Who Is Allah?

Who Is Allah?

There are 256599 comments on the The Brussels Journal story from Aug 24, 2007, titled Who Is Allah?. In it, The Brussels Journal reports that:

“Allah is a very beautiful word for God. Shouldn't we all say that from now on we will name God Allah? [...] What does God care what we call him?”

From the desk of Soeren Kern on Fri, 2007-08-24 11:56 Europeans love to mock the salience of religion in American society. via The Brussels Journal

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Brussels Journal.

MUQ

Bangalore, India

#191230 Oct 7, 2013
Eric wrote:
<quoted text>
Wait, there are still questions outstanding from the Tanakh to which you have not responded. This is not a one way debate. We can't go on to the New Testament while questions are unanswered.
So, let's discuss the requirement from Isaiah (whom you have quoted with approval) that the final prophet be of the seed of David and the shoot of Jesse. Does Muhammad fulfill these requirements?
I did quote seven prophesies from OT, which were about our prophet. And invited comments from readers.

It is not my intention to prove that ALL Prophesies in OT books are about our prophet.

I do not know what are you talking abut "Root of Jesse" and to whom it is applicable to.

What I mentioned is that Deut. 18:18 if about our prophet and he is "Most likely" candidate to fulfill almost every clause mentioned in that prophesy.

And this is not first time, that I discussed Deut. 18:18, this is second or third time.

Mr. Seeker starts with high spirits, but he looses interest if things are not going as per his likings.
Eric

Knoxville, TN

#191231 Oct 7, 2013
MUQ wrote:
<quoted text>
I did quote seven prophesies from OT, which were about our prophet. And invited comments from readers.
It is not my intention to prove that ALL Prophesies in OT books are about our prophet.
I do not know what are you talking abut "Root of Jesse" and to whom it is applicable to.
What I mentioned is that Deut. 18:18 if about our prophet and he is "Most likely" candidate to fulfill almost every clause mentioned in that prophesy.
And this is not first time, that I discussed Deut. 18:18, this is second or third time.
Mr. Seeker starts with high spirits, but he looses interest if things are not going as per his likings.
So, what you want to do is cherry pick just like the Christians. You want to only talk about the prophecies where Muhammad might fit, but ignore the prophecies that there is no way that Muhammad fits. And, you want Christians and Jews to ignore the scriptures that they believe and accept Muhammad as the final prophet. Even the Christians knew better than to try that stunt. The Christians at least added a whole book to the New Testament in an attempt to explain away the inconsistencies.

You are just like Seeker, then. You only want to talk about your points and ignore the points proffered by others. Not much of a debate. More like a lecture.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#191232 Oct 7, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>The distinction between the Jews being called the sons of God is that they are called sons of God for they are qualified under Gods Covenant to be heirs of the reward of being accepted into Gods Kingdom.
Jesus being God in human flesh is called the Son God in Jesus relation with God the Father.
The distinction is the Jews are called sons of God while Jesus is called "Son of God"
There is only one God - so even as we talk about the three persons of the trinity we are talking about one God.
All three persons of the trinity are God. If you want to look at some verses, you could look at Deuteronomy 6:4, Galatians 1:1, John 1:1-18, and Matthew 28:19.
* There is relationship in the trinity - the Son (Jesus) is obedient to the Father (Luke 22:42); the Holy Spirit is sent by the Father and the Son (John 16:15ff).
So the three persons of the trinity are the same God, but they are each distinct. They have different roles, but each action any member of the trinity might do is God’s action, regardless of who did it.
* We see this distinction / unity when Jesus identifies himself with the Father, saying that he and the Father ‘are one’(John 10:38, 17:11,21), and that he is in the Father and vice versa (John 14:11). Jesus does not say that he IS the Father, or that he and the Father are the SAME, but that they are ONE. So they are distinct, yet unified.
* Because Jesus and the Father are both one and distinct, we can say that God ‘sent his son into the world’-(John 3:16), and also that Jesus came into the world (1 Tim 1:15)- we are speaking about essentially the same action on the part of God, but on the one hand, God the Father sends, on the other, God the Son comes.
*We also see the distinction / unity at work when Jesus speaks about sending the Holy Spirit in John 16 - he describes this as both he and the Father coming (see John 16:23).
So the three persons of the trinity are distinct, but they are all God - they all share the same motivations and objectives. They are all co-eternal, they are all perfect.
God is Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - one God, existing in perfect relationship within himself. This is how God can be both Father and Son - because he just is!
NONE OF WHAT YOU STATE IS SUPPORTED BY JOHN 14!
And even the greek orthodox church does not support that position.
I suggest rereading the greek (the use of 'father' is an aramaism)text, where he allegedly (john never knew jesus in person)states that HE is not the same but a branch so to say.
Mind that we find no definite article in john 14 to suggest the holy spirit!!!
And furthermore it is Always thought that John wrote against an Alexandrian writer. Why else would he f.i. bring afore 'a thomas','a phillipos' or 'an iesous'.
All of those were in dispute!
So i have to find that piece of Original writing... if the church did not burn it!
Later translations have introduced changes and simplified the text.
Which is to me a form of lying. Christians nowadays are no longer using the Original text.

