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birdman

Shelbyville, IL

#1 Nov 10, 2012
Atonement was at the Cross.

2 things had to happened.

1- A Lamb was needed, Christ became our Lamb, "Behold the Lamb of God" [John 1:29] For the wages of sin is death [Rom 6:23]

"Christ died for our sins" [1 Cor. 15:3]

It took the Death of Christ and the Shedding of his Blood, to pay the Complete Penalty of sin's debt.[Rev.1:5]

2- A Lamb was needed to shed the Blood for the Atonement. "It is the Blood that maketh an ATONEMENT for the Soul" [Lev.17:11

It was the animals blood that God looked upon the Mercy seat. This atoned/covered for the people's sins. This animal's blood was only representative of the Lamb of God[ Jesus] that would one day die on the Cross

"We have now received the Atonement" [Rom. 5:11] which shows us that Jesus' Blood was the Complete fulfillment of what the Old Testement ceremonial law showed.

"Having obtained eternal redemption for us" [Heb. 9:12}
Melchizedek

London, UK

#2 Nov 10, 2012
Are you suggesting that we are somehow off the hook?
Dennis

Yucaipa, CA

#3 Nov 10, 2012
Exactly who is it that makes atonement for the sins of the people (who are in the Kingdom of Heaven)? Was the transfer of sin accomplished by a lamb or a goat?

Now Moses diligently inquired about the goat of the sin offering, and behold, it was burned up! And he was angry with Eleazar and Ithamar, the surviving sons of Aaron, saying, (17)“Why have you not eaten the sin offering in the place of the sanctuary, since it is a thing most holy and has been given to you that you may bear the iniquity of the congregation, to make atonement for them before the LORD? (18) Behold, its blood was not brought into the inner part of the sanctuary. You certainly ought to have eaten it in the sanctuary, as I commanded.” Lev. 10:16-18.

Birdman said, "It took the Death of Christ and the Shedding of his Blood, to pay the Complete Penalty of sin's debt.[Rev.1:5]"

Rev. 1:5 does NOT say what Birdman says it does. This text simply identifies Jesus as the firstborn (of the Woman Rev.12:4), the 'faithful witness', and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#4 Nov 10, 2012
Jesus is soon to return and you all still are debating over what is true and what is not.

Matthew 25

31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
birdman

Shelbyville, IL

#5 Nov 10, 2012
Dennis wrote:
Exactly who is it that makes atonement for the sins of the people (who are in the Kingdom of Heaven)? Was the transfer of sin accomplished by a lamb or a goat?
Now Moses diligently inquired about the goat of the sin offering, and behold, it was burned up! And he was angry with Eleazar and Ithamar, the surviving sons of Aaron, saying, (17)“Why have you not eaten the sin offering in the place of the sanctuary, since it is a thing most holy and has been given to you that you may bear the iniquity of the congregation, to make atonement for them before the LORD? (18) Behold, its blood was not brought into the inner part of the sanctuary. You certainly ought to have eaten it in the sanctuary, as I commanded.” Lev. 10:16-18.
Birdman said, "It took the Death of Christ and the Shedding of his Blood, to pay the Complete Penalty of sin's debt.[Rev.1:5]"
Rev. 1:5 does NOT say what Birdman says it does. This text simply identifies Jesus as the firstborn (of the Woman Rev.12:4), the 'faithful witness', and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
INCORRECT, just like many they dont use the WHOLE VERSE. "Unto HIM WHO LOVED us, and WASHED US FROM OUR SINS IN HIS OWN BLOOD" is the reast of the verse!!!!!!
birdman

Shelbyville, IL

#6 Nov 10, 2012
anti-ALF chick wrote:
Jesus is soon to return and you all still are debating over what is true and what is not.
Matthew 25
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
IF ONE DOES NOT BELIEVE in the CROSS and what it means all else is NOTHING!

THESE VERSES that you quote ARE THE RESULT of the LAMB AND ATONEMENT
jimo

Molalla, OR

#7 Nov 10, 2012
birdman wrote:
Atonement was at the Cross.
2 things had to happened.
1- A Lamb was needed, Christ became our Lamb, "Behold the Lamb of God" [John 1:29] For the wages of sin is death [Rom 6:23]
"Christ died for our sins" [1 Cor. 15:3]
It took the Death of Christ and the Shedding of his Blood, to pay the Complete Penalty of sin's debt.[Rev.1:5]
2- A Lamb was needed to shed the Blood for the Atonement. "It is the Blood that maketh an ATONEMENT for the Soul" [Lev.17:11
It was the animals blood that God looked upon the Mercy seat. This atoned/covered for the people's sins. This animal's blood was only representative of the Lamb of God[ Jesus] that would one day die on the Cross
"We have now received the Atonement" [Rom. 5:11] which shows us that Jesus' Blood was the Complete fulfillment of what the Old Testement ceremonial law showed.
"Having obtained eternal redemption for us" [Heb. 9:12}
You say it's all done at the cross , what does that mean for us today ?
birdman

Shelbyville, IL

#8 Nov 10, 2012
jimo wrote:
<quoted text>
You say it's all done at the cross , what does that mean for us today ?
"He made Him who had no sin on OUR BEHALF, That WE might become the righteousness of God in him." 2 Cor.5:21

"He was delivered up BECAUSE of OUR transgressions and was raised because of our Justification" Rom.4:25

"For by Grace are you Saved through Faith" Eph.2:8

This is what it means to US.
Blackberry

Brampton, Canada

#9 Nov 10, 2012
birdman wrote:
<quoted text>
"He made Him who had no sin on OUR BEHALF, That WE might become the righteousness of God in him." 2 Cor.5:21
"He was delivered up BECAUSE of OUR transgressions and was raised because of our Justification" Rom.4:25
"For by Grace are you Saved through Faith" Eph.2:8
This is what it means to US.
Well said.

