to naught.

The Lord will finish the work in a manner very much out of the present order of things and in a way that will be contrary to any human planning.

sky

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#9 Jan 7, 2013
If we would study the 1901 General Conference Bulletin (most of us have never seen these Bulletins) we would realize that what the Lord was asking for was a return to primitive faith and godliness as revealed in the book of Acts.

The Early Church did not have a man as their "president" or "king" and they had no constitution the like of which the SDA church has today which is patterned after the constitutions of the governments of this world.

The Lord repeatedly warned that we were repeating the follies of Israel when they asked for a man to be their king.

At the General Conference in 1901 brother A.T. Jones was recognized from the floor and asked to give a series of lectures on organization. It was recognized that he had "light for the people" on that very subject. But the message he presented was not put into action. Mrs. White declared that the Lord showed the leaders what to do and what not to do but they rejected the light.

sky

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#10 Jan 7, 2013
Brother Jones quoted from the Desire of Ages and added a comment:

"In the commission to His disciples, Christ no only outlined their work, but gave them their message: Teach the people, He said,'to observe all things
whatsoever I have commanded you.' The disciples were to teach what Christ had taught. That which He had spoken, not only in person, but through all the
prophets and teachers of the Old Testament is here included. Human teaching is shut out. There is no place for tradition, for men's theories and conclusions, or for church legislation. No laws ordained by ecclesiastical authority are included in the commission. NOne of these are Christ's servants to teach.'The law and the prophets,' with the record of His own words and deeds, are the
treasure committed to the disciples to be given to the world. Christ's name is their watchword, their badge of distinction, their bond of union, the authority for their course of action, and the source of their success. Nothing that does not bear His superscription is to be recognized in His kingdom." D.A.826.

In the teaching that Christ commissioned me to teach there is no place for tradition, there is no place for men's theories and conclusions, no place for any church legislation, no place for any "laws ordained by ecclesiastical authority." "None of these are Christ's servants to teach." Then what is the good, and what is the use, of "church legistation," of constitutions, laws, resolutions, and or all of the "laws ordained by ecclesiastical authority?" "None of these are Christ's servants to teach." Then by what right do you require that I shall teach such things?

Now, all of this in the Desire of Ages, without any explanation or qualification, is precisely my attitude in all of my publications and published
statements, and in all my preaching. Is that "antagonistic to the organized work?" If so, why? And even if it is how can I help that? It is the truth, as the truth is in the Bible and in Jesus.

sky

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#11 Jan 7, 2013
Yet even that is not all, from our own standard publications. Here is Special Testimony, Series B. No.10,(1909) Jehovah is our King.(Testimonies to
Ministers, p.481) I have told the President of the General Conference, and others, and now I tell to you, that I stand in full agreement with this in just what it says and that if you will stand there, then there can not possibly be any difference, much less antagonism between us as to organization.

This message says these words:

"God declares,'I will be glorified in My people;' but the self-confident management of men has resulted in putting God aside and accepting the devisings of men." Pages 16,17.

I never said anything as strong as that. I never said anything more "antagonistic to the organized work" than that. Is that Testimony antagonistic
to the organized work? Or is it antagonistic to the organized work to teach from the Bible that which will effectually prevent that which this Testimony says "has resulted," that is, "putting God aside, and accepting the devisings of men"? When God has been put aside by men in the church, and the devisings of men are accepted instead, then I know what that means. Don't you? And I do not want it. Do you?

The Kingship of Jehovah, and that each one shall find God to be his King, in the Kingdom of God, instead of any kingdom of men in the place of God--this is only what I am preaching everywhere, and what I shall continue to preach.

This Testimony says in so many words:

"This message is spoken to our churches in every place" and that these words ... are needed in every place where a church is established." Pages 19,33-34.

And yet is is the plain truth that hardly any churches in any place have ever had a chance to even know that it is in existence. Why? And though it has been in print a year and a half, the Tract Society haven't it and never had it for supply and the only way to get it was to send direclty to Pacific Press for it at five cents a copy. Why? Is it because that this Testimony, too, is held by
these same ones to be "antagonistic to the organized work"? Further this says:

"For years there has been a growing tendency for men placed in positions of responsibility to lord it over God's heritage, thus removing from Church-members their keen sense of the need of divine instruction and an appreciation of the privilege of counsel with God regarding this duty. This order of things must be changed. There must be a reform." Page 13.

That this order of things shall be changed, and there be a reform, is all that I have ever asked for. And why is that antagonistic to the organized work?" A.T. Jones.

to be continued

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#12 Jan 7, 2013
Further I read:

"In my earlier experiences in the message, I was called to meet this evil. During my labors in Europe and Australia, and more recently at the San Jose Meeting in 1905, I had to bear my Testimony of warning against it, because souls were being led to look to man for wisdom instead of to God who is our wisdom, our sanctification, and our righteousness.(1 Cor.1:30) And now (1907) the same message has again been given me, more definite and decisive, because there has been a DEEPER OFFENSE to the Spirit of God."