Please read again.
pg 9012
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/judaism/T...

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#191233 Oct 7, 2013
http://www.qbible.com/greek-new-testament/joh...

Just to help understanding along. ;/

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#191234 Oct 7, 2013
bmz wrote:
<quoted text>
Indeed. Thanks for a good note.
Many ancient manuscripts do not have many things, which the New Testament says. On top of that, the Church has no manuscripts of anything for the first four hundred years.
Here is something very interesting, which I have quoted a few times before but it is ignored and no one tries to refute it.
John Wycliffe did the first translation of the Christian Bible in the later part of the 14th Century and this is how he translated the opening line of John 1:1-2
"CAP 1
1 In the bigynnyng was the word, and the word was at God, and God was the word.
2 This was in the bigynnyng at God."
And one can see how BibleGateway has butchered his translation with the insertion within brackets:
John 1:1-2 Wycliffe Bible (WYC)
"1 In the beginning was the word, and the word was at God, and God was the word.
[In the beginning was the word, that is, God's Son, and the word was at God, and God was the word.]
2 This was in the beginning at God."
I am sure Wycliffe was reading the same manuscript, the one out of 5,000 acclaimed.
The 15th Century translations started a different version:
"John 1:1-2 New International Version (NIV)
The Word Became Flesh
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning."
This was done with the sole purpose to help 'the Word' become Flesh.
We all know this was a later thus spurious introduction.
Back to ye olde koine Original John:

John 1:1
In unto-a-firsting it-was the-one a-Forthee, and the-one a-Forthee it-was toward to-the-one to-a-Deity, and a-Deity it-was the-one a-Forthee.

John 1:2
The-one-this it-was in unto-a-firsting toward to-the-one to-a-Deity.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#191235 Oct 7, 2013
o (ho) logos- a Forthee-force
Looking at the lexiconcordance:

- 8 of 8 results for logos Go Back

----------

1.G0249 alogos alogos from G0001 as a negative particle and G3056 adj

2.G1351 dilogos dilogos from G1364 and G3056 v

3.G3056 logos logos from G3004 n m
...m His words and deeds A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 BC to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe This word was well suited to Johns purpose in John 1 From G3004 ...

4.G3151 mataiologos matahyologos from G3152 and G3004 n m

5.G4691 spermologos spermologos from G4690 and G3004 adj

6.G5378 Philologos filologos from G5384 and G3056 n pr m

7.G5573 pseudologos psyoodologos from G5571 and G3004 adj

8.G2222 zoe dzoay from G2198 n f
...ential and ethical which belongs to God and through him both to the hypostatic logos and to Christ in whom the logos put on human nature life real and genuine a life active and vigorous devoted to God blessed in the portion even in this wor...