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#10 Nov 10, 2012
birdman wrote:
<quoted text>
IF ONE DOES NOT BELIEVE in the CROSS and what it means all else is NOTHING!
THESE VERSES that you quote ARE THE RESULT of the LAMB AND ATONEMENT
What is the matter with what I wrote? Are you annoyed with my comment?
birdman

Shelbyville, IL

#11 Nov 11, 2012
anti-ALF chick wrote:
<quoted text>
What is the matter with what I wrote? Are you annoyed with my comment?
Not at all. I was trying to show that all that you wrote was very good but was all a result of what Christ done.
Earburner

United States

#12 Nov 11, 2012
Hey Bird, Very good topic and scriptural support!!! Every professing christian should read, study and study again all of Rom. Ch. 5., especially verse 11. In order for us to receive the atonement now, we must receive Jesus and His finished work of His sacrifice of Himself on the cross. That act of receiving Him is accomplished in us only when we ASK for the free GIFT of His Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ. Its called being born again of His Spirit. In so doing we will have RECEIVED the atonement for our sins and the GIFT of righteousness in vs. 17.
Blackberry

Brampton, Canada

#13 Nov 11, 2012
Earburner wrote:
Hey Bird, Very good topic and scriptural support!!! Every professing christian should read, study and study again all of Rom. Ch. 5., especially verse 11. In order for us to receive the atonement now, we must receive Jesus and His finished work of His sacrifice of Himself on the cross. That act of receiving Him is accomplished in us only when we ASK for the free GIFT of His Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ. Its called being born again of His Spirit. In so doing we will have RECEIVED the atonement for our sins and the GIFT of righteousness in vs. 17.
Silly man!

The Holy Spirit of Luke 11:13 is not a spirit.
birdman

Shelbyville, IL

#14 Nov 11, 2012
Earburner wrote:
Hey Bird, Very good topic and scriptural support!!! Every professing christian should read, study and study again all of Rom. Ch. 5., especially verse 11. In order for us to receive the atonement now, we must receive Jesus and His finished work of His sacrifice of Himself on the cross. That act of receiving Him is accomplished in us only when we ASK for the free GIFT of His Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Christ. Its called being born again of His Spirit. In so doing we will have RECEIVED the atonement for our sins and the GIFT of righteousness in vs. 17.
Amen, that is the way I see it.
Earburner

United States

#15 Nov 11, 2012
Blackberry wrote:
<quoted text>
Silly man!
The Holy Spirit of Luke 11:13 is not a spirit.
John 14:15-26

Since: Aug 10

Pacific Northwest USA

#16 Nov 11, 2012
Melchizedek wrote:
Are you suggesting that we are somehow off the hook?
Either we are off the hook, or Jesus died for nothing!
CrazyApostateOld BagOnHook

Newton Center, MA

#17 Nov 11, 2012
in Your case it doesn't matter since you deny His word which says those who love Him keep his Ten C's, all Ten

Since: Aug 10

Pacific Northwest USA

#18 Nov 11, 2012
CrazyApostateOldBagOnHook wrote:
in Your case it doesn't matter since you deny His word which says those who love Him keep his Ten C's, all Ten
Oh yah, right! Please show us the text that says exactly this: "those who love Him keep his Ten C's, all Ten."
JesusWasNOTaJew GoogleIt

Newton Center, MA

#19 Nov 11, 2012
I didn't quote the Bible exactly, YOU put quotes on what I said as if I had!

John 14:15, 21, 23 and 1John 5:3
His way was the example of how the Father wishes His people live, and the Son Himself kept ALL TEN and never said any of them were done away with!

No one has debunked any of the '100 Facts On The Sabbath Question'
http://www.champs-of-truth.com/books/100facts...

"Troll not about spewing Lies and Apostasy but wake up from your HATEful idiocy"
-Hezekiah 3:16

Since: Aug 10

Pacific Northwest USA

#20 Nov 11, 2012
JesusWasNOTaJew GoogleIt wrote:
I didn't quote the Bible exactly, YOU put quotes on what I said as if I had!
John 14:15, 21, 23 and 1John 5:3
His way was the example of how the Father wishes His people live, and the Son Himself kept ALL TEN and never said any of them were done away with!
No one has debunked any of the '100 Facts On The Sabbath Question'
http://www.champs-of-truth.com/books/100facts...
"Troll not about spewing Lies and Apostasy but wake up from your HATEful idiocy"
-Hezekiah 3:16
I put quotes around it because I was quoting YOU, Mr. Intelligent! Go ahead and live under the law, with it's penalties and under its curse. You certainly have that choice.

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