And I read:

"I write thus fully because I have been shown that ministers and teachers are tempted more and more to trust in finite men for wisdom, and to make flesh their arm. To Conference Presidents and men in responsible places, I bear this message: Break the bands and fetters that have been placed upon God's people. To you the word is spoken:'Break every yoke.' Unless you cease the work of making men amenable to men, unless you become humble in heart, and yourselves learn the way of the Lord as little children, the Lord will divorce you from His work." T.M.480,481.

Is it true that "bands and fetters" "have been placed upon God's people"? I didn't say that there had. But this Testimony says that there has, and that as late as October, 1907; and you profess to believe that this is instruction from God. Is that antagonistic to the organized work? Without telling the people that bands and fetters had been placed upon them, I have been and shall continue to be, teaching the people how to be free from all such things as bands and fetters and yokes. Is that antagonistic to the organized work? If so, how can I help it?" A.T. Jones

sky :)

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#13 Jan 7, 2013
Then came the General Conference of 1901, in Battle Creek. According to the arrangements I was to report the proceedings of the Conference. Before the Conference actually assembled in session there occurred that meeting in the Library Room of the College Building, in which Sister White spoke on General Conference matters and organization:

"From the light that I have, as it was presented to me in figures. There was a narrow compass here; there within that narrow compass, is a king-like, a kingly ruling power. God means what he says and He says,'I want a change here.' Will it be the same thing? going over and over the same ideas, the same
committees--and here is the little throne--the king is in there, and these others are all secondary. God wants that those committees that have been
handling things for so long should be relieved of their command and have a chance for their life and see if they can not get out of this rut that they are in--which I have no hope of their getting out of, because the Spirit of God has been working and working, and yet the king is in there still. Now the Lord wants His Spirit to come in. He wants the Holy Ghost King."

"And the work all over our field demands an entirely different course of action than we have had; that there needs the laying of a foundation that is different from what we have had... In all these countries, far and near, He wants to be an
arousing, broadening, enlarging power. And a management which is getting confused in itself--not that any one is wrong or means to be wrong, but the
principle is wrong; and the principles have become so mixed and so fallen from what God's principles are.

"These things have been told, and this standstill has got to come to an end. But yet every Conference has woven after the same pattern, it is the very same loom that carries it, and finally, it will come to naught."

sky

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#14 Jan 7, 2013
As far as organization is concerned, the bottom line of the 1901 message on this subject was that we must individually be organized from the Head. If we are joined to the Head, it won't matter if you and I are 10,000 miles apart, we will be organized. This is the principle of self-government in Christ by the Holy Spirit. This was the principle upon which the Early Church built.

"The only condition upon which the freedom of man is possible is that of becoming one with Christ." D.A.466; 1 Cor.3:11; 1 Cor.11:3.

Next I will share a few more excerpts from the 1901 lectures that brother Jones gave on organization. It was truly "light for the people" to quote the words of A.G. Daniells himself who at first was receptive to the message.

sky

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#15 Jan 7, 2013
Brother Jones: The night of that very first day of the Conference I was appointed to preach the sermon. Since I had been appointed to report the proceedings, I expected to have no preaching or other work to do. Therefore when I was called to preach, I supposed that it was designed to have me preach that one time during the conference, and have me do it at the beginning so that I could go on afterward unmolested with the eporting. I spoke on Church Organization. When that meeting was over, I supposed that my preaching during the Conference was done.

Therefore I was surprised when only two days afterward--April 4, brother Daniells came to me at the reporter's table and said, We want you to preach tonight. I said I supposed that my preaching was over, since I have the reporting to do. I can not do this and preach often. You said to me, "You have light for the people, and we want them to have it." I consented and preached again on the subject of Church Organization, developing the subject further, and on the same principles precisely as on the night of April 2.

Before we begin reading the first excerpts from brother Jones, it would be good to keep the following in mind:

"What we want now is a re-organization. We want to begin at the foundation, and to build upon a different principle... This meeting will determine the character of our work in the future. How important that every step taken is taken under the supervision of God. This work must be carried in a very different manner to what it has been in the past years." pp.25,83.

sky

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#16 Jan 7, 2013
Here are the first excerpts from brother Jones' lectures on organization at the 1901 G.C. session:

"Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshiping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, and NOT HOLDING THE HEAD, from which all the body by joints
and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God." Col.2:18,19.

Any organization that does not come from Jesus Christ is no organization at all. Note that this organization--this reorganization comes from the HEAD. Organization does not come from the members; it comes from the Head. Then do you not see that this is organization in the church of Christ? All organization must come from Christ Himself. He can do it; only He can.

This organization is built from the Head; those who do not hold the Head are beguiled of their reward. O, yes, they humble themselves, and they work, and
they pray, and all this thing; but what does it amount to? It is all simply works. And all this is because the Head is not recognized: "Not holding the Head." Col.2:19.