----------
Result Page: 1

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#191236 Oct 7, 2013
So shamma keeps on bugging us with zoe dzoay.

lol

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#191238 Oct 7, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
NONE OF WHAT YOU STATE IS SUPPORTED BY JOHN 14!
And even the greek orthodox church does not support that position.
I suggest rereading the greek (the use of 'father' is an aramaism)text, where he allegedly (john never knew jesus in person)states that HE is not the same but a branch so to say.
Mind that we find no definite article in john 14 to suggest the holy spirit!!!
And furthermore it is Always thought that John wrote against an Alexandrian writer. Why else would he f.i. bring afore 'a thomas','a phillipos' or 'an iesous'.
All of those were in dispute!
So i have to find that piece of Original writing... if the church did not burn it!
Later translations have introduced changes and simplified the text.
Which is to me a form of lying. Christians nowadays are no longer using the Original text.
Please read again.
pg 9012
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/judaism/T...
YOUR POST DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL MATT!

THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD MATT!
And Jesus is explaining that on this text.

Jesus Matt is GOD IN THE HUMAN FLESH!

New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Comforts His Disciples

14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Jesus the Way to the Father

5 Thomas said to him,“Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered,“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

8 Philip said,“Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered:“Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say,‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit

15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said,“But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

23 Jesus replied,“Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#191240 Oct 7, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
We all know this was a later thus spurious introduction.
Back to ye olde koine Original John:
John 1:1
In unto-a-firsting it-was the-one a-Forthee, and the-one a-Forthee it-was toward to-the-one to-a-Deity, and a-Deity it-was the-one a-Forthee.
John 1:2
The-one-this it-was in unto-a-firsting toward to-the-one to-a-Deity.
YOU ARE LYING MATT!
YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!

IN JOHN 14 JESUS IS IDENTIFYING HIMSELF AS GOD IN THE HUMAN FLESH ON EARTH!

John 14

New International Version (NIV)


Jesus Comforts His Disciples

14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Jesus the Way to the Father

5 Thomas said to him,“Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered,“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know[b] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

8 Philip said,“Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered:“Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say,‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves. 12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit

15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said,“But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

23 Jesus replied,“Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#191241 Oct 7, 2013
CONTINUED:

John 14

New International Version (NIV)
Jesus Comforts His Disciples

28 “You heard me say,‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I. 29 I have told you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe. 30 I will not say much more to you, for the prince of this world is coming. He has no hold over me, 31 but he comes so that the world may learn that I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#191242 Oct 7, 2013
MAAT wrote:
o (ho) logos- a Forthee-force
Looking at the lexiconcordance:
- 8 of 8 results for logos Go Back
----------
1.G0249 alogos alogos from G0001 as a negative particle and G3056 adj
2.G1351 dilogos dilogos from G1364 and G3056 v
3.G3056 logos logos from G3004 n m
...m His words and deeds A Greek philosopher named Heraclitus first used the term Logos around 600 BC to designate the divine reason or plan which coordinates a changing universe This word was well suited to Johns purpose in John 1 From G3004 ...
4.G3151 mataiologos matahyologos from G3152 and G3004 n m
5.G4691 spermologos spermologos from G4690 and G3004 adj
6.G5378 Philologos filologos from G5384 and G3056 n pr m
7.G5573 pseudologos psyoodologos from G5571 and G3004 adj
8.G2222 zoe dzoay from G2198 n f
...ential and ethical which belongs to God and through him both to the hypostatic logos and to Christ in whom the logos put on human nature life real and genuine a life active and vigorous devoted to God blessed in the portion even in this wor...
----------
Result Page: 1
YOUR POST DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE AT ALL MATT!

THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD MATT!
And Jesus is explaining that on this text.

Jesus Matt is GOD IN THE HUMAN FLESH!

New International Version (NIV)

Jesus Comforts His Disciples

14 “Do not let your hearts be troubled. You believe in God[a]; believe also in me. 2 My Father’s house has many rooms; if that were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4 You know the way to the place where I am going.”

Jesus the Way to the Father

5 Thomas said to him,“Lord, we don’t know where you are going, so how can we know the way?”

6 Jesus answered,“I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”

8 Philip said,“Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered:“Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say,‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
11 Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the works themselves.

