Revelation CHRONOLOGICAL?
Uriah

United States

#1 Dec 7, 2010
Is it possible that Revelation is absolutely chronological from verse one to the last? It looks to me that it could very well be the case. John has ONE continual vision and never seems to really "come out of it".
David Koot

Santa Rosa, CA

#2 Dec 7, 2010
Uriah wrote:
Is it possible that Revelation is absolutely chronological from verse one to the last? It looks to me that it could very well be the case. John has ONE continual vision and never seems to really "come out of it".
Hello Ms. Uriah, no Rev. is not absolutely chronological. There is a good bit of textual evidence that it is not, and the theme is stated in the first chapter: Alpha to Omega, repeated in several visions, from beginning to end. The visions describe different aspects of the same time period. They are not back to back.
Maxine Oh

Salt Lake City, UT

#3 Dec 8, 2010
It is not the book of RevelationS,plural, but of RevelatioN. One continuous revelation seems right.
Take it at face value and you cannot go wrong. Bible was written for average folks not rocket scientists. The parts I do not understand cannot be that important. They had meaning once, and the folks who read the letter first, understood better.I think.
David Koot

Santa Rosa, CA

#4 Dec 8, 2010
Maxine Oh wrote:
It is not the book of RevelationS,plural, but of RevelatioN. One continuous revelation seems right.
Take it at face value and you cannot go wrong. Bible was written for average folks not rocket scientists. The parts I do not understand cannot be that important. They had meaning once, and the folks who read the letter first, understood better.I think.
Take it at face value, indeed. There are a number of different visions recorded, described as such. It is not 'one continuous revelation.'

As for people at the time the visions were given, that is not necessarily the case, as some of the NT testament writers point out.
wensday

Brampton, Canada

#5 Dec 8, 2010
Uriah wrote:
Is it possible that Revelation is absolutely chronological from verse one to the last? It looks to me that it could very well be the case. John has ONE continual vision and never seems to really "come out of it".
I don't think it is one continuous vision given on the same day as an uninterrupted sequence of scenes. Considering the way it was given to Daniel, I think it might have been given over a period of time, one stage at a time, the later ones illuminating the earlier.

Secondly (and I think this is what you are talking about), I don't think it was to be interpreted as one sequence of events starting from alpha (Rev. 1:1) and ending with omega (Rev 22:21).

You can see in the 6th seal, Jesus Christ appears in the Second Advent. Nevertheless, a great many verses later in chapter 12, Jesus Christ is born and caught up to heaven.

What should come first? Shouldn't it be chapter 12 before chapter 6? Therefore, we know with absolute certainty that the interpretation is not of one sequence of events beginning from the first to the last verse of the book.
David Koot

Santa Rosa, CA

#8 Dec 8, 2010
wensday wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think it is one continuous vision given on the same day as an uninterrupted sequence of scenes. Considering the way it was given to Daniel, I think it might have been given over a period of time, one stage at a time, the later ones illuminating the earlier.
Secondly (and I think this is what you are talking about), I don't think it was to be interpreted as one sequence of events starting from alpha (Rev. 1:1) and ending with omega (Rev 22:21).
You can see in the 6th seal, Jesus Christ appears in the Second Advent. Nevertheless, a great many verses later in chapter 12, Jesus Christ is born and caught up to heaven.
What should come first? Shouldn't it be chapter 12 before chapter 6? Therefore, we know with absolute certainty that the interpretation is not of one sequence of events beginning from the first to the last verse of the book.
Good example, and good post.
General Lee

Atlanta, GA

#10 Dec 9, 2010
Veith and White says Rev is not chronological and both sisters are WRONG! No such thing in Bible as time when you will read the sins of others. What for? The only difference between the saved and the lost, who committed the same number of sins, 304k, is that the one group accepted the immediate, full forgiveness of Christ, and the other group did'nt,,,even if the only committed 10k sins.
David Koot

Santa Rosa, CA

#11 Dec 9, 2010
General Lee wrote:
Veith and White says Rev is not chronological and both sisters are WRONG! No such thing in Bible as time when you will read the sins of others. What for? The only difference between the saved and the lost, who committed the same number of sins, 304k, is that the one group accepted the immediate, full forgiveness of Christ, and the other group did'nt,,,even if the only committed 10k sins.
Why General Lee, here I did not know you were a theologian! Gen'l Jackson, of course, was a different story, but he has not commented here. By the way, not meaning to bring up a sensitive point, but I do wish you had taken Longstreet's advice the night before the final battle at Gettysburg. We had the Yankees whipped.