So then the body is organized from the Head. The life energy, flowing from the Head to all the members, each member actuated from the Head, each member guided by the will that resides in the Head. That is perfection of organization, and the human body is the same. This is the illustration. Here is the human body--many members, but it is all one body, each member of this body of ours which God has given us.

By the way let me pause upon that one thought.

In our bodies, which we have ever with us, and to which we were directed to-day,--why is it that in all this exhortation of the Spirit of prophecy to
reorganization, health reform comes in every time? Why is it, as to-day it was clearly cited, "I am fearfully and wonderfully made"?--It is because in this organization in which we ourselves are, our bodies which God has made us, He has presented before us an everlasting illustration of the organization of the church. And it is exceeding carelessness, and from that, blindness, that cannot
see the organization of the church, what it must be, when every day each one carries about with him, and is constantly using, this body, which is composed of many members.

Every one of these members is actuated by the head; and no two of them ever come into quarrel, ever have any difference of opinion, act in contrary ways. Or if they should by any means act in contrary ways, as the hands do to break a string, it is only apparently; they are actually pulling together.

You simply cannot have schism in the body which God has organized from the head. So then, since God calls for re-organization, let not a soul here be afraid that there is going to be confusion, or schism, or anything of the kind. There is no
danger whatever except among those who hold not to the head.

Who is the church?--Those who look to the Head; those who seek the Head; those who are joined to the Head. 1 Cor.6:15,17; 1 Cor.11:3; 1 Cor.3:11.

Then there is no difference how many members there may be, though we are only one on one side of the earth, and another on the other side of the earth, we two members will move together, and act together, because the Head Christ Jesus, the
Lord, is organizing both. His will actuates both. He is the One who is doing that in both." 1901 General Conference Bulletin, pp.41,42.

to be continued

Since: Jul 08

Location hidden

#17 Jan 7, 2013
Then this also must be considered: that position, place, never gives authority. Authority qualifies for the place. I will say it again: it must be a watchword for every one in this conference: Position never gives authority... Place, position, never bestows authority. No authority is derived from the place. But authority that a man already has from God, which God has put upon him, will qualify a man for the place to which God calls him; and if he has not that authority before he enters the place, he has not the authority when he is in the place. The view that place gives authority is precisely the principle of papal infallibility. The pope is not infallible before he is elected. Nobody claims that. He is only a cardinal before he is elected; but as soon as he is elected, then he is infallible; then he is inspired by the Holy Spirit because he holds his place. That is the papacy.

Christianity is that God clothes men with authority; and whether they have any place or position, or not, it is all right, they have authority, anyhow. Look at it: Jesus Christ was in this world, truly saying, "All power (and that is 'all authority' in the Revised Version) is given unto Me in Heaven and in earth;" and He had no place at all, not so much as to lay his head. He had no position at all. The Pharisees, the priests, the scribes, the lawyers, the hypocrites, had position; they had place; and they could lord it over Him, and set Him before them, and sit in judgment upon Him. Where was their authority?--They had none.

Jesus had the authority, and the people knew it, and the Pharisees who did not have it, grew so jealous of Him that they could not stand Him any longer. All the world has gone after Him, and so we must put Him out of the world to save our place. If we do not, we will lose our place.

The man who is connected with the Head, the man who serves God, the man who lives in Jesus Christ, can never lose his place; for his place is with Jesus Christ, under the wings of the Almighty, and he is safe. Where was Jesus' authority?--when He did not have any position or any place? How could He have authority? It was in the truth which He taught from God. All man's authority, all true and right authority in this world comes to him through the truth of God which he receives.

When we shall find a man in this world who has as much of the truth of God as Christ had in Him, we shall find a man who has all authority in heaven and earth, because he has all the truth in heaven and earth. The measure of the truth that a man has, only that measure of authority he has wherever he is. And if he is in the highest place of responsibility on this earth, if he has no truth, he has no authority. All the authority he can ever have in that place is the truth that is in Him, which is a part of him." A.T. Jones

to be continued
Rockroller

Riverside, CA

#18 Jan 7, 2013
From you postings it is easy to see how you have been deceived. Too bad you can't take a step back to see it yourself. How sad!
Robert Two

Australia

#19 Jan 7, 2013
Thankyou I too pointed this out away back in the the 1970s.
Sure I am encouraged to read things I never read before yet understood that was the case.
GOD has brounght US together .
Robert Two

Australia

#20 Jan 7, 2013
Pastor KEITH JACKSONS father explained to me what A.T.Jones had put forward in 1901.
So I did understand thee GOD required a method where GOD was running the SDA CHURCH.
I took this very seriously back in those days.
I was BLACK LISTED by my church and still am today.Yet I am in anothe COUNTY and 2,000 miles away and 40 years ago. There is not right given to RECONCILE either. Their rule cannot be UNDER MINED.
They have the right to change the facts or the rules as they go along. Their word is law. TRUTH has nothing to do with anything.

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