12 Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13 And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

Jesus Promises the Holy Spirit

15 “If you love me, keep my commands. 16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be[c] in you. 18 I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you. 21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me. The one who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love them and show myself to them.”

22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said,“But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#191243 Oct 7, 2013
MAAT wrote:
<quoted text>
We all know this was a later thus spurious introduction.
Back to ye olde koine Original John:
John 1:1
In unto-a-firsting it-was the-one a-Forthee, and the-one a-Forthee it-was toward to-the-one to-a-Deity, and a-Deity it-was the-one a-Forthee.
John 1:2
The-one-this it-was in unto-a-firsting toward to-the-one to-a-Deity.
CONTINUED:
THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD MATT!
JESUS IS GOD IN THE HUMAN FLESH ON EARTH!

23 Jesus replied,“Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

25 “All this I have spoken while still with you. 26 But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. 27 Peace I leave with you; my peace I give you. I do not give to you as the world gives. Do not let your hearts be troubled and do not be afraid.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#191244 Oct 7, 2013
http://www.qbible.com/greek-new-testament/joh...

17:8

john 16 is interesting to, as far as 'the holy spirit' are either indeed the thoughts of the ones now dead( forefathers) or jesus telling the diciples that messages will come from the cosmos.
Stargazing?

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#191245 Oct 7, 2013
John 17:8 in Original greek the oldest bible.
Not making sense, Shamma?
That just proofs that religion was imposed from above and the bible not meant to be read by simple folk.
iesous by the way=simple man.

deut 6:4 hear o israel the lord our god is one god

For some odd reason christians connect above verse (the shema) to john 17:8

Modern John 17:8
for i have given unto them the words which thou gavest me and they have received them and have known surely that i can ...

John 17:8
to-which-a-one to-the-ones to-utterings-to to-which thou-gave unto-me I-had-come-to-give unto-them, and them they-had-taken and they-had-acquainted unto-un-secluded to-which-a-one beside of-THEE I-had-came-out, and they-trusted-of to-which-a-one thou to-me thou-set-off.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#191246 Oct 7, 2013
MAAT wrote:
http://www.qbible.com/greek-ne w-testament/john/17.html
17:8
john 16 is interesting to, as far as 'the holy spirit' are either indeed the thoughts of the ones now dead( forefathers) or jesus telling the diciples that messages will come from the cosmos.
Stargazing?
The Incarnation: Why did God become Man?

by Dr Jonathan D Sarfati

Published: 23 December 2010(GMT+10)

This is the pre-publication version which was subsequently revised to appear in Creation 35(1):34–37.

Abstract

Jesus’ existence didn’t begin with His birth or conception, but pre-existed Creation, as made by Him and for Him. Jesus was both with God and God Himself. That such a divine Person exists is taught throughout Scripture, starting in Genesis. The plurality within the Godhead makes it possible for God to be intrinsically a ‘God of Love’.

In Jesus, God took on human nature, so He could die for our sins as a fellow human, taking the penalty we deserve for our sins. In fact, this was planned from Eternity, as the names of the Redeemed were already written in His Book of Life from the foundation of the World.

When Jesus took on humanity, this was an addition to His divine nature, not a subtraction of His divinity. Thus everything He taught, He taught with authority—including about Creation and the Flood.

----------

Illustration by Caleb Salisbury

CMI sends all our fans best Christmas wishes. But why should a creationist organization even care?

It comes down to the most important thing: the identity of our Creator. In our Statement of Faith, we state:

(A) PRIORITIES
1.The scientific aspects of creation are important, but are secondary in importance to the proclamation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ as Sovereign, Creator, Redeemer and Judge.
2.The doctrines of Creator and Creation cannot ultimately be divorced from the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

As we showed in our previous article Christmas and Genesis (which we recommend reading before this one):

One whose birth is celebrated at Christmas was none other than the One who brought the whole universe into existence! Our Creator took on the nature of one of His creatures, a helpless infant.

The reasons these doctrines are even more important than creation is that the Bible provides at least two key concepts that were in operation even “before”1 the Creation of the world, let alone Jesus’ birth. The biblical teachings are impossible to understand without these.