Now as for Revelation, indeed it is not chronological, and that is clear from even a cursory reading of the book.

I have the honor to be, SIR,
Your obedient servant,

A fellow soldier
General Lee

Smyrna, GA

#12 Dec 11, 2010
Stand down soldier and tell us WHEN a sinner is ACTUALLY forgiven? When he/she ASKS for forgiveness or only "when their names come up and some will be accepted and some rejected"?

Is there a difference between a hundred and a hundred THOUSAND sins? EGW says the more sins the longer you will burn.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#13 Dec 11, 2010
David Koot wrote:
Rev. is not absolutely chronological. There is a good bit of textual evidence that it is not
I would say that the evidence is overwhelming for multiple scenarios, such as in the parallel structure that is extremely obvious in A COMPARISON BETWEEN THE SEVEN LAST PLAGUES AND THE SEVEN TRUMPET JUDGMENTS:
http://www.everythingimportant.org/seventhday...
http://www.everythingimportant.org/SDA/viewto...

Since: Dec 10

Elyria, OH

#14 Dec 11, 2010
I believe that is VERY debatable. If you are a pre millennialists, then most likely the book of Revelation is chronological. If you look at Revelation 20 as presently occurring then it is historical and not chronological. I believe Revelation chapters 19 and 20 are chronological to each other.Revelation 19 pictures the glorious return of Christ to destroy evil and Revelation 20 deals with the binding of Satan and the first resurrection. The other chapters of Revelation are understood by SDA commentators to be historical. Therefore they may not be concurrent upon each other.Hope this helps.
David Koot

Santa Rosa, CA

#15 Dec 11, 2010
General Lee wrote:
Stand down soldier and tell us WHEN a sinner is ACTUALLY forgiven?
He/she is actually forgiven when he/she asks for forgiveness.

As for the IJ, both in the earthly type and in the heavenly antitype, the issue was reviewing the records to display if the person had asked for forgiveness or not.

Uriah

Smyrna, GA

#16 Dec 11, 2010
And who's business might it be to forgive or not forgive sinners? Why must an on-watching universe check up on God?
eric

United States

#17 Feb 7, 2013
As I understand it (from my own web searches to understand my spouse's SDA background), the IJ is unique to SDA theology and was derived from the Great Dissapointment of the Millerites because there had to be a "judgement" to claim fulfillment of the first angel of Rev. Chapter 14 where another SDA "exclusive" namely the "3 angels messege" is also extrapolated from. I also understand this has caused great controversy (and not the book so titled) within adventism ala Dr Ford, etc. I personally see little more credibility to this doctrine than Joseph Smiths additional "new reveation" from the "angel" Moroni and in fact it seems as well perilously close to the warnings of Rev. 22: 18.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#18 Feb 10, 2013
Uriah wrote:
Is it possible that Revelation is absolutely chronological from verse one to the last?
It's hard to believe. Revelation 12 says:

1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”

So who do you imagine this child might be?

To understand the structure of the book of Revelation, see
http://www.everythingimportant.org/SDA/viewto...
George Bush Jnr

Brampton, Canada

#19 Feb 10, 2013
Shubee wrote:
<quoted text>It's hard to believe. Revelation 12 says:
1 A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth. 3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. 4 Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”
So who do you imagine this child might be?
To understand the structure of the book of Revelation, see
http://www.everythingimportant.org/SDA/viewto...
Yoyo, according to the madness tormenting him day and night, adjudged the matter to be of Shubee when he was straining in the outhouse and the smell of it ascended outwards. Yoyo needs to wash his mouth with caustic soda.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Seventh-day Adventist Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
WHO wrote the TEN COMMANDMENTS...Father or Son? (Jan '11) 1 hr Earburner 19
Who is the Babylon of Revelation? (Oct '08) 1 hr SamBee 30
Sun made after the Earth 1 hr SamBee 55
God gave me a vision about worshiping Him in he... 1 hr Zog Has-fallen 25
Does sabbath day still exist 2 hr SamBee 553
Torah, Old Law and 10 Commandments. 6 hr Frindly 607
Who was Melchizedek 8 hr sitka happy 15
Why I Believe Ellen G. White was a Prophet (May '17) 11 hr Lay Worker 172
More from around the web