1. Jesus pre-existed Creation

In Genesis 1:1, we read,“In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.” But this wasn’t the first thing. John 1:1 follows Genesis in starting with “In the beginning”: the Greek copies the Septuagint2 translation of Genesis: &#7960;&#957; &#7936;&#961;&#967 ;&#8135;(en arch&#275;), but then it diverges from Genesis. The creation of the universe isn’t mentioned until v. 3.

One whose birth is celebrated at Christmas was none other than the One who brought the whole universe into existence! Our Creator took on the nature of one of His creatures, a helpless infant.

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#191247 Oct 7, 2013
PNEUMA would be the word used in greek john.
http://lexiconcordance.com/greek/4151.html
HughBe

Kingston, Jamaica

#191248 Oct 7, 2013
MAAT wrote:
John 17:8 in Original greek the oldest bible.
Not making sense, Shamma?
That just proofs that religion was imposed from above and the bible not meant to be read by simple folk.
iesous by the way=simple man.
deut 6:4 hear o israel the lord our god is one god
For some odd reason christians connect above verse (the shema) to john 17:8
Modern John 17:8
for i have given unto them the words which thou gavest me and they have received them and have known surely that i can ...
John 17:8
to-which-a-one to-the-ones to-utterings-to to-which thou-gave unto-me I-had-come-to-give unto-them, and them they-had-taken and they-had-acquainted unto-un-secluded to-which-a-one beside of-THEE I-had-came-out, and they-trusted-of to-which-a-one thou to-me thou-set-off.
It is good to see you Maat.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#191249 Oct 7, 2013
CONTINUED:
The Incarnation: Why did God become Man?

The reasons these doctrines are even more important than creation is that the Bible provides at least two key concepts that were in operation even “before”1 the Creation of the world, let alone Jesus’ birth. The biblical teachings are impossible to understand without these.

1. Jesus pre-existed Creation

In Genesis 1:1, we read,“In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.” But this wasn’t the first thing. John 1:1 follows Genesis in starting with “In the beginning”: the Greek copies the Septuagint2 translation of Genesis: &#7960;&#957; &#7936;&#961;&#967 ;&#8135;(en arch&#275;), but then it diverges from Genesis. The creation of the universe isn’t mentioned until v. 3.

One whose birth is celebrated at Christmas was none other than the One who brought the whole universe into existence! Our Creator took on the nature of one of His creatures, a helpless infant.

In between, we are told that a Person described as the Word (Greek &#955;&#8057;&#947 ;&#959;&#962; logos; Hebrew memra—see discussion3) was both with God as well as God himself. V. 3 tells us that this Person, the Word, was the One by whom all things were created.

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2He was with God in the beginning. 3Through Him all things were made, and without him nothing was made that has been made.

This Word is also called God the Son—in Hebrews 1:8, God Himself addresses “the Son” as “God”. To back up “the Word was God” in John 1:1, the Son likewise has all the attributes of Deity (Colossians 1:15–20, Philippians 2, Hebrews 1:3).

The God of Love

The plurality in the Godhead is vital for understanding the biblical teaching,“God is love”(1 John 4:8, 16). A Unitarian God, such as Islam’s Allah, could not be a God of Love in his nature, since by definition love requires another person to be the recipient. Allah might conceivably be able to love after he created, but that would make love contingent on creation, not an intrinsic property of Allah.

But with the true God of the Bible, the love between God the Father and God the Son has always existed, even before creation. Furthermore, the Bible reveals a third person who is God, the Holy Spirit. This enables an even more perfect love that includes not only individual love, but collective love. This is the sort that should occur in a family, where the husband and wife love not only each other, but combine their love towards their child.

Genesis teaching on the plurality of the Godhead

As we have often taught, Genesis is the seedbed of Christian doctrine. This includes the teaching of the Trinity: one God in three Persons. While the overt doctrine of the Trinity is not taught, the plurality of the Godhead is, and the New Testament provided a fuller revelation. Meanwhile, even before then, as N.T. Wright points out:

The oneness of Israel’s god, the creator, was never an analysis of this god’s inner existence, but always a polemic against paganism and dualism.—N.T. Wright

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#191250 Oct 7, 2013
CONTINUED:
The Incarnation: Why did God become Man?

In this context it is vital for our purposes that we stress one fact. Within the most fiercely monotheistic of Jewish circles throughout our period—from the Maccabaean revolt[4] to Bar-Kochba[5]—there is no suggestion that “monotheism” or praying the Shema, had anything to do with the numerical analysis of the inner being of Israel’s god himself. It had everything to do with the two-pronged fight against paganism and dualism. Indeed, we find strong evidence during this period of Jewish groups and individuals, who, speculating on the meaning of some difficult passages of scripture (Daniel 7, for example, or Genesis 1), suggested that the divine being might encompass a plurality. Philo could speculate about the Logos as, effectively, a second divine being; the Similitudes of Enoch might portray the Son of Man/Messiah as an eternal divine being; but none of these show any awareness that they are transgressing normal Jewish monotheism. Nor are they. The oneness of Israel’s god, the creator, was never an analysis of this god’s inner existence, but always a polemic against paganism and dualism.6

Even in the first verse of the Hebrew Bible, we see the beginnings of this doctrine: the word for God is the plural form&#1488;&#1457; &#1500;&#1465;&#14 92;&#1460;&#1497;& #1501;Elohîm, yet the verb “created” is the singular form &#1489;&#1468;&#14 64;&#1512;&#1464;& #1488; b&#257;r&#257;’, not the plural form baru.

The Christophany to Abraham

Later on, Genesis reveals a curious incident, where God appears to the man He chose to be the Father of the Messianic People, Abraham, in Genesis 18–19. Genesis 18:1 explicitly tells us that YHWH/Yahweh/Jehovah (the LORD) appeared to Abraham, but what Abraham actually saw at first was three men (18:2). Yet these were evidently of such awe-inspiring appearance that Abraham bowed to them. Similarly, Mark’s Gospel describes an angel at Jesus’ tomb as a “man”, and again with an awesome appearance that at first alarmed the women who were the first at the tomb.

We see in Genesis 19:24 that ‘the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the LORD out of the heavens.’ That is, there was a Jehovah on Earth raining down fire from Jehovah in heaven, pointing to two distinct Persons with the divine name.

Later, we see that one of these “men” is the spokesman for the three, and described as the LORD in 18:13. The other two are just angels, and they are dispatched to Sodom (18:22–). The LORD remains with Abraham, and Abraham pleads for the city since his nephew Lot and his family were there. Yet although even 10 righteous people would have been enough to spare the city, such were not to be found. Thus Lot needed to be rescued.(Incidentally, this is one of many arguments against the local flood compromise—why didn’t God tell Noah to move to another part of the world that wasn’t flooded, given that Lot just had to leave the cities to be destroyed?)

““You must not lose faith ”

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#191251 Oct 7, 2013
Shamma wrote:
<quoted text>22 Then Judas (not Judas Iscariot) said,“But, Lord, why do you intend to show yourself to us and not to the world?”
23 Jesus replied,“Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them. 24 Anyone who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.
JN 25
A-Father Course-belonged, and the-one a-configuration to-thee not it-had-acquainted; I moreover to-thee I-had-acquainted, and the-ones-these they-had-acquainted to-which-a-one thou to-me thou-set-off,



Jn 14:26
and I-acquainted-to unto-them to-the-one to-a-name of-thee and I-shall-acquaint-to, so the-one an-excessing-off to-which thou-excessed-off-unto to-me in unto-them it-might-be and-I in unto-them.

Just think about what jesus had as message-statement:
to bring the jewish faith to those jewish people that had lost touch with it.

Right!

So we can not suddenly have a totally new religion with alien ideas.

Agree?

So some corruption must have crept in.
With comforter pneuma might as well be meant, the memory of what a person said after they have died.

Usually in judaism the parakletos pneuma would be reflected in the Torah